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View Full Version : Is Qantas Management waging psychological warfare on its staff?


blow.n.gasket
17th Dec 2009, 09:42
Psychological Warfare:
"The planned use of propaganda and other psychological actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior of hostile groups in such a way as to support the desired objectives."

So in short I would say yes!

Have a look at the Engineers dispute, the company purportedly spent some $200million fighting the Engineers “industrial campaign” that if they had paid what the engineers wanted would have cost the company a mere million or two. Why would the Director of a public Company squander shareholder value to such an extent?
I’d say there was an agenda here. Wouldn’t be a form of conditioned learning would it?
'conditional learning', is where someone is conditioned to behave in a particular way by rewards and punishments ,such as Ivan Pavlov, famous 'conditioned reflex' experiments with dogs.
The brain is one big associative-memory system. After 2 things have been memorised as associated, thinking of one thing triggers thoughts of the other. You might learn associations that protect you from harm, such as one electric shock making you steer clear of live wires in future or they might be irrational/exagerated associations leading to phobias. They can also be unhelpful associations like 'food = comfort' leading to over-eating .
So can’t allow the unions to think they have a chance, hit them hard and hit them continuously until they are conditioned to think nothing can be done and they stop resisting the companys plans.Habitual Learning through systematic desensitisation.
Reduction of an animal's behavioral response to a stimulus, as a result of a lack of reinforcement during continual exposure to the stimulus. Habituation is usually considered a form of learning in which behaviours not needed are eliminated. It may be separated from most other forms of decreased response on the basis of permanence; the habituated animal either does not resume its earlier reaction to the stimulus after a period of no stimulus, or, if the normal reaction is resumed on reexposure to the stimulus, it wanes more quickly than before.
Or as I would call it ,the "Borg syndrome", make 'em think resistence is futile!

I believe this sometimes leads to what is called an extinction burst.
An extinction burst will often occur when an extinction procedure has just begun. This consists of a sudden and temporary increase in the response's frequency , followed by the eventual decline and extinction of the behavior targeted for elimination. Take, as an example, a pigeon that has been reinforced to peck an electronic button. During its training history, every time the pigeon pecked the button, it will have received a small amount of bird seed as a reinforcer. So, whenever the bird is hungry, it will peck the button to receive food. However, if the button were to be turned off, the hungry pigeon will first try pecking the button just as it has in the past. When no food is forthcoming, the bird will likely try again... and again, and again. After a period of frantic activity, in which their pecking behavior yields no result, the pigeon's pecking will decrease in frequency.
The evolutionary advantage of this extinction burst is clear. In a natural environment, an animal that persists in a learned behavior, despite not resulting in immediate reinforcement, might still have a chance of producing reinforcing consequences if they try again. This animal would be at an advantage over another animal that gives up too easily.
Is this what Qantas Pilots are presently seeing happening to their Union, AIPA extinction?
Let us say hypothetically n old President is ousted by a non-management type President, a President who can see the writing on the wall and wishs to take the fight to the company before all is lost.This particular President tries to muster every arsenal at his disposal to attack the “barbarians at the gate”.Like the Engineers the Company has no qualms in spending millions of dollars to thwart this upstart.The company even manages to turn loyal lieutenants against him, adding to the Presidents downward spiral in popularity.
People on his committee openly slander him and begin to white ant him, through openly attacking from the inside at every opportunity and on every available forum possible.They attempt to stop every action he takes even if it is of vital importance to the professional cause, and then take great glee in announcing that he is a dead duck President because none of his plans work. They start to politically proclaim it’s time for a change.
The Company works in unison, they renege on agreement such as allowances and standards of Hotel accomodation.Rank and file members start to question what is going on. Let’s face it ,if you sling enough mud some of it is going to stick. The President concerned, attempts even more audacious actions to justify his stance and to advance the interests of the members, until the final inglorious coup de grace.
The new President comes to power and immediately the company proclaims a new era of engagement and cooperation. Allowances are restored and Hotel accomodation is returned to past standards and yet the new President sounds very much like the old President whereby there is much talk yet very little walk.
Was this AIPA’s extinction burst?

Looks to me like Qantas Management may have read the following book as well.

The Thirty Six Strategies

A Unique Collection of Ancient Chinese Proverbs

The Thirty Six Strategies are a unique collection of ancient Chinese proverbs that describe some of the most cunning and subtle strategies ever devised by man.

Six Winning Strategies (http://www.easy-strategy.com/winning-strategies.html)
1. Deceive the sky to cross the ocean.

Moving about in the darkness and shadows, occupying isolated places, or hiding behind screens will only attract suspicious attention.
Six Confrontation Strategies (http://www.easy-strategy.com/confrontation-strategies.html)
7. Create something from nothing.

You use the same feint twice. Having reacted to the first and often the second feint as well, the enemy will be hesitant to react to a third feint. Therefore the third feint is the actual attack catching your enemy with his guard down.
Six Attack Strategies (http://www.easy-strategy.com/attack-strategies.html)
13. Startle the snake by hitting the grass around it.

When preparing for battle, do not alert your enemy to your intentions or give away your strategy prematurely.
Six Chaos Strategies (http://www.easy-strategy.com/chaos-strategies.html)
19. Remove the firewood under the cooking pot.

When faced with an enemy too powerful to engage directly you must first weaken him by undermining his foundation and attacking his source of power.
Six Advance Strategies (http://www.easy-strategy.com/advance-strategies.html)
25. Replace the beams with rotten timbers.

Disrupt the enemy's formations, interfere with their methods of operations, change the rules in which they are used to following, go contrary to their standard training.
Six Desperate Situations Strategies (http://www.easy-strategy.com/desperate-situations-strategies.html)
31. The honey trap.

Send your enemy beautiful women to cause discord within his camp. This strategy can work on three levels. First, the ruler becomes so enamoured with the beauty that he neglects his duties and allows his vigilance to wane.

QF94
17th Dec 2009, 10:31
Psychological Warfare:
"The planned use of propaganda and other psychological actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior of hostile groups in such a way as to support the desired objectives."

Blow n gasket, I couldn't agree more. Maybe to summarise what you said in your post, this is what is meant:

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." JFK

rmcdonal
17th Dec 2009, 20:18
31. The honey trap.

Send your enemy beautiful women to cause discord within his camp.

I'm waiting. :ok::}:E

Oriana
17th Dec 2009, 23:58
Nice post Gasket - well done!:ok::ok::ok:

You're making real progress ! That's one whole post where you didn't bag out Jetstar!:D

Remember 'every great journey starts with a small step'.:E

gobbledock
18th Dec 2009, 10:27
In 1720, Isaac Newton made the following statement :
" I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies,but not the madness of people"
Perhaps he could foretell the futute also, and was referring to QF Management ?

mohikan
18th Dec 2009, 22:29
Good Thread Gasket.

When you read the email sent out by the AIPA Vice President yesterday, there can be no doubt that Qantas is attempting to condition its pilot workforce prior to attempting a major industrial move.

Qantas management refuses to open negotiations on EBA 9, even though the interim arrangement is about to expire.

Qantas management will make redundant mainline pilots of the B747-400 this year, even though Jetstar is hiring flat out and there is an extant MOU that would allow for the transfer of trained, internally quality assured labour within the group.

Qantas management refuses to consider alternative solutions to the surpluses, such as voluntary redundancy, or enhanced leave without pay provisions.

Collectively, the behaviour doesnt make sense. The mainline operation is overmanned due to the transfer of flying to JQ and Jetconnect. This is only set to accelerate as QF mainline dies the slow death that Joyce / Clifford are planning for it.

Mechanisms to deal with this structural, strategic and permanent pilot surplus have been proposed in good faith by AIPA. You have to ask your self therefore - what is the reason Qantas Management refuses to negotiate on this issue ????

73to91
18th Dec 2009, 23:27
A few months ago, I spoke to a guy who use to work for me, he left his job to work for QANTAS, he said, in his opinion, it was the chance of a life time, his older brother was a former engineer and he just wanted to work for QANTAS.

I asked him how it, QANTAS, was and he simple said, 'I left, the worst place I have ever worked and the worst manager that I have ever had.' I asked a few questions and he stated things like,
- manager was simply a bully,
- manager treated her new staff worst then the older ones and that was because the older ones simple knew more and ran ring around this newly graduated manager,
- new ones were told that they had to work back till at least 22:00 'because we are busy' no 'are you able to; or would it be possible to stay back a while, please?' (OK, no comments about working until 10, this was a Finance Dept job, and basically it's the 8 hours a day jobs that some people work).

Point is, I believe that this is happening at QANTAS - I catch up each December with other x staff and with some guys who are still there - a few of the former staff have said that they'd love to go back until we hear what the current staff say - and it all comes back to the 1st post.

Cheers

BrissySparkyCoit
19th Dec 2009, 03:00
It is very sad. I attempted to pay some attention to our manager at a meeting yesterday but quite frankly, I am one of the 30% of staff that is completely disengaged. I no longer wish to get involved in anything outside my primary job function which is to maintain aircraft.

Wind the clock back 10 years and it was a much better place to work. No BS about unit costs, LTIFR's, no moving forwards, no drawing lines in the sand, blah blah blah. 747 D checks were done in half the time it takes us to do a 767 C check.
Leave was rarely rejected. People rarely left and when they did, it was almost always an internal transfer. (try doing that now and there will be retribution for daring to transfer internally)

Oh, and we had flexibility back then.....only it was a two way street in those days.

Back then we had support when and where it was needed to get the job done to a HIGH STANDARD and on time. No brick walls. Very few irrelevant questions asked. Those days seem to be gone.

Is it any wonder that 30% of staff are disengaged.

Respect is earnt, it is not a given. It works both ways. When you are a leader, you need to set an example.

Perhaps their aim is to wear us down until we leave Qantas altogether without redundancy?

DEFCON4
19th Dec 2009, 04:10
Introduce a new roster system over Christmas.
Why couldnt the current system be maintained for one more month?
Q.What message does this send to employees?
A.Qantas is a business.Too bad about the work/life balance
Over all sentiment:If you dont like it....leave

BrissySparkyCoit
19th Dec 2009, 05:05
If you dont like it....leaveThis is all well and good if you are a manager who spends a few years in a company, messes things up, disengages staff then shoots through to another company with a pat on his back and an obscene amount of money. (or to some country town to sit in his own pub).Unfortunately, for the majority of us, we have many years of service under our belts. It aint that easy to leave.

Managers like to tell us that those who are disengaged are just unable to accept change and change is the only way to "move forward". Where I work, I have seen certain old work practices rejected from day one of operations only to be implimented after a year or two. It's frustrating to see a workplace turned upside down for changes sake with no real improvement in 1) Quality 2) Efficiency 3) Support (or in fact, to see these things go backwards!) Meanwhile those responsible high five each other and tell us what a great job they are doing.

Yes, if we don't like it, we can very well leave.

It's just sad to watch things going backwards.(rather than"moving forward")

QF94
19th Dec 2009, 11:45
Managers like to tell us that those who are disengaged are just unable to accept change and change is the only way to "move forward". Where I work, I have seen certain old work practices rejected from day one of operations only to be implimented after a year or two. It's frustrating to see a workplace turned upside down for changes sake with no real improvement in 1) Quality 2) Efficiency 3) Support (or in fact, to see these things go backwards!) Meanwhile those responsible high five each other and tell us what a great job they are doing.

Brissysparkycolt, you hit the nail on the head. You may very well recall in the great LAME battle of '08, how the LAME's were asking for a piddly 5% and the management simply said NO and dug their heels in. It cost them (what they're willing to admit) $150M and put the blame squarely on the LAME's. This is the bloody mindedness of management to save face at any cost.

As a Line LAME in SYD, no matter who I talk to, Pilots, cabin crew, check-in, cleaners, toilet dump guy, baggage handlers, catering, everyone says the same thing. They're short-staffed, managers are unapproachable, and always have a threat that if the game isn't lifted, that the work will be outsourced, or that contract casual staff are coming in and eroding the workplace. The current management is no different to the previous circus clowns that almost sold the company from underneath us. It's the same game, but with different players.

All we can hope for is that something will give, and give these alleged managers one almighty shake and wake them up from their coma. That is how they're running QANTAS. In a comatose state with no regard or accountability for what they're doing.

Sunfish
19th Dec 2009, 19:50
I've explained about narcissists in management before.

Qantas must be full of them.

It's no conspiracy.

Narcissists in management just don't think about anyone but themselves and those above them.

You guys down below just don't matter, they think of you as talking dogs, nothing else.

The concept that you might have feelings and would like a little encouragement and feedback is simply alien to them, as it is to all narcissists.



It's not a conspiracy, you just don't matter to them.

BrissySparkyCoit
20th Dec 2009, 00:40
...talk to, Pilots, cabin crew, check-in, cleaners, toilet dump guy, baggage handlers, catering, everyone says the same thing. They're short-staffed, managers are unapproachable, and always have a threat that if the game isn't lifted, that the work will be outsourced, or that contract casual staff are coming in and eroding the workplace.

I had a conversation with some domestic check in staff while waiting for a plane once and was surprised that they were dealing with the same issues as engineering. As you said, lack of staff, threats etc.

From what I have heard, as far as outsourcing heavy maintenance goes, we are still the best value for money option. So you would think there would be no need to consider sending A330's offshore? No need to bully the workforce into accepting flexibilities that the workforce were already willing to participate in voluntarily without shoving into an EBA (people changed shifts to accommodate 737 checks without needing it writing). Accept this or we are gone in 5 years time. BULLYING!

The bullies will lead us to believe that accepting the one way flexibilities brought the 330's to us. It didn't. The fact that we are the best value option brought them. It was merely an exercise is bullying the workforce.

It's all about pushing the work force around and treating them like dogs as Sunfish put it.

breakfastburrito
20th Dec 2009, 04:33
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice.
Hanlon's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor)

blown, I like you logic, however I think Sunfish's explanation is more likely.
For you theory to work, it implies some sort of careful, meticulous planning. Management are simply not capable of operating at this level.

Exhibit A: Clumsy AIPA office break-in, gross stupidity in the extreme.

packrat
20th Dec 2009, 06:17
Sunfish is right.
There are enough narcissists remaining in QF management to maintain the narcissist culture.Even after Old Scrotum Face left
Cabin Services introduced a new rostering system.Fair Enough.Then they played with it fully aware of the results.Chaos and resultant anger.
It displayed what Sunfish spoke of....Total indifference to employees.
Feedback from pax indicate a very high rate of service satisfaction.
On the other hand recent staff survey results indicate a CC so disengaged that it borders on being a danger to the business.
The results are being withheld to protect the stupid ,the incompetent and the guilty.
Wonder if AJ gets to see them ?

QF94
20th Dec 2009, 12:29
On the other hand recent staff survey results indicate a CC so disengaged that it borders on being a danger to the business.
The results are being withheld to protect the stupid ,the incompetent and the guilty.
Wonder if AJ gets to see them ?

Unfortunately, with the numerous levels of management, it is like a multi-level filtration system. The raw material (information) is filtered at the lower levels and only the favourable information makes its way to the top, so when AJ gets to look at it, all he sees is On Time Performance steadily getting better, customer satisfaction is at an all time high and reliability of the aircraft is improving.

He'll be left to ask what's with the employees? His subordinates will tell him that they're a greedy bunch of nuisances and don't appreciate what the company is doing for them. Heaven forbid a manager tell his/her boss the truth. That could affect some serious bonuses and make them look not so good and jeopardise their position within the ranks.

Meanwhile the company is limping on one engine out of four, descending to earth at a rapid rate of knots with all the staff doing their utmost to keep it in the air.

Sunfish
20th Dec 2009, 14:43
Packrat:

The results are being withheld to protect the stupid ,the incompetent and the guilty.
Wonder if AJ gets to see them ?

Spoken like a true rational human being Packrat.

By implication, you are apparently suggesting that were Mr. Joyce aware of the true situation and lack of engagement of his staff, then he would draw the conclusion that this was a less than optimum result with long term negative consequences for the business, and then take corrective action, probably by firing the managers responsible.

However, I have to rain on your parade and douse your fond hopes.

We already know what the Chairman of the Board thinks. His comments regarding the Engineering EBA are on record. Those comments imply that either he is woefully misinformed, or he is like the rest, believing that the sun shines out of the Board and Senior managements fundament.

I'm afraid I tend to the latter view and think it more likely that all Senior management from the very top down, including Mr. Joyce, have similar character traits and no empathy with staff whatsoever because I can tell you from my own experience that no one but another narcissist will work for any length of time for a narcissistic boss, it's just too hard. Constant upwards backside licking is necessary to avoid being replaced or fired and good people will not put up with that.

My expectation would be that staff disengagement would be seen as beneficial as the Board and Senior management, aided at great expense by BCG no doubt, continues on what it sees as its mission of "business transformation" (or whatever the current buzzword is) - destroying the "Old Legacy High Cost Qantas Culture" - and replacing it with something young, vibrant, cheap and sexy.

Disengaged people eventually leave - saving the company redundancy costs, and there is an endless procession of pilot wannabees and girls who think that being a Qantas flight attendant is a good career move.

The studied, barely concealed, contempt for the existing staff is not a deliberate policy, but it makes the managers feel good and leverages a little staff turnover, so it's not something they are concerned about, right?

I know the secret to building a great workforce, and unfortunately this isn't it.

surfside6
20th Dec 2009, 23:12
Sick Leave Burn.
The whole thing is a black joke and is treated accordingly.
Leave when ready not because you are fed up

fishers.ghost
22nd Dec 2009, 07:19
Posted by Pegasus 747 from another Thread

Uniform standards over Christmas
--------------------------------

A friendly reminder that our uniform standards remain unchanged throughout the festive season as per the Runway Guide. This
includes not wearing any type of Christmas decoration with your uniform.

Terry Higgins
Acting Manager Service Standards and Performance

Not only do these mental giants stuff up the Xmas rosters but they cancel XMAS cheer for those of us actually working.....Brilliant!!

BrissySparkyCoit
22nd Dec 2009, 13:38
wouldn't it be great if a copy of this letter was left in a few seat pockets on christmas day flights. The average joe mite get some perspective on why staff always seem to be pi$$ed off.

Sunfish
22nd Dec 2009, 18:28
A friendly reminder that our uniform standards remain unchanged throughout the festive season as per the Runway Guide. This
includes not wearing any type of Christmas decoration with your uniform.

How sad, One of the consolations of the mad dash from Melbourne to Sydney and the CYC on Christmas day afternoon used to be the odd shapely flight attendant with elves hat and Christmas decoration ear rings.

QF94
23rd Dec 2009, 05:20
How sad, One of the consolations of the mad dash from Melbourne to Sydney and the CYC on Christmas day afternoon used to be the odd shapely flight attendant with elves hat and Christmas decoration ear rings.

How sad indeed. The odd shapely flight attendant is now replaced by a gruff grinch, greeting the passengers on Christmas Day with a Bah Humbug!

Welcome to QANTAS 2009 and beyond.

I wonder what the 90th birthday year of QANTAS will hold and how it will be celebrated.

Anyway, to all those posters on pprune, you all have yourselves a very merry and safe Christmas and we'll see you all back in 2010.

Cheers

Keg
23rd Dec 2009, 05:51
What a joke! I'm not working on Christmas day this year thanks to the downturn and long service leave but I did have my Santa suit ready to go. I was going to operate the entire day dressed as Santa. I'd even put a spare set of wings and rank slides on the suit. Getting a revised ASIC to include my white beard was going to be the hard part!

I would think anyone flying on Christmas day would think it strange if the crew didn't acknowledge Christmas in some way! I think not having anything Christmasy on the crew will detract from public perception more than ensuring everyone has their oneworld badge on the correct side of their uniform! :ugh:

Tankengine
23rd Dec 2009, 07:17
I'm working - with Chrissie Tie and hat!:ok:
"They'' can get stuffed!:E

surfside6
24th Dec 2009, 02:19
We're looking for additional crew - can you help?
-------------------------------------------------

Due to resources becoming increasingly tight over the past few days, if you're willing to work on 24 and 25 December 2009
or any other days, please call Operations. If you're on Annual or Long Service Leave you may elect to have your leave
recredited.

Best wishes for the festive season and I look forward to working with you in the coming year.


Nicholas Bull
Base Manager, Sydney International