How to avoid school tricks

[agnni]

Hi guys......,

I have seen so many of my friends facing big problems and disappointment concerning their training and getting so frustrated with their school that i have thought that it would be nice to recap in this forum the small tricks that schools are using to catch us.
Even if most of the times this small tricks have not tough consequences, i have seen some of my friends loosing their hopes and dollars,,:{

Concerning my self i have been very lucky with my final choice at Career Pilot School... but before Career Pilot School I was in one of the very popular and packed flight school in Atwater,CA,now this school is bankrupted and for me it has been a real disaster :{:{

here is what are for me the biggest traps to avoid-

- Think twice before you chose very low price program, it is Pilot training not Car Driving....I have not seen any of my friends able to finish a zero to CPL program for less than $45,000 when it was advertised for $35,000 and sometimes even for less

- another common thing is that schools have more students than their capacity , the result is that i have seen some of my friends staying days and days,,,,weeks and weeks without flying because they were no aircraft available for that..


Please now for those who have some advice please share it with us but lets not make this thread as an advertisement for flight school..try not to come up with flight schools names...

thanks

[michael95u]

Great post. The bait and switch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch) is one of the oldest tricks in the books! Get your students to the school and then add on a fee for this and a fee for that. And when the student goes over on their times (and they will, right? because the school told them it takes everyone only 36.5 hours to get their PPL!), they charge a higher retail price to continue.

Do your due diligence in this industry and you will be rewarded. Jump at the first flight school you see that professes a connection to an airline and......well, it just won't work out in the end!

[12Watt Tim]

Don't put money down. Pay as you go. If they offer you a juicy discount to pay up-front, don't put money down. You can't lose what they haven't got, and if they are worrying that much about cash up front then they probably have financial problems, so don't put money down.

I confess, my vehemence is personal. I lost a little when a school went down, but I was lucky, by pure chance of timing I was nearly finished, and it was actually close to the amount I had saved by putting money up front, so I came out evens. I know many who lost a lot, nearly £20,000 in one case. I should not have paid upfront.

Otherwise the good schools are pretty straightforward, at least in the UK. If you suspect anything tricky then sort it out with the school or walk out of the door! Yes variations in student flow mean sometimes even a good school is over subscribed, but if it gets really bad, talk to the Chief Flying Instructor, if that is no good speak to the Head of Training. If it persists be prepared to go elsewhere, it might cost more in brush-up training, but not as much as an interrupted course, which also might prevent you getting that important first-time IRT pass.

Oh, did I say? Don't put money down!

[michael95u]

I think the key is not putting TOO much money up front. You have to look at both sides:

1) If the flight school doesn't get any money up front, the student could easily run up thousands of dollars FAST and then leave. (I have seen it happen!)

or

2) If the student gives it ALL up front, what happens if the flight school goes out of business. (We have ALL seen this happen!)

At most schools, you have to put some money down up front. But don't put $100,000 down!

[12Watt Tim]

Ideal is to pay after every flight, although even before each flight is fine. Either way neither can lose a significant sum. There are schools that run like that by their choice, with the student paying for each day's flying at the end of the day (or beginning of the next if the last flight lands late).

[michael95u]

As someone who has run a small flight school and a large flight school, here is some perspective:

1) Small school: Easy to do. Easy to manage amount of students. Easy to manage CFI's. Easy to oversee flight time. Less payments to have to worry about per day.

2) Large school: Can you imagine processing 100 student payments in one day? On top of that, if students use credit cards, there is a charge per swipe. So that raises costs for students.

Bottom line is this: Get a contract. If there is a contract, you have legal standing in a court of law. You wouldn't hand a person on the street a bag of money, right? So before handing over a large amount to a flight school, get something in writing.

[Whirlygig]

On top of that, if students use credit cards, there is a charge per swipe. So that raises costs for students. Not in the UK there isn't - the merchant fee is a percentage of the takings, usually around 2% (unless it's American Express where it's about 4-5%). So it doesn't matter whether you pay after every flight, pay up front or in arrears, the card fees will be the same.

And it's stil cheaper than processing cash or cheques.

Can you imagine processing 100 student payments in one day?Whether the student pays in advance or arrears, you've still got to the process the invoices and payments so this is irrelevant (unless your accounts department were in a mess). You have to keep a record of where the student's account is.

If there is a contract, you have legal standing in a court of law.Not if the school goes bust; no legal standing whatsoever.

Cheers

Whirls

[12Watt Tim]

Michael

Then the large school needs more staff, paid for by the larger number of students! Three times the number of students you probably only need twice the admin staff, but whatever the numbers it is no harder with a large school than a small one. After all a single staff member in a supermarket probably takes 100 payments on a shift.

[Slopey]

On top of that, if students use credit cards, there is a charge per swipe. So that raises costs for students.
Not in the UK there isn't - the merchant fee is a percentage of the takings, usually around 2% (unless it's American Express where it's about 4-5%). So it doesn't matter whether you pay after every flight, pay up front or in arrears, the card fees will be the same.

There are transaction charges in the UK - it depends on your setup with your bank. I have a PDQ machine here and there's a transaction charge for each payment you take. It's a flat 20p for Maestro/Switch, but a percentage for credit cards.

The percentage is based on volume - the lower the volume, the higher the percentage - but it averages between 1.3 and 3% ish per swipe, sometimes with a mandatory 10p (so X pence + 2% etc isn't uncommon).


You can bypass the transaction fees and have a lower fee applied across the board, but that usually means bureauing to the bank, and you may have to wait 2-4 weeks for the money to come back, which may case cashflow issues in a tightly financed business.

[Whirlygig]

Sadly, the smaller the business, the higher their marginal card processing costs. :rolleyes: But I reckon you could try renegotiating that deal ....:ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[michael95u]

Whirlygig:

I am talking just about the US. You do have some standing if there was a contract in place. But you are right. If the business closes it's doors overnight, takes the money, and the owner goes into hiding, there isn't much that can happen. That is exactly what Silver State Helicopters and Jet University (and about 50 others in the US) did. But there are hundreds of other schools that are ethical and will make good on their promise.

Michael

[BigGrecian]

No one mentioned paying by credit card.

Paying by credit card gives more protection that paying by cash - if a company goes under or you were charged with what you think is unfair - the card has liability so will attempt to recover the funds.

[michael95u]

I think I may have derailed this thread a bit. To get back on the topic, maybe Agnni can tell us more or even tell us his or her story. I might be reading between the lines, but it looks like he or she has had some experience with a few different schools.

Michael

[JetUStudent]

DO NOT PAY MORE THAN $2500 UP FRONT TO ANY FLIGHT SCHOOL FOR ANYTHING. NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY MAKE IT SOUND, NO MATTER WHAT DISCOUNT THEY OFFER--DON'T DO IT!!!!

Never let any flight school get more than $2500 ahead of you for any reason.

If you will simply follow this advice then the scammers in this industry will be out of business.

A contract does not protect you if the school does not have the resources (money) to honor that contract. A 100% guarantee is not worth the paper it is printed on in the flight school business.

Over 100 MILLION DOLLARS has been lost by students in the State of Florida over the past 8 years to flight schools that have collected money up front and have not delivered what was written in the contract.

Don't be another victim. If the flight school wants money up front then run away. The newest scam is collecting large amounts up front for time building. Don't do it!

[michael95u]

You obviously went to Jet U. Having toured their facilities a while ago, I was amazed they stayed open so long! The most top heavy organization I have ever seen. There were tons of high management people.

What else did you learn from your Jet U experience?

[JetUStudent]

For those worried about transaction fees on credit cards it is really a non issue that amounts to peanuts. The transaction fee on credit cards is around 30 cents per swipe plus the percentage.

If a student has 30 swipes for $1500 each that is a grand total of $9.00 in transactions fees on $45,000 in flight school training.

Total non issue except if you are one of the schools that wants to scam.

[JetUStudent]

Michael,

The Jet University students have a student website that details the horror that the students went through at Jet University.

If you google jet university you will find it. The website has been left up by the students and former employees to help others considering flight training know what to look out for. I wish a website like this was available prior to enrolling at Jet University.

With that being said, the training was actually quite good. 180 students went through Jet University.

[michael95u]

I beg to differ on the swipes. It can add up to be a pretty large total when you factor in a 3-5% per swipe charge!

[JetUStudent]

Michael,

I happen to be in the credit card processing business. If you are paying more than 3% discount fees and more than 30 cents transaction fee then you are paying too much.

Keep in mind that the discount rate and the transaction fee are based on the business owners personal credit. Those with good credit get a better rate.

In the example of $45,000 in flight school charges the 3% credit card fee would be $1350.00 no matter how many swipes you have. The transaction fees will be 30 cents per swipe. Even if you had 100 swipes to get the $45,000 the transaction fee will only be $30.

[JetUStudent]

Michael,

The management at Jet U was not really top heavy. Heath and Mark ran the place. Trevor was brought in to be CEO and was really nothing more than a figure head. That's three guys and I don't see how you could do it with much less.

There was a chief pilot and assistant that ran the flight school side of things.

There were two administrative assistants. One of those answered the phone and the other worked with the accounting and finances.

It wasn't the top heavy management--it was the management by deception that got them into trouble.

A number of people have said that Jet University was a great idea--it just had the wrong people running it. I tend to agree with that statement.

[CLAUDE-CPS]

JetUstudent, you are not very fair ....

There are dozen and dozen of flight schools which are doing their business with a good ethics what ever are the actual difficulties.
It is true that a lot of school have closed recently making very tough situation for some students but there is also a lot of others who are battling everyday to keep their commitment with their students ?

And financial difficulties are not only happening in one way, what will you do when some students suddenly at the middle of there training are unable to pay their fee ? and beleive me it is not exceptional at all ...

[michael95u]

I have to agree with Claude-CPS. I think the problem in online forums is that you always hear about the negative stories. This or that school went out of business and took all of the students' money and on and on.

What you don't hear about are some of the help provided to those students by other flight schools. Or schools that work within an ethical framework to make sure their students are taken care of. It would be nice to hear the positive stories instead of the negative!

[B2N2]

JetUstudent, you are not very fair ....


Yes, he is he's being more then fair. You have no idea what Jet U students have been through.
This will take you a while to work through:
Jet University Sucks | Aussie Air | Flight Schools Information | FXE Flight Center - HOME (http://www.jetuniversitysucks.com/)

Earlier in this thread somebody suggested a contract.
Contracts will not protect you either, contracts only work if both parties abide by them. If the flight school doesn't where does that leave the student?
Small claims court? Sue the school? At what additional expense?
What if the school has cancelled the student's visa and they have to leave the country? It will never make it to court.

The safest course of action is still:
DO NOT PAY LARGE AMOUNTS UPFRONT NO MATTER HOW MUCH DISCOUNT YOU GET OFFERED

It is perfectly fair for a school to ask you to keep your account in the plus.
Deposit $1000-$1500 at a time and at the end of every day ask what your account is at. Yes, you go and ask when to pay. It's very frustrating to constantly have to run after students to remind them their account is low.:ugh:

"Payment is due upon delivery of the service" this applies to both parties :ok:

And yes, I do work in the flight training industry.....:}

[Photon85]

I echo what everyone else has said.
As a student who has taken my training solely in the USA (Florida), and been working as a flight instructor on a Visa for nearly a year, I've seen good and bad things about my own flight school, and others.

Mimicking some things that other have said as well:

- DO NOT pay large sums up front. I have to echo what everyone else is saying here, it's stupid, and you're putting your money on the line. So many schools close down, don't do that mistake, you might never see them again.

- Get opinions from students/instructors who have studied/worked at the school(s) you are considering. I don't care what their admissions officers say, their only job is to get you enrolled. Previous students/instructors (hopefully) have none such agenda

- If possible, tour the school, talk to current students, try to find any potential problems with the school. Problems such as: poor maintenance, bad ratio on students vs instructors (in the sense that you wont fly enough), not enough airplanes vs students (again, that you don't get to fly enough).

- If your plan is to work as an instructor, ask current and previous student if the school hires all their students. (Most schools do, because they can take a huge advantage over something close to "free labor").

Lastly, look at the kind of training you will have to do. More and more schools REQUIRE you to do silly additional courses that are not required in any sense by the FARs or part 141 training.
Like extra ground schools, extra flight training not affiliated with any type of 141 course, etc.

[JetUStudent]

Michael,

Until proper regulation is put in place to actually properly regulate flight schools, I'm afraid that the only protection a flight school student has it to pay as you fly.

As we found out from the owner of Jet University, strip clubs are more regulated than flight schools.

This industry needs proper state regulation that insures that the business is properly capitalized and has proper insurance as well as a trust account to protect the student's money.

Jet University did not have insurance and was not properly capitalized. No one (state or federal) had ever looked at their financal statements.

The problem goes much deeper than Jet University. Flight school students have lost over 100 million dollars in Florida over the past 8 years with flight schools that have not delivered what the students have paid for.

I would hope that legitimate flight schools would support and encourage such regulation to improve the health of the flight school industry and keep the bad guys out of the industry. These bad guys are stealing your potential students and not delivering the services paid for. This does not benefit your flight school, the industry or the student.

[Ronand]

Avoid JAA flight schools in Florida at all costs, never pay bigger amounts upfront...
On the other hand everyone who is siriously considering commercial pilot training at the moment must be mad anyways so you might aswell go down there and throw your money away.... Probably you will have a better time though if you fly straight to Las Vegas and blow your cash over there... :}

Cheers

[Cows getting bigger]

Get them to demonstrate their student turn-around time. How many schools advertise a 4 week CPL that actually takes 10 weeks? If they have nothing to hide, they should have evidence of recent students' training programmes.

I would pay up front, but no more than a few hours' worth of flying.

Make sure they can actually find/source an examiner. (Sounds silly, but some schools really struggle to get one in the right place at the right time).

Get a warm feeling about aircraft availability. If they only have one twin and you're down to do twin training, what is their plan if the aircraft goes tech? Do they have access to a spare? Is the one aircraft due an annual?

[michael95u]

JetUStudent:

More regulation would be nice, but who can do it? The FAA already has 141 certification. But we have all seen how some FSDO's are QUITE lax with the 141 schools in their district. Who else out there will regulate the industry? One of the great parts of the industry is that it is for the most part, unregulated. That means anyone with a plane, the proper insurance, and a CFI can start a school. On of the worst parts of the industry is that anyone with a plane, the proper insurance, and a CFI can start a school! :ugh:

There are some great schools out there. There are some really bad schools. Sometimes, it seems that the schools with all of the marketing dollars (and hence more students) tend to be the not-so-good schools!

[JetUStudent]

Michael,

Most states are already regulating vocational schools though their secondary education commissions. (or something similar). These state commissions have the ability and experience to regulate flight schools.

These commissions currently regulate business schools, truck driving schools, beauty schools, etc for financial capability, proper operation as well as safeguards to insure student money is protected.

The problem is that flight schools have somehow been EXEMPT (by state statutes) from these vocational school regulations for reasons that no one can explain other than they "thought" the FAA was regulating flight schools.

Of course, most of us know that the FAA DOES NOT REGULATE flight schools and has never looked at a flight school financial statement or even required a bond or insurance.

The most the FAA has ever done is look over and approve a 141 syllabus that allows for a REDUCTION in the number of required hours for a certificate or rating. (Why a new student needs less hours is beyond me since I have always heard students and pilots complain that they need more hours)

The FAA has never gotten involved in consumer problems such as student flight school issues.

The flight training industry has one of the most expensive costs of any education program. However it is the only one that we know of that has absolutely no regulation from the state or federal government. Regulation in this industry has just slipped through the cracks. That has allowed the bad guys to enter this industry unchecked and simply steal millions of dollars from flight school students without any real consequence.

The bad guys are bad for the good flight schools as well as the students.

[CLAUDE-CPS]

Don't you think it also a question of good sense !!!!

If you find a school who advertise its training 0 to CPL in 250 hours for $35.000 when everybody is more or less in the $50.000, there is may be matter to be carefull !!!! or the ones who guaranty a job in the airline after the training when there is hardly any jobs at that moment !!!!

There is no miracle in aviation ....

It is certainly difficult for a foreigner to come and check a school in the US before signing but there is no excuse for the US students ....

[BigGrecian]

Make sure they can actually find/source an examiner. (Sounds silly, but some schools really struggle to get one in the right place at the right time).

Difficult if UK JAA CPL testing as the CAA now organises the testing.

Which means now you have two agencies:

- Your school who provides the training.
- The CAA who provides the testing and availability of examiners.

Best thought of separately if you want to make the system work for you.

It is not uncommon at times to wait around 5 days for CPL or IR testing.

[anon9999]

One of the biggest mistakes of my adult career was paying 103k for a CPL IR ME when it should have cost 40k

The ground instructors were assholes and are well-embedded hence likely to be there a while. People that had reached the end of their RAF career and found little else their skills were appropriate to other than flying training, although they had no experience of commercial flying and worse still had a belligerent tone towards it

I am forevermore REGRETFUL for choosing FTE JEREZ

[avtraining1]

I certainly understand and share the sentiments of students who undergo the dilemma during the training stage in their flying career. And I’m also aware on how flying schools conduct their business taking their student’s career at stake.

We need to understand that there’s no perfect business in this world. Even one of the largest and stable airlines in Asia (Japan Airlines) filed bankruptcy protection last January 19, 2010 and expected to lay off 15,000 employees.

Your choice in paying the school for your flight training depends on your financial capability and comfort. If you’re comfortable in paying the school in per flight basis then there’s nothing wrong with that. If you think paying half or full of your tuition upfront is ideal for you then there’s nothing wrong with that either. The only difference between the two is the application of your judgment. It doesn’t take a lot of thinking if you’re paying per flight basis. However, if you decide to pay a large amount of money for your training then you need to have proper judgment so you’ll not fall into false promises or scam. Neither of this payment method exempts you from any false promises, scam, or even risk. Some flight schools provide hidden charges in per flight or even package payment methods. And some are very good sales man that they’ll convince you to pay a large amount of money even they don’t have the quality of service you deserve based on the money you paid.

WHOM OF YOU HERE ESCAPES FROM THE TRAP OF A SCHOOL MANAGER WITH VERY PLEASING PERSONALITY AT THE FRONT BUT A LION AT THE BACK AIMING TO DEVOUR YOUR FINANCES?

AND WHOM OF YOU HERE KNOWS IT’S A SCAM IF YOUR FIRST IMPRESSION OF THE SCHOOL IS GOOD BECAUSE OF THEIR NICE FACILITY, GOOD EQUIPMENTS, AND IMPRESSIVE FLEET OF AIRCRAFT?

I BET NONE.

Neither of the payment method guarantees your success or escapes you from any risk. If you have the money and you’re just paying a per flight basis then there’s a big risk that you’ll spend it in another venture therefore interrupting the continuity of your training. Or, if you pay a big amount and end up in a school that’s closing down then you’ll also lose.

Most of the students who aim to become professional pilots nowadays have wrong perspective when embarking in this career. They choose the school that has an impressive facility, programs, equipments, and aircraft. None of these students knows the reality behind the business even with due diligence still it does not guarantee from the risk he or she is into. Every student has different opinions about the school, therefore, making it more complicated and confusing if obtaining views from other students.

The most important thing if you decide to become professional pilot and have a successful career in flying is to choose the best instructor (not a flying school). I was very lucky that I was mentored by one of the legend in aviation, William K. Kershner, who taught me the right stuff and helped me become successful in this career. You can find good instructors at National Association of Flight Instructors at NAFI - National Association of Flight Instructors (http://www.nafinet.org) if you’re planning to fly in the US. You can search for a master flight instructor or even flight instructors that are inducted in the hall of fame. The reason why the flight instructor is the most important thing is because they protect their name and profession in the industry and they shield you from any scams or bankruptcies. Additionally, if you have a good mentor then he or she will help you find a promising job. Remember that even if a flight school is directly attached or a subsidiary of an airline company, still it does not guarantee your employment after your training. And it does not guarantee that they’ll not close down if strike by economic crises.

[pilotdog]

I have been reading these forums for a while but hadn't registered before. I felt I wanted to respond to this one!!! I am Canadian and got my PPL in Canada but have been in the UK for a year. I had the same problem with the school I was at and very frustrating. They had a college program and put those students first. I remember getting one flight in three weeks. I ended up switching schools and finishing. Right now I am trying to figure out if I will do my CPL here or wait till I get back to Canada where it is cheaper.

I want to go back to Canada and be a bush pilot ideally but want to get as many hours on a floatplane so looking to see if I wait to go back to Canada if I can actually get a commercial license on floats. Anyone know?

[ant152]

I'm enrolled at FTE at the moment and I have to say I couldn't dissagree more at the moment- but this is what I'm seeing so I'm not saying your wrong. So far the instructors have been second to none in Ground School, and all s%^* flying instructors have been thrown out. The facilities now with the new 737NG sim are pretty good with the exception of some of the frasca's.. Yes it has its downsides but then don't all schools?

[OzzyBob84]

G'day Guys,

I have just been reading your posts on the difficulty you all have been having trying to decipher, between what's true and what's false with your flying schools. I for one have had first hand experience taking on a flying school that had deceived over 100 students. Many of us have lost over $5,000, which is a small fortune to most young people. To much to forget, and to little to take to court.

I would like to offer my advice in this instance. Don't fall into the trap of them telling you, "aviation is a small industry and we can make it very difficult for you." This was the phrase that Australian Wings Academy (AWA) continually told to all students to stop them from complaining. I personally have made more friends within the industry by taking on and assisting others against a corrupt organisation such as AWA. Trust me, if you do nothing, you will regret it for life. A group of current and ex-student (20+) have gotten together and reported AWA to every government department we could think of. We have also posted up on this forum [B][U]Flight Training Options No.2 the issues that we experienced with the school. We have had so many hits in the last month that when you type Australian Wings Academy on Google, Pprune "Flight Training Options" is the second link after the academy's website. We have been coordinated precisely to strike as a group.

There is no harm in telling the truth. As a group we want to rid the industry from corrupt/criminal organisations and I suggest you do the same. Evil prevails when good men/women stand by and do nothing. So….. lets not complain about the issues, do something about.

Good Luck
OzzyBob

[johns7022]

All these problems seem to be with Part 141 operators with 'programs'...

I did all my training Part 61, pay as you go...I had much more control, and it went as fast as I could learn.

But like so many others, I occasionaly ran into lousy schools, lousy instructors...they are everywhere...the trick is to be able to cancel a check, fire an instructor, and not let them 'get too deep into you' that you can't get your money back and move on to somewhere better.

Bait and Switch is almost 'American' by nature...slick advertising, sales peeps telling you what you want to hear...then when you write the check and they don't produce...it's very annoying, because they make their money based on the concept that if they rip off X amount of people, only Y amount will complain, collect, ect...

Here in the US, nobody will do anything right unless they are forced to...morality is dead. Serously. So if you pay as you go, they keep working for your money.

[The Old Fat One]

ah Johns7022...a fellow cynic.

What an excellent, and profoundly adroit, post...not just for flying training. but pretty much every "service provider" in the western world.

"Caveat Emptor" The new religion of the post credit crunch world.

[belize hunter]

well i am just wondering if anyone had a experience with florida aviation academy good school, bad school or stay away form school

[feduke]

NO money has ever been lost to one of the few schools that are accredited like a college or university, and those are the only schools now allowed to have the F1 visa. Apparently the US government is considering a requirement for all visas (M1, etc) to be given only to accredited schools. The requirements for that are very strict and severely enforced. If everyone just limited their search to accredited schools this thread would never exist. This is the most important thing you can do.

As to paying up front, don't pay everything but, these are schools with set and very high expenses. Some pay over $100,000 per month just for insurance. Most non accredited schools don't have insurance, and this is something else people don't check out! They need to have a decent cash flow to exist and also to keep their prices as low as possible. I understand why they can't allow "pay as you go." Just get a contract, WITH AN ACCREDITED school and pay over 10 or 12 months. Make sure that is understood before you commit to the school and you will have no problems.

They can't run their school efficiently and at lower cost if they have to finance your training too.

['I' in the sky]

Here's a trick that I saw used at a school in Ft Pierce , Florida back in the late 90's.

You pay for a 3 week PPL package. You are led to believe that if you need any extra training it will be charged at the basic rate - fair enough. Only when you reach 45 hours is the actual pricing explained. Your package price was based on the normal hourly rates and you had been given a discount for completing your course on time, result: package price. However as you hadn't completed your training on time you now foreit the discount and so your account was reworked with the flying you had already done rebilled at the normal rates.

That school which I will not name, after a re-routing through various other Florida airports no longer exists. The owners however are still involved in flight training on the east coast of Florida.

[ricky4892]

It's pretty simple. Don't pay for the entire course upfront. Pay in stages or go modular.

[bryanc]

Hi
Wanting to get into flying, obviously :ok: Here in New Zealand you have a choice of getting your PPL/CPL etc via private schools, or, going to a "polytechnic" (which has government backing) where one can get a diploma/degree. The 2nd is 3yrs full time study, when you have finished you have got your PPL, CPL, IR, C Cat Flight instructor, Direct Instructor Supervision, C CAT Night rating, approved synthetic flight triner instructor rating, ATA, MEIR, ATPL flight nav general and various Aviation papers. On top of this you also have "summer school" to up your hours by doing an internship at a local commercial airline so you end up with 700hrs in total. What I'm wanting to know is which would be better? Or a better question, what sort of questions should I ask both to make sure I'm getting the best deal.
Thanks

[OZvandriver]

Australian Wings Academy on the Gold Coast in Australia is famous for surprising it's students with extra costs. Out of nowhere you get a bill with a five-figure sum on it with no explanation whatsoever.

Dont take it form me tho, do a search of the school and see what others have to say.

[Nikai]

Bryanc - suggest you request information via PM regarding the schools that you are considering (in the D&G forum), you'll probably find people are more willing to share their experiences this way.

The promises aren't all they seem, particularly depending on the number of aircraft/instructors/bookings available - which can affect how quickly you can progress, weather and aircraft availability tend to have quite an impact, as do how often courses are run.

I don't think I know anyone that has completed all of their training (as you outlined): PPL, CPL, IR, C Cat Flight instructor, Direct Instructor Supervision, C CAT Night rating, approved synthetic flight trainer instructor rating, ATA, MEIR, ATPL flight nav general and various Aviation papers within three years - that said, most of my colleagues had to work whilst they studied, which has a tendency to slow things down a bit.

If you don't have a degree or diploma from prior study, you may as well go down this path, shouldn't end up costing much more than basic admin fees and can lead into non-aviation study if you want (you'll want a back up if you get into this industry!).

Plus as painful as student loans are, it can help you keep the training consolidated nicely, easier than flying 1-2 times a month when you can afford to, if you can afford to, just pay it of as soon as you can.

If you go visiting the schools, after doing a trial flight or having a look around, see if you can have a chat with some of the students that are currently training there - out of earshot of the instructors/managers, everywhere has its good points and bad points, you might hear a lot of negative stuff about certain places, but there are also plenty of reasons why the students are still there!

I'd ask some serious questions about the 'summer school' options as well if I were you!?

Good Luck!

[bryanc]

Nikai - thanks for the feedback,

[Andy98]

I'm about to start my flight training through my High School. I got really lucky and my scholarship includes flight training. I wonder if they pay up front. If they do and the Aero club go bust my training will probably be over because the school don't want to pay twice for me.

[OZvandriver]

The management at Australian Wings Academy on the Gold Coast are masters of tricks....just ask any current or ex-student.

[mohammad]

Lets see what happens to AUSTRALIAN WINGS ACADEMY when all the air asia cadets finish their CPL, wonder if Phil will suck up to other airlines and try get more cadet ship, most probably NOT after everyone knowing what happened with AIR ASIA :D

[Mcheni]

I am African based in East AfricaDoes anyone know PACIFIC AVIATION ACADEMY of Vancouver, British Columbia of Canada, with this web wwww.getpilotwings.comI want to do flying with them, however, I have half of the fees app. 20,000$. is it possible to do part time job once I am halfway to raise fees to finish the remaining portin

[VT-ASM]

Folks,

How is CAE global academy ?
Is it worth spending the extra $$ and training there ?

[tolipnj]

There are schools that will let you pay after every flight. the place that I did my training (westwind in phoenix az) just charged my card after i flew. Most of the other students did this too. It really was a non-issue there.

[dt1tg]

Are the leading flight training schools to be trusted, eg. CTC or OAA?

[KieranBal]

Are the leading flight training schools to be trusted, eg. CTC or OAA?

You can trust them to some extend as far as not shutting is concerned, however, their integrated courses are hugely expensive and you are paying thousands for a name. They are all well and good when there's jobs going. Both have been known to get many pilots into airlines such as ba and easy but at the moment, they can't give you much more then any other flight school where you could be paying tens of thousands less.

This isn't to say they're a bad school- I've heard the standards are pretty high and their facilities and aircraft are pretty good, but make sure you consider modular and look at other schools. I can't speak from experience but from reading these forums, I've heard Stapleford are pretty good and they are significantly cheaper than OAA.

[Flying Lawyer]

I entirely agree with those who've advised obtaining a written contract if you are paying any money upfront.
In aviation as elsewhere, memories concerning verbal agreements have an unfortunate habit of failing when disputes arise. ;)

Read the contract very carefully (including the small print) before you sign.
This may seem obvious but many consumers sign contracts without reading them at all, or read just a few paragraphs and then sign before reaching the end. I suspect most, if not all, of us have done that on occasions.
Ask in advance for a copy of the proposed contract and read it carefully in your own time before signing.

Make sure you know and understand what you are signing.
Ask someone else to check it for you - someone familiar with contracts and/or flying training. (Your own enthusiasm to begin training may cause you to miss, or even ignore, potential problem areas.)
If you are concerned about a term/condition, do not accept a verbal assurance from the school about what it means/when it would apply - however charmingly offered. Get it in writing.

Refunds: When and How?
In what circumstances will you be entitled to a refund? Some contracts are very one-sided in favour of the school in this respect.
Bear in mind that the opportunity to complete your training at another time may be of little or no practical value. eg If you have set time aside to do a course and won't be able to return in the near future and/or without incurring considerable expense.
Will your outstanding balance be refunded in full or will the school make 'deductions' in some form?
In what time-scale will the money will be refunded? ie Immediately or within x days?

Extras/hidden charges: A common source of discontent.
Establish precisely what will be charged and how it will be charged.
eg
Is there a fuel surcharge? (Quite common in US schools at the moment, and perhaps elsewhere.) If so, how much is it? Is it calculated on actual fuel used or a flat rate per hour?
Does the school charge separately for pre or post flight briefings as 'Ground Instruction'? Distinguishing between actual instruction and general conversation (aviation related or otherwise) can be a tricky area. If there is a charge, devise a method to ensure the school is not charging you for casual friendly chit-chat with your FI.
Is there a separate charge for insurance? If so, how much is it? It might be a relatively small amount per hour but it may become a significant amount over the duration of a training course.
If you land away when dual, will you be charged for FI time on the ground? If so, is FI 'waiting time' charged at full or reduced rate?

There may sometimes be no practical alternative to accepting terms and conditions you don't like/which seem unfair - but you will at least reduce the risk of unpleasant surprises.



FL

[heliswede]

u.k flight traning
ukft.com
pm me if somebody know something

[WFDUP]

"The low price program" as you call it is usually a base price in which you can complete your course with the minimum time eg. 150 hour course completed at 150 hours. BUT as most pilots know the training can take longer than this and usually on the contract. This is specified in fine print.
It is a sneaky way to get customers in

[R-27]

in addition to Flying Lawyer

- before you sign a contract you should ask and demand the clear answer if a school/FTO is able to conduct this kind of training you want to do and you will pay for. I met the situation when FTO announced on their website a lot of flying trainings however they were allowed to conduct only theoretical trainings (as far as I know the situation didn't change yet). So, they charged a pilot more money, because the flight training was done in another FTO. They simply were a kind of broker which means the trainig had to be more expensive than others.

[Simon Lockie]

I run a small flying school in Auckland, New Zealand.

We simply don't take money up front. Each lesson is paid for at the completion of that lesson.

This means: If we don't keep the students happy, they don't come back next time.

Pretty simple.

To complete a basic CPL with us costs about NZ$60,000. Compare this to some of the Integrated schools who take a big deposit up front, to save you money, and yet they charge much more???

Sadly, the industry in NZ is dominated by 'factory' type flying schools who are all tapped into our governments 'student loan' scheme. This means that even though they charge significantly more than we do, we still can't compete because we can't offer the loan.

I could go on for days about the stories I've heard from students turning to after being through the bigger schools systems.
Here is just one: A student came to us with 53 hours flight experience, a $50,000 student loan debt so far, only 3 hours solo! and not even a PPL yet.
The thing is, this guy flew fine, not excellent, but perfectly adequate. His only problem was that his confidence had been destroyed by never being allowed to fly the plane solo. We got him back on track.

[Dacman767]

The best thing I can advise is to check that your school has an AOC, if it is teaching GA. A simple search of the CASA website will save big dollars.

[27/09]

Here is just one: A student came to us with 53 hours flight experience, a $50,000 student loan debt so far, only 3 hours solo! and not even a PPL yet.

I know some of the bigger schools have a reputation for being a little money hungry, BUT, 53 hours for $50,000 that's almost $1000/hour. That is a bit hard to believe. Yes I know there are other costs than the aircraft hire, like the exam fees and class room tuition etc but I cannot see believe that someone could have spent $50,000 for 53 hours flying.

I understand your position regarding being able to compete against schools that provide access to loan funding when you cannot. However there are schools without access to loan funding that do compete reasonably well.

Also I should point out that there are many schools providing loan funding that provide very good value for money to their students.

DACMAN 767

There is currently no requirement for an AOC to carry out GA flight trainng in New Zealand. There will be some certification requirements (but not an AOC) for certain facets in the near future but no requirement for PPL.

[captainsuperstorm]

you have really to be a moron if you think about flight training.
there is no job all around the world.
schools tell you anything just to get your cash, and kick you out dry with eavy debts and with 200-250h, you will never find a job.:{

just forget about aviation, save your soul!

[Nixpilot]

hey guys!

I'm doing PPL in canada, but I was wondering if it's best to stop and continue in the US or get my PPL in Canada first? I was considering OFT, Aerosim, Dean international and flightsafety.

I heard OFT is a rip off and I find Aerosim way to expensive for his program from IR to CFI...

Dean is kinda cheap but I'm scared of cheap schools...

[picometer]

...and even worse is the state regulating something. Now you pay on top of flight school for the state to bungle the regulation.

[Nixpilot]

Hey guys!

I'm gonna go visit Aerosim this week, I read that it's $10K deposit when you start training and then it's $5.5K every 30 days until training cost is met.

I wonder if anyone one in pprune have had bad experiences with Aerosim?
I want to go to that school but I don't wanna make the mistake and regret it afterwards.

[windcutter]

hey Nixpilot,
so any luck with your planned visit? howdy find that school,any good?

[aviator0902]

Do not go for Dean or Flight safety. I recently completed my multi engine training and had a great experience with a school.If you want details on the school you can PM me but I will again warn you about Dean and flight safety.

[Nixpilot]

I came back pretty satisfied, the guy was really friendly too. I've been in one CPL for about 20mins, good instructor, even though im a ppl student.

The airplanes looks good, they have a quite new building which they built 3 years ago.
they have lots of simulators for cirrus sr20.

And before I left I met a guy who was working at Pam Am and he was the same guy who took me for Pam Am school tour back in february.
Most instructors are fairly young and there're lots of chinese students and boy do they know how to keep the campus clean *sarcasm*

The only thing I didn't like was the campus laundry and kitchen which were quite messy.

Other than that it's a pretty good school, their pass mark is higher than FAA, 80% in all courses.So gotta work hard, but I think I will go to Aerosim instead of a school here in Canada.

[mohamad haziq]

Hi there,

Does anyone recommend this school??
Planning to do type rating soon....

[hawaiianhigh]

Be careful of Mauna Loa Helicopters in Hawaii.
A great bunch of instructors but the management will say ANYTHING to get you to empty your bank account into theirs.
I was one of MANY who was told "If you get your CFI, we have a job waiting for you.
Then once I got that, "Well we really need you to get your instrument before we will hire you"
So now $60,000.00 later with my CFI and instrument rating in hand I hear "Well, we really can't hire you unless you get your CFII so you can teach instrument students and then we are realy to go and make you part of the team here. Your our best student and we can't wait to have you teaching here"
So another $15,000.00 out from my bank and into theirs and finally I graduated every rating that they teach just short of the ATP, which requires 1200 hours anyway so I wait to be hired.
Time passes and still nothing.
6 months pass and I get a e-mail saying, "We regret toinform you that your 6 month has passed since your date of graduation and our company policy states that "After 6 months your no longer in the hiring pool""
Ouch, what happened?
Did the tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars I spent there count for NOTHING?
A friend who works there said he overheard the owner saying he was not going to hire me since I was too old.
OK, I am only 45 at that time.
I was not too old for them to take all of my life savings and not too old to keep telling me that I was their next CFII.
There are MANY others who got the Mauna Loa shaft so be careful.
In hind sight, I would go with a reputable school that puts it in WRITTING that once completed and graduated we will hire you for XXXXX number of hours as instructor and PIC time and then let you go.
Unfortunately, they didn't put that in writting nor the claims that they would hire me so it is my word against them.
Sour grapes, not just for me but many others.
Be carefull.
There are other flight schools in HAwaii if you need to train here but whatever you do, get it in writting BEFORE you give them al your money.

[usualguy]

I would go with a reputable school that puts it in WRITTING that once completed and graduated we will hire you for XXXXX number of hours as instructor and PIC time and then let you go.

ahah keep dreaming...nobody will sign you a work contract before your license.
just go get a job and good luck.
u are a US citizen?, so don't complain.you got the FAA at 60'000$, still a good price.

when i was in the USA, i hanged around a helicopter school, and all these idiots told me there will be a heli pilots shortage( i got LOL). 3years later, I see nothing.even we are in a recession now.

it s always the same trick..like when a school wanted to offer me jet time.I told them no and I was right, school closed a few months later.we are just $ for them.

[Gordy]

hawaiianhigh

Other than living and flying in Hawaii for 7 years, I have no affiliations either way with the school or you...I merely offer my $0.02.

I was one of MANY who was told "If you get your CFI, we have a job waiting for you.

And you believed it-----I have a bridge to sell you..... I do not know of ANY school that will guarantee you a job other than Boatpix. Therefore I do not know which other "reputable" school you are referring to.

Did the tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars I spent there count for NOTHING?

They are a business..... Many people go to college and spend way more money, yet do not expect the college to find them a job. The industry is what it is.... Personally I would have warned you against spending your money for ratings at your age..... And yes I know there is no "age discrimination" in the US.

[NYCSavage]

I own Flight Academy Blackpool and have taken a number of these suggestions onboard. To be fair, a number of the suggestions on here was already protocol for us.

One thing I have noticed, a lot of people actually WANT to pay upfront fees! The amount of times that I have talked people out of paying upfront I could have probably retired on the profits alone! I'm not saying I don't take payment upfront, its just that I prefer not to. This protects both parties.

With the costs of flying constantly increasing, the price you pay today could make the course unaffordable for me to operate in 1-2 years time, which would mean operating at a loss, or I could increase the students costs (which I refuse to do)

[flyergirl1985]

A friend of mine said that Flight Training Europe use any previous hours flown towards a licence allowing you to fly less and that they will refund those hours at the end of the course.

However when it comes to the end of the course, they only refund 40% of the hourly rate claiming the other 60% is an "administration fee". Has anyone else heard of this? It sounds very unethical.

[ceachai]

It's not always that sound, i've been searching flight schools in philippines and they don't do as what they say :=. . My friends been there too and no corruption happened. .try it, it's worth a try. .:) Be smart enough to know what really was the trick!;)

[congoman]

Read the career guidance chapter on the Flight Training College website.
Flight Training South Africa Pilot Training Garden Route (http://www.flighttraining.co.za)
FTC is in George on the southern cape of South Africa and have a few tips on how to avoid the con-artist scams.
Flight training is an expensive business so make sure you get value for money. By the same token - make sure YOU are committed to your dream. Lots of students are very lazy and spend their time wasting their sponsors money. Don't expect the flight school to do you any favors if you don't work hard.
If you are lazy, learning to fly will be MUCH more expensive than it needs to be. If you aren't prepared to fly regularly you will be repeating lessons, and that costs money! If you don't study, you will be repeating exams, and that costs money! Just like universities won't guarantee you a degree, nor will any decent flight school guarantee your success.
These days students think if they just pitch up with the cash - that will be enough to pass. Not in this business!!! Be warned - don't start flying unless you are prepared to work hard! Otherwise you will lose a LOT of money! That is the most common way the con-artists will catch you. If you are lazy you will be easy pickings. Seldom have I seen a hard working student ripped off but I've seen plenty sluggards lose it all.

[GCS16]

As with any investment a good way to reduce risk is to diversify. An old hand aeromed senior pilot advised me to do each stage of my training at a different school. You get to meet more people and experience more "flavours" of instructor so that if you get a dud who teaches it the wrong way you will realise it when the next shows you something different.
Schools want you to sign up for all your training to win your business. A good quality school will win your repeat business buy providing you with a quality service.
P.S. I have tried 3 schools but keep going back to my local aeroclub.

[vinit]

Even i was considering going to NZ for my flight training. But then i came across this institute in India and joined it.
The name of the institute i am currently doing my CPL is NFTI.

So how was your experience in NZ?
Have u applied for jobs anywhere?

[traindriver33]

NZ flying training is pretty good. The terrain and weather provides a unique leaning environment.

[portos8]

Hi,

I did my initial flying in New Zealand at the Nelson Aviation College. It is a great environment and FTO to do your training. They have incredible high standards and flying in the South Island is breathtaking and challenging. You will, guarranteed, have the best time of your life:D

NAC have a long history and hunreds of pilots have gone there before you. Ask them for references.

[fibod]

A good thread - here is my penny worth…

Type Rating Scam

I don’t know whether this is too far off topic, but this scam rears its head every now and then, so maybe worth adding for the youngsters here who may not have come across it before.

It all starts with a credible advert for first officers – type rating not required. Applicants will be invited for interviews, usually in a nice hotel at a major airport. The interview is quite credible. There may even be more than one stage of selection. The employer will be credible too; it will be an attractive job. The only slight snag is that you have to pay for your own type rating. Shortly after the interview you’ll be offered the job. If you accept, a bill for the type rating costs will appear. When you have paid it, you’ll hear nothing more. Eventually, you may be tempted to contact the airline or BJ operator; however, when you do so you’ll find that they know nothing of the people or process you have just been through. No type rating, no job and no sign of the scammers.

How Long is an Hour?

Other traps your young players? How about what’s a chargeable flying hour? There is an ICAO definition along the lines of flight time is when the aircraft first moves under its own power until it comes to a final stop. This is often referred to as ‘chock-to-chock times’. Is that what you are being charged for? Is that what you are logging? Because there are several variations on that clear definition. Some of these are:


Notional chock to chock times. This is when the flight time is taken as first take-off to final landing plus a ‘standard’ allowance for taxying. Legally, you may log less than chock to chock but not more time. So in cases where there is often a long hold before departure, this system may be to your benefit as you will be charged for less time than the chock-to-chock time; and sitting for 30 minutes waiting for departure at Kidlington is not very good training! However, some schools may be over-generous in their standard chock-to-chock allowance meaning that you actually receive less training than you pay for.

Hobbs time. This is a favourite in the US, where Hobbs meters are used for just about everything. However, the Hobbs meter may start running when the battery master switch is turned on. If your CFI (for the non-FAA jurisdiction readers, that means Certified Flight Instructor, rather than Chief Flying Instructor) is paid by the hour it is in her or his interests that the flights are as long as possible. He or she is not paid for briefing or debriefing; but will be paid once the power is on and the Hobbs meter is ticking. That’s why your instructor will be quite happy to sit in the aircraft chatting away with you both before and after engine start. Is it a big issue? I once knew a flight school owner who did not know that this was going on. When it was pointed out to him, he did a comparison on his aircraft fleet between Hobbs time and Tacho time (which runs only when the engine is turning) and found a 20% discrepancy!


Pay for Training Using a Credit Card

I think this has already been covered, but in the UK and some other territories, paying by credit card protects you in the event of the supplier going bust. In the UK the relevant legislation is Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The credit card company is ‘jointly and severally’ liable to you with the supplier in the event of a claim by you. Even if you have paid only a deposit using the credit card, they are liable for the whole amount. N.b. there is a potential loophole for them if the course is not sold as a whole, but is sold as several elements, e.g. by flying hours, Groundschool separate from Flying, etc. If in doubt, pay for the whole lot using a credit card (not a debit card); and, if you can, use a cash-back card so you get some of the money back (1% on a course costing thousands will pay for your celebratory meal on graduation!)

Find out how your school logs and charges for flying hours before you sign up with them. If it is fair and legal, no worries…(but don’t pay up front or, if you do, use a credit card). Treat every job offer with a pinch of salt and be very careful about handing large amounts of money over on the promise of flight training, a job or whatever. And, above all, try and make sure that you log the same number of take-offs as full-stop landings.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

With the difference between Hobbs and tacho, 15% is about right. The instructor often gets paid by the Hobbs hour and doesn't do many billable hours per day let's not forget that the majority of students expect the instuctor to give them a lot of unbillable time, eg hanging around after their lesson or turning up early wanting to chit chat, often depriving the instructor of a rostered break.
If the student wants to pay on tacho we give them that option, the price will be 15% higher because the costs are worked out at 115 billable hours per 100 maintenance hours.

[2close]

If this has been previously covered, I apologise for repetition but then again it is definitely worth mentioning again for the benefit of those who may not be aware.

When factoring in costs fro modular training courses, beware of the IR.

This 55 hour course (less allowances) was always calculated on chock-to-chock time but that was stopped last year when the authorities realised that, at some FTO's the amount of actual instrument flight time flown fell short of the mark. As a result, it was mandated that the only time that could be counted was instrument time during flight and not taxy time, i.e. time in actual conditions or under the hood from take-off to DH/MDH. No big deal as far as the simulator goes but it can mean a significant extra cost on actual MEP costs.

Make sure that the IR course costs are for '15' hours of instrument time and not for '15' hours of Brakes Off-Brakes On time, which could result in you, over the course of 10 training flights, adding 2 - 2.5 hours (if not more) of MEP time to the overall costs.

Good luck with your flying training!!

:)

[bbbs53]

My school will only take 2000.00 blocks at a time. If you can devote the time, it can be done in 5 blocks. It usually takes about half that to finish instrument. Still, they will only let you in 2000 at a time, they have been around for years. Looks like I got lucky, so far no screwing around, just good instruction!

[volunteerpilot]

Best way to avoid the tricks is to have proper funding and go to a reputable school that could get you into the airline. Any other options are very risky and there are so many tricks the schools can use that you will always be taking a huge risk. For instance, once you take up the training with one school you can't easily switch to another school unless you get CAA approval (often additional training is needed at new FTO) and it will ruin your chances of already slim employment chance.
If you have 200k, plan 100k on FATPL and the rest on type rating etc. Enjoy the lifestyle. See the world.
If you dont have money, dont go into aviation.

[LostYetAgain]

Hints/tips that might be useful.


In selecting a flight school remember that they want you to spend your pocket full of cash with them. A few will make an extra effort to help you choose them.

Forums
Where serious amounts of cash (your cash) are at stake, treat recommendations on the forums with caution. Don't get me wrong, there is a vast array of valuable information on the forums, but where there is a vested interest involved, you need to be careful.
It is in a schools interest to project a favourable image on the forums, and from what I have seen, it's not difficult for them to get an unfavourable post or thread removed. “No one has a bad word to say about them” might well indicate a great school, but then again, it might indicate something else entirely. You need to be savvy to get a true picture of the schools out there to help you get value for money.


Getting factual information
Ideally contact a couple of recent ex students from each of the schools on your list. You could do this by starting one or more threads on the forums. Better to get a premium account on LinkedIn, and InMail a couple of ex students, perhaps one who has just started a job in the area you want to work, and one who has not found a pilot job yet. Most will be prepared to help someone following in their footsteps and will identify with the challenge you are facing. You may also make a contact for the future. Talk to them directly, away from public view. They will be happier to talk completely honestly if they don't have to put it in writing. Check that their views are still relevant – recent student? Instructor still at the school? What happened to other students they knew? How many students did the instructor have? Who were the best instructors? Who should be avoided? What were the aircraft like: condition/serviceability/availability? How often did they fly: every day/once/twice? Did they “back seat”? Did the instructors have a commercial/military background? How much help did the school offer after the course? Do they know someone else you can talk to about the school/your other choice of school?


Aircraft
How often will you fly. I would say that once per day is about right. You can get more done in the SIM, especially in the early lessons, but less than once/day isn't great. You should be able to get a feel for this from the school website. What is the ratio of aircraft to instructors? It would be odd to have more aircraft/SIMs than instructors. High utilisation is key in reducing costs/maximising profits.


Airline contacts
Get specifics. Find out what airlines a school currently has contacts with & what they do to link you up … is it simply a letter of recommendation? How do you get recommended? How many students from the school have been have been placed with those airlines recently, say, in the past 12 months. Did the school have an active role in that placement, or did the student do the legwork themselves? It's not unreasonable to ask.

Pass rates
I doubt that you will ever get full, true statistics from a flight school. The old adage “There are l1es d8mn l1es, and then there are statistics” applies. The schools want your money, and statistics are a good way to “help” you compare schools. There are “first time” passes, and “first series” passes. Find out what they mean. If the school declares, say, an 80% pass rate, does that mean you have an 80% chance of passing if you go there? That is unlikely. At best the figure will only include those students that actually made it as far as the test. The information that's missing is the number of hours that students took to get that 80%, and how many students dropped out (or were discouraged from continuing). If the school does publish figures, they must be proud of them, but take a hard look. Do those figures actually make sense?
Make sure you are comparing like for like though as not all schools operate in the same way. For example, it would be difficult to compare and airline style school against those that don't train that way.

Simulators
IR schools make good money from their simulators, and little from their aircraft. It is in the schools interest for you to spend as high a proportion of time in their SIM as possible, after all, they are in the business to make money. There is nothing wrong with that, but If you would rather spend more time in the aircraft, then ask. Remember though, that a good instructor in a decent simulator is a very effective training combination.

What happens if you struggle on the course
Please ask the question before you part with your cash! Find out what the schools fall-back plan is. Do you then fly with a more experienced instructor? Can you change instructor? How many instructors are there .. if there are only 2, then your choice is limited.
Be honest with yourself. If it took you a while to get your PPL, then please, PLEASE, don't give yourself the additional challenge of doing your CPL on a twin, take it one step at a time, and get your CPL on a complex single before stepping up to the twin.