The Dreaded Maths And Physics. Help?

[Crescentpirate]

Lets set this straight. I've had an ambition to fly for as long as i can remember but i never really grasped the importance of maths and physics until i had left school.

I have physics grade c GCSE but no maths. As a result i missed the chance to get these on my A-levels.

My plan of attack is to just train myself to pass high on these areas during my modular exams and so on. Does anybody have any good sources of information such as books or websites good for reinforcing these skills? i heard that there does exist a book for wannabee pilot weak in these areas.

Now obviously i am at a disadvantage by not possessing maths and physics A-level or even GCSE. I can imagine there being a little bit of a frown during the interview if the next candidate has these, but can any pilot currently flying now say they were in that position and dispite the odds successful without having those qualifications but possessing good knowledge of the subject?

If not, i'll probably tackle the long road and resit those GCSEs and work up to my A-levels just so i can get my knowledge 'on paper' causing another 2 year wait to begin.

But if its not that big of a problem i might just learn what pilots NEED to fly and take my chances in the selection process.
Boy i ask a lot of questions don't I? haha

[michael95u]

I can't help you much, but I can say I am always amazed at the high amount of background knowledge required by the aviation authorities in the UK and Europe!

I have a BS in Biology and Sociology (before I went into aviation) and I struggled with the Physics and Math components! I am sure if I was held to that same level for aviation, I would have gotten discouraged and quit! But nw that I have been flying a while, the physics and math make sense. Wish I could have had that light bulb go off in college!

Good luck with your studies!

Michael

[skyhigher]

this is what you want:

key notes - maths and physics for pilots.

Maths & Physics for Pilots (http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/product18410023.html)

[charliegolf]

What topics in Maths and Physics for pilots would be above a C at GCSE?

I can't imagine you'd need any A level topics for ATPL. Be interested to hear otherwise.

CG

[Crescentpirate]

Thanks michael, skyhigher and Charliegolf.
Yeah if anybody knows different please share. I think i'll be alright just with the knowledge. I suppose if i had it on paper it may make my intervewer more receptive to me but i suppose if i have the adequate knowlede i'll be alright. Guess i'll just turn up in a steam-pressed suit haha

[Bealzebub]

In English, the personal pronoun 'I' is always written with a capital letter.

[12Watt Tim]

CG

AC electrics. Principles of flight. Bits of radio nav.

Belzebub

Indeed. It always struck me as odd to ask a favour of someone, such as the imparting of knowledge, while not having the courtesy to take any care at all over the most simple of grammar. To do so in a forum where a future employer might read it seems even stranger.

[student88]

AC electrics. Principles of flight. Bits of radio nav.

...and apparently these are sentences.


pot
kettle
black

[Whirlygig]

No they're not; they are words forming a list which can be separated with commas or full-stops.

Cheers

Whirls

[12Watt Tim]

Indeed. Also I am not aware that I have requested any favour in this thread.

I should perhaps add that the courtesy in using correct grammar and punctuation lies in ease of reading and interpretation. The list appears to be clear, at least to me, and therefore courtesy lies perhaps in brevity.

[student88]

With risk of sounding like a football player, at the end of the day Crescentpirate's post is hardly difficult to read. I think some of us are being a little pedantic.

Yours sincerely,

S88

[BoeingMEL]

Crescentpilot... Plenty of us (old hands and more recent) have successfully tackled ATPL studies and exams without any maths or physics qualifications. By all means bone-up using the suggested book but IMHO doing GCE studies and exams now really is not necessary.

PS I'm with the pedants... being careful will become a way of life if you make it into aviation. Good luck anyway. bm.

[TheBeak]

Crescentpirate I think you probably define the future of the airline pilot. I wouldn't panic about the Maths and Physics revision.

I think some of us are being a little pedantic.


Yeah and sometimes I find checklists a little pedantic too. And having to use the English Language. And why do we have to have defined speeds throughout the flight profile? Soooooooooooooo pedantic.

[Genghis the Engineer]

English: I'm a well known English pedant, but personally I found CrescentPirate's original post easily readable; he does have the rather odd writing signature of using the consistently lower-case "i" when "I" would be correct, but it's the only consistent error and didn't detract from the readability of the post.


Maths: Personally I really think (CrescentPirate) that you need it. Not necessarily to handle the maths components of ATPLs, which you've almost certainly covered with your physics GCSE (unless the syllabus has changed a lot since I did my O levels anyhow), but because most HR departments will not consider employing anybody in a professional job without both maths and english GCSEs. Additionally however there's a strong chance that you'll need to enhance your mathematical reasoning skills in order to handle, for example, W&CG and nav subjects - and studying for and passing your maths GCSE is not a bad way of developing that reasoning to your own benefit before (or whilst) getting on with your ATPL study.

G

[12Watt Tim]

It's not difficult to read, but in a block of text an obvious error like that takes the attention. Given that Crescentpilot makes that error every time he uses "I", it does make for stilted reading. The sentences don't flow properly.

As for good advice to Crescentpilot, I would say he should go back and pass GCSE maths before even checking out courses and funding. If he doesn't he is wasting his time, because if he can't pass then he won't pass the ATPLs and if he isn't willing to make the effort (which, as Genghis has pointed out, will help a lot) then he won't pass the ATPLs.

[lesgonard]

Yeah and sometimes I find checklists a little pedantic too. And having to use the English Language. And why do we have to have defined speeds throughout the flight profile? Soooooooooooooo pedantic.

Interesting that you start two sentences with the word 'and.'

[student88]

Yeah and sometimes I find checklists a little pedantic too. And having to use the English Language. And why do we have to have defined speeds throughout the flight profile? Soooooooooooooo pedantic.

Should I be embarrassed that I have no idea what the point is you're trying to make?

I was saying that they're being pedantic about the guys use of 'i' over 'I'. I didn't mention about the use of check lists or defined speeds.

Guys, I'm not looking for an argument! I just think that it's unfair that some people in these forums go out of their way to give others a hard time over tiny mistakes which don't really effect the development process of the thread.

We're socialising and discussing with each other on an internet based forum. We're not flying a 737 between London and Malaga. There is a time for being pedantic, and this is not it.

[TheBeak]

You'd better tell the people who wrote the Bible then Les you tool.

I quote Genesis 1:25 -

God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

It is fine to start a sentence with 'And', especially conversationally.

Sorry student88 for being a bit short.:ok:

[lesgonard]

Would you take grammatical advice from someone that thought "God made the wild animals?!"

It is cretinous to start a sentence with 'and,' especially twice in one post.

[student88]

Okay, serious thread drift here. Thanks for the apology TheBeak. Now can we all just have a big group hug and move on? It's Christmas after all.

Crescentpirate - I left school at 16 with no A Levels and GCSE grade B in Physics and C in maths (I went to work for a few years with the airlines). A long story cut short-ish, when the **** hit the fan I realised that there would be no decent chance of me getting a job as a pilot for a very long time so last September I went back to college and re sat my Physics and Maths GCSEs. I'm now doing AS levels (at the age of 21 may I add).

I think that you should go back to college in September next year and re sit your GCSES in a 1 year course, then go get your A Levels. You're still young and the A Levels will give you something to fall back on, especially if you decide in 5 years that you want to go to University. Don't worry or be too embarrassed about going back to college a few years older than anyone else, it shows good judgement.

No one has to be a FO at the age of 22. You have plenty of time in the future for that. When I come out of college with my A Levels I'll have more choices than I had before. (and the pilot job market in the UK will probably still be $hit) The thing with becoming a pilot is that you can get a fATPL without any GCSES at all - it's just when it comes to getting a job things get even more difficult. You either have to have:


lots of money to buy a job with an airline (Ryanair)
lots of luck (which very few people have)
a friend or contact who knows the right people..and if you don't have any of that you'll be battling it out with the rest of the CV pile - you want yours to stand above the rest. As Tesco say: 'every little helps'.

Go on, do yourself a favour and build some decent foundations to a great career as a pilot through getting your A Levels. You wont regret it, I promise.

[selfin]

It is cretinous to start a sentence with 'and,' especially twice in one post.

Neither H.W. Fowler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Watson_Fowler) nor F.G. Fowler held this opinion in authoring The King's English (1906).

[TheBeak]

Lesgonard knows better, she/ he is one of 'those' that wont be told I feel. Speak then think hey Les!

[charliegolf]

Is this not a numeracy thread?

CG

[Luke SkyToddler]

Here's a better plan - stop stressing about school grades, sure as sh!t dont go back to school to get them, go and get a job and save some money for flying training. School maths and physics have about 1% relationship to the stuff you'll pass the ATPL writtens, and absolutely NO relationship whatsover to what's actually required to fly an airplane. When the time comes to actually sit the writtens, a good school will teach you all you need to know regardless of your educational background. If you have actually worked for an extra year or two, saved some money and you can spend it on something constructive like hour building or even *shudder* a type rating then that is time that's better spent than more years at school doing stuff that's marginally relevant.

This "top marks in maths and physics" thing is a bit of a 1960s hang-up that was certainly asked about in the old-school days of fully sponsored BA cadet schemes ... but now they don't give a brass monkey's, since 99% of entry level jobs these days actually require YOU to pay THEM :{

- (Luke ST, classical studies and history major at school, now airline captain)
- (Mrs Luke ST, trained as a fashion designer, now airline FO)

[12Watt Tim]

Luke

Please don't. He will really annoy his ground instructors if he goes into class unable to do basic GCSE maths. It is not their job to teach him that, and it delays the class if they have to (distance learning he would be lost, so it also cuts that option off). If he can't do one GCSE at night school while working full-time then he won't pass his ATPLs. I agree his grade need not be great, but he should have the knowledge.

[IrishJetdriver]

Admittedly this was 11yrs ago but I asked my training provider (PPSC) to give me all the mathematics subjects that are required and are often weak. Having received this I then found a private maths tutor who got these items up to speed. I was able to do this over the school summer holiday period when the maths teachers were looking for extra beer money and it also meant I only studied what I knew I would need.

It was a great help and although the maths in the ATPL subjects was for me never easy, it was at least a recognisable foe and one I knew how to deal with. I did find the maths required was repetitive and competency increased quickly.

In this day and age I agree that a formal qualification can only be of benefit when an employer faces a pile of identical CVs (experience level) and has to have some method of selection.

[Scott Duch]

Only being 18 I may not have all that much experience but I would agree with people in improving your maths skills. By going to college to upgrade your GCSEs or via a private tutor. I had my maths up to Higher level in Scotland which is just below the equivalent A-Level. Now i'm at university doing Aeronautical Engineering and the first year maths is a third of our coursework and a fair bit is repition of what I have already been taught yet some material is new. However, the material that I have already seen is merely being enforced and as a result I gain a better understanding. I would suggest going down the route of upgrading your current qualifications. :)

[Luke SkyToddler]

... and yet all you teenage maths einsteins, still seem to take leave of your senses as soon as some pack of crooks present you with the option to borrow house size sums of money and work for free or worse at the end of it :ugh:

A polar stereographic chart messes with everyone's head when you first try and teach it them, and I really didn't see a difference between the flash public school kids with grade 'A' maths passes, and the farm boys doing helicopter CPLs when I taught it to be honest. Either you get it or you don't.

Go and get a job and save some money dude while there's no jobs to be had - we'll see who's the maths guru at the end of the day, when this lot are earning 1000 quid a month on a "flexi crew" contract and their loan repayments are 1200.

[olster]

It would be beneficial to gain some enhanced academic qualifications particularly in the maths area(GCSE adequate) and during this downturn.As LST amusingly points out basic economic theory can be useful too.

good luck

[Crescentpirate]

Oh, by the way relating to the above topic of correct grammer, there actually is no criticism. Why must i say this? Sure the text is gramatically incorrect in standard english but we are on a forum in which does not require standard english and so we can openly use functions of slang and influency features as an affordance. Writing in fully standard english holds the contraints of time and effort. I am not knocking the need for standard english, it is important for formal occasions and speaking to people of relative importance but it is not entirly important on these types of networks.

If an employer were to look at this post it is not as if they are going to know I am Crescentpirate in the interview room. It is not entirely something you would declare or be asked in such a situation.

Txt spek removed at no xtra charge!

Lolage!

(Yeah but thanks for the tip, i will be...I mean I will be sure to address the problem when the times comes for formal writing. Thank you.)

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm afraid that I think you're wrong there CrescentPirate. Correct spelling and grammar needs to be a matter of continuously re-inforced habit; you can't suddenly adopt good habits when required any more than you can suddenly start flying well for a skills test or line check: it needs to always be there.

G

Oh, by the way, relating to the above topic of correct grammer, there actually is no criticism. Why must i say this? Sure the text is gramatically incorrect in standard english but we are on a forum in which does not require standard english and so we can openly use functions of slang and influency features as an affordance. Writing in fully standard english holds the contraints of time and effort. I am not knocking the need for standard english, it is important for formal occasions and speaking to people of relative importance but it is not entirly important on these types of networks.


Oh, by the way: relating to the above topic of correct grammar, there actually is no criticism. Why must I say this? Of course my text is gramatically incorrect in standard English; but, we are on a forum which does not require standard English and so we can openly use slang. Writing in fully standard English wastes time and effort. I am not knocking the need for standard English; it is important for formal occasions and when speaking to people of any importance; but, it is not entirely important on these types of forums.

[kenparry]

Well said, Genghis! The problem is one of the differences between generations. The young ones who can't be bothered to spell think we oldies who can are old f*rts. They don't realise that it's still the old (relatively) f*rts who dish out the jobs, in the times that such are available.

[DeeJayEss]

Genghis for PM! Well said chap, great post - though personally I think it's hilarious that this numeracy thread turned into a grammatical argument. :ugh: Does anyone wish to discuss gravitational time dilation with me?

(I did check my grammar first, but it's probably still wrong...)

[Whirlygig]

it is important for formal occasions and speaking to people of relative importance but it is not entirly important on these types of networks.Nice. So we're not important enough for you eh? You come on a forum, ask for help, send PMs to people asking advice and receiving it free, gratis and for nothing with nary a word of thanks? Agreed. We're obviously not important to you. :mad: :hmm:

Cheers

Whirls