I suppose there is one upside to QF operating in NZ- they'll be able to operate "safe" Antarctic flights out of New Zealand again!

Disgusting!

Woomera, time for action.

BB
It's the weekend, find something constructive
to do. I hope you are put on probation.
PS
Your vindictive comments on the other thread are quite incorrect, I know several Aussies who work for Air NZ.

No mate, disgusting is when 16,000+ innocent people are thrown on to the scrap heap of life by incompetent fools in NZ. You think we're too emotional? well you're right! It does'nt help when people like RUTB seem to delight in rubbing our noses in it. Do you think most Aussies want to see AirNZ go out of business- ABSOLUTELY!!!

BB,
Whether you want to believe it or not Ansett was going to go down no matter who owned it. It was either that or a very severe downsizing that meant a lot of redundancies. For some reason Air NZ were required by the Aussie Govt to sign a document insisting on no restructuring or downsizing. That and the amount of debt sealed its fate.

BB ask one of your mates what a 'Gripper' is.

If they gave you another brain you'd be lonely :p :p

Ouch! that hurt, please dont tell my mum on me. No, I will not go jump in the lake! BTW, as an Australian I resent the implication that our national airline cannot safely operate Antarctic scenic flights out of NZ!

OK, before this thread gets closed.

Air NZ does not have a restricted employment policy; we've got Kiwis, Ozzies, Poms & Chinese etc - we even employed Gary Toomey if you haven't noticed!
May be the reason there's more Kiwis working for Oz airlines than the other way round is because we(Kiwis) are actually better pilots than you lot!
If you haven't noticed, QF (domestic) did a slow roll & pull through a couple of months ago; it was Kiwi owned and a lot of their pilots have been subsequently hired by Air NZ - we can't be THAT fussy! As for looking for our own markets (unquote in another closed thread), can't the same be said about QF?

Boeing Belly, I'd have thought that with the passage of time you'd have cooled down by now - such is obviously not the case. I bet you didn't spend as long deciding to sc@<hidden> in '89 :p :p :p

Better pilots than us. Well who knows, maybe yes, maybe no, but certainly not when it comes to scenic flights over the Antarctic or ILS's into Apia!

RUTB,
You well know that prior to 1987 when Ansett Australia established Ansett NZ that Air NZ had a stranglehold on ALL pilot recruitment in the one major airline which was AirNZ. For more than 30 years prior to that Australian pilots were discriminated against by AirNZ whereas in Australia that field of employment was open and not only to kiwis.
Recent events including your industrial squabbles have imposed some variation to that. Your divided unions within AirNZ was one effect of that.
You have a conveniently short memory span or perhaps you were not around then. As I have indicated before kiwi's abuse of our good nature has extended far too long.
Skol give the example that ONE of his neighbours is an Australian on the dole. Compare that with the myriads of kiwis on the dole over here not to mention the rorting of our Medicare and immigration system.
I'll give ONE example of a kiwi over here to Skol's neighbour.

A B747 Captain who holds a Senior's card and is stupid enough to boast about it. The Senior's Card is for retired people on low income not in full time work not for a stingy rorting kiwi. Guess he also shoves your crummy coinage in our public phones just like the rest of your bunch.

BB,
I'm waiting to hear you deny RUTB's allegation that you're an 89 sc@<hidden> If you are an 89 sc@<hidden>, call it quits while you're ahead.

FSU,BB et al you're pathetic. Get your heads out of your backsides for once. For every Kiwi on the dole in Bondi there's 10 who are good citizens and tax payers elsewhere in Australia and the same applies to Australians here. Do you guys have a little hole in your backs to take the key for winding you up?
Blaming ME for the travails at AN and wishing for my imminent unemployment is absolutely ridiculous and the epitomy of immature.
All I ask, as I have consistently in this BB, is that you look in the mirror for some of the factors that lead to the demise of AN. You are obviously incapable of that and are therefore condemned to repeat the mistakes of history as you are proving yourselves incapable of learning from them. Viz; Air NZ no longer flies to Antarctica, QF still does! Air NZ changed its employment policies in the early '80s and don't go quoting some B747 t0sser to me, he ain't worth talking to!
Continue on your demands for high pay and gold plated conditions; AN/QF Staff travel for one, and you'll all go down the tubes with or without the help of us Kiwis. Learn from ALL of history and don't selectively quote it to me; I was an elephant in a previous life and I will out-remember you, be warned if you intend to go down that path! :cool: :cool:

An elephant in a previos life eh, I bet you're hoping to come back as a sheep in the next one!

Just as I guessed - no brains! :p

RUTB etc,
Well now we are onto obscenities abuse and threats. Not once have I resorted to that tactic..JUST FACTS.
If you don't like the fact about the 747 rorter too bad. It was in response to Skol's dole remark.
Remember all you like including any threats you care to make it will have no effect on me.
Other remarks about the relative costs of AN/QF crews have already been dealt with and your remarks re that disproved.

As for gold plated staff travel benefits you must be joking. In a practical sense they are useless. I do as I have always done. If I want to go on holiday in my owntime and leisure I pay the appropriate fare and don't join the begging queue.

But I guess kiwis would. Bad luck if you get offloaded.

FSU welcome to the club, I've been doing that for years. Your memory isn't that flash but don't bring up 20+yo accidents & highlight the shortcomings of Samoan technicians, it only displays a tenuous hold on the facts!

I dont understand, are you saying AirNZ have Samoans sitting in your jumpseats to monitor your flight instruments during ILS approaches?

RUTB,
what are you going to do with all that beautiful Aussie shiraz under your bed?

`Cause we know ain`t none of it is that watery crap from the South Island or the under ripe,lean & green muck that pours out of Hawkes Bay!

BB,
Still waiting for you to deny you're an 89 scab. If you are an 89 scab I wouldn't worry about the kiwis, worry about the aussies you put out of work.

As I thought, a tenuous grip on the facts. Read the INCIDENT report on the Apia event and you'll know that, but for good old fashioned monitoring, it would have been an accident report. As the saying goes, " a little knowledge is dangerous."

Never mind all the Aussie Shiraz [i]under the bed or the Aussie Sheilas in it, stick to the real issue here. Why did AN go under? Look in the mirror for a good deal (I've NEVER said all) of the blame. When you've done that you'll be better equipped next time, 'cos there will be one! :rolleyes:

P.S: SKOL I guess absence of denial is confirmation of the fact!

[ 07 October 2001: Message edited for spelling by: Red under the Bed ]

[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Red under the Bed ]

RUTB, I copied this from another thread, (I hope 'Wiley' doesn't object). It says it all far better than I could.
*******

X-dash8thrasher, I’ll attempt to explain, in part at least, the Oz antipathy to nU zUlUndUrs, (your post of 6 Oct). (And please, dear readers, I’m not saying that what I’m saying is the GospUl truth, just thUt right or wrong, thUs Uz a widely hUld percUption Un Oz).
For many years, there has been an agreement between the West Island and the two main islands to the east that pensions and social services be reciprocal. Ie, an Ozmate can go to nU zUlUnd and pick up the Kiwi pension or unemployment benefits, and likewise, a nU zUlUndUr can go to Oz and do something similar. Now Australians being what they are, always ready to go off half-cocked, few take the time to investigate how many Ozmates have travelled to the land of the long white shroud to take advantage of the nU zUlUnd social services system. It’s quite possible there are hundreds of thousands. Possible, your average Ozmate will agree. but damned unlikely.

On the other hand… that self-same average Ozmate has, for the last twenty years or more, seen… shall we say a goodly number of nU zUlUndUrs taking advantage – some would say rorting – the Oz system. A widely held perception, (I admit, quite possibly inaccurate), is that it’s almost a national sport for Kiwis to come to Oz to have a baby and get the Oz taxpayer to foot the bill. Likewise to have an extended ‘(non)working holiday’ in Oz living on the Oz dole or sickness benefits.

To get away from the freeloaders, (and to what gets right up the collective noses of people in Aviation in Ozmate), a Kiwi can come to Oz and apply for a job with an Australian airline (and many, many have done so for many years now), and that Kiwi will be treated exactly the same as an Australian applying for the same job. (And being a Kiwi - as most Kiwis will tell you - and therefore smarter that your average ocker Ozmate, of course he’ll get it.)

On the other hand…, an Ozmate, unless he’s married to a Kiwi, has not been able to even get a look in the door at Air nU zUlUnd for as long as I’ve been in Aviation.

And on top of that, the mishandling of the Ansett debacle by that airline’s last owners (who was that?) was beyond belief in its ineptitude. They were obviously hoping some White Knight, (or a brown/yellow one) would come riding into the picture to bail them out if they just kept hanging in there blowing a mill+ a day a bit longer. On top of that, The Ozmate sense of fair play was outraged when those same owners walked away from what a first year law student could tell you were clearly their legal, to say nothing of their moral obligations to staff, expecting the Australian taxpayer to pick up the tab. Medical Benefits payments were taken from the salaries of Ansett staff after June but not paid into the Funds. Allegedly, (note that word), those same owners also gutted the airline its final months. Personally, I find that last allegation hard to swallow, for I find it hard to believe the Dirty Digger would have left them anything to gut when they mysteriously bought it from him in what can only be called ‘questionable’ circumstances.

It may be possible to prove that every point I’ve listed here is inaccurate in every detail. But I’ve written this attempting to answer X-dash8thrasher’s comment “…i am so at a loss comprehending the level of hatred towards new zealand people…” s It might be inaccurate, (and I think ‘hatred’ is probably a bit strong), but what I’ve written above IS the widely held perception of many people in Australia – and not just in Aviation.

BB
I JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE AN AUNTY
WHO WAS KILLED IN THE EREBUS CRASH,
AND I DON'T FIND YOUR COMMENTS VERY
TASTEFULL

7x7 good post - thank you. Why some kiwi bird would go to Oz specifically to have a sprog I don't know as she can just as easily and cheaply have it here - may be she got pregnant in Oz too which would, on the balance of probabilities, make you at least 50% responsible. There could well be other factors involved, eg family, neighbours etc, therefore I suspect a two traffic exists in those cases.
As far as Oz's on the Kiwi dole; it's not something that comes up but I suspect Oz taxpayers here pretty well cover it as do Kiwi taxpayers there. To the best of my knowledge you don't have to be married to a kiwi to get the job but, if that is in fact the case, I stand corrected but I doubt Human Rights and Employment legislation permits such discrimination.
If you follow the (now closed) 'Air NZ to follow Ansett' thread and extract the wake up calls from my postings you might just discern that, as far as the AN debacle is concerned, I'm in close agreement with the causes, ie; look at NewsCorp, TNT, the Oz government decisions and Nelsonian eyes etc as well as the incompetence of the Air NZ board in buying into the airline in the first place, albeit at the implicit if not overt invitation of the Australian government.
Where I disagree with some posters on this thread and the other, and some more too if the truth be known, is holding a poor working stiff like me, or for that matter the poor working stiffs in senior management drawn from both airlines who tried to make it work (and failed) personally responsible for the collapse and wishing the same on me AND the wider NZ populace. To de facto impound the NZ PM's aircraft days after she had got the Oz PM off his Tampa boat people hook was hardly the act of a friend, as the acceptance of unwanted boat people so obviously was. Smacks of selective memory and selective knowledge. Whether we like it or not Australia and New Zealand are each other's closest friends and taking cheap shots when things get tough do not help that position.
It's just been on the news that QF have chartered Air Pacific B737s to fly QF(Australia) domestic flights in New Zealand because the Australian Government refuses to allow foreign carriers (VB?) on domestic routes. Do glass-houses and stones spring to mind? :confused:

RUTB,
Well, your memory is certainly deficient in relation to references to 20+year accidents because I NEVER EVER referred to that. As to Samoan technicians!? News to me!? Again, I have not referred to that subject and haven't yet read the thread which mentions that or whatever. You seem to have a few blown fuses in your memory bank. Don't attribute statements to me that I did not make.

[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]

BB,
Since NSJ mentioned it, I'll get into it too. I flew with and knew all the flight deck crew in Erebus. Bad call for an 89 scab.

RTUB, I didn’t write the post. I copied ‘Wiley’s’ post from the ‘Will SQ still get AN?’ thread. However, it backed up something I’d heard about myself.

I understand that the lurk was, (at least twenty years ago, it was a well known lurk for Kiwi mums of a certain social stratum), to come to Oz to have the bub and then trip back and forth between the two countries for the next few years milking both social service departments for all they could get. On the Western side of the Tasman, they had the right to claim all the handouts because the child was born there. On the Eastern side, they could claim to be citizens - (and visit Mum while picking up their Kiwi cheque).

I had a friend who worked in the department in Melbourne in the late 70’s – early 80’s and she said it was a well known scam that, at the time, they couldn’t do very much about. I can only hope the loophole has been closed now. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it hasn’t.

7x7 in that case the post is a bit mischievous, I understood that you weren't the originator but it was still worthwhile. Concentrating on the -ve Kiwis instead of the +ves doesn't help anyone, we're probably in agreement that they're low-lifes whatever the origin, which brings me to...

FSU I know you didn't make those posts, BB did, I thought you'd be able to work that out. Anyway, you're both out of the same mould your posts are so indistinguishable, it's hard to tell!!

:cool:

I'm having roast lamb for dinner tonight- I'll be thinking of you!

That's nice. What did you do to it first?
;)

I did'nt f**ck it, I'll leave that up to you guys! :eek:

BB, you need to see a shrink.

Too many stars in your 'f' word BB. And I agree with Spuds.

I just cannot believe that this thread was moved and not CLOSED.

Kermit :mad:

BB. You need some serious help. I feel very sorry for you.

Shrink? SHRINK?! It already has!! :D :D

RUTB,
You've got it right there. BB is, I guess, what 89ers call a HERO. He wants to see Air NZ go down but you won't see him address what he did in 89 i.e. scab. It's called selective morality.