View Full Version : CASA FOI conflict of interest - or not?
noexcessivecranking
3rd Dec 2009, 10:46
So how do you react when a CASA FOI tells you your school should have an accredited Synthetic Training Device, then says, "oh and I happen to own a company that can sell you one"?
I'm pretty sure that would constitute a major conflict of interest. If so, would CASA do anything about it, or will my sense of righteous indignation sputter out in the archives of PPRuNe?
Howard Hughes
3rd Dec 2009, 10:53
Geez, there can't be too many FOI's who fit that description!:eek:
However I would agree with your premise, I suspect the government would almost certainly have rules prohibiting that type of thing.
ForkTailedDrKiller
3rd Dec 2009, 10:55
Now let me see. A CASA FOI with a conflict of interest?
Nah! I don't believe it.
Dr :8
If CASA was a public company, the shareholders would have wound it up months ago.
Joker 10
3rd Dec 2009, 12:16
And ASIC would tear it apart, it is in the realms of Firepower !!!!
training wheels
3rd Dec 2009, 12:20
Well, it's really the CAO's that tell you that you need it; the FOI is probably only reminding you of that. I personally don't see anything wrong with FOI's selling synthetic trainers.
the wizard of auz
3rd Dec 2009, 13:12
If you do require one (because thats what the regs state, not what the FOI tells you) , you don't have to buy from him if you don't wish to.
He was simply offering you an alternative to where you would otherwise go. there would be no ramifications if you didn't buy his, but bought from elsewhere.
If you did/didn't buy elsewhere, and there were some positive or negative ramifications that could be construed as victimization/favoritism, then that would be both illegal and immoral.
clear to land
3rd Dec 2009, 18:03
Was he/she saying you 'should' as in 'you must' or was he saying 'this would be a good idea!' The way you have written the post implies the first alternative, but the question I have for you is was it because he/she thinks it could improve your product? A simple play on words, but that is all it takes to be seen as a slanderous comment: You may not have named names but I am sure the number of people in a position to make this 'recommendation' is limited.
Did you point out to him/her at the time of the discussion that you thought this was a conflict of interest-if so what was his response? If not......why are you posting this here????? You are walking a fine line!
If the Mains Road Department told you that the Regulations say that you must have a thronomister in your Datsun 180B, and then they said, We/I just happen to sell thronomisters ... would you be right in wondering about the validity/need for that Regulation in the first place.
There may very well have been a good reason for the Regulation, but you must not only be fair ... you must also appear to be fair.
VH-XXX
3rd Dec 2009, 21:57
I know where there's one that you can buy second hand if you want it.
Frank Arouet
3rd Dec 2009, 23:41
History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. (Karl Marx).:(
Blueyonda
3rd Dec 2009, 23:52
The first place you can start is asking the CEO if he holds a declaration of interest register for any staff.:8
Jabawocky
4th Dec 2009, 04:35
I wonder if its the same guy who I thought was an ATO not an FOI, that has supplied one to a school I know, and is having some nasty software bugs :eek:.
If he is alerting you to something in a CAO and giving you an option....its not a problem.
He might just be one of the few at CASA that are genuinely interested in helping you! :ooh:
Despite Forkies previous comments he knows how well the go out of there way to help :E
Lodown
4th Dec 2009, 04:53
My interpretation for what it's worth is that the guy is out there on the CASA's shekel and should be doing the work solely associated with the duties for which he is being paid. If he/she wants to sell STD's (what a lovely acronym) at the same time, then he should be reimbursing some share to the CASA with the approval and full knowledge of the CASA. If he/she tells you that you need an STD and then provides a list of suppliers from whom you can purchase from and discloses that he/she is the director (?) of one of them and leaves it at that, then I think that is acceptible and appropriate. But to take off the CASA cap and put on the sales hat is unethical to my way of warped thinking. It might not be quite crossing the line to a conflict of interest, but that's where it will inevitably lead and there have been more than a few CASA staff blaze that trail ahead of him. A short diplomatic email or phone call to his/her supervisor that touches the subject, but doesn't make accusations might be an appropriate response.
Rojer Wilco
4th Dec 2009, 07:36
Does anybody know where the CARs say that some types of training ops require them? I don't think they do...
In which case, if you don't want one, you simply say "No thanks", and smile politely.
On the flipside, perhaps he's offering you a bargain. Did you even get pricing info from him?
He has no conflict of interest. He can't make you get one if there's no regulatory requirement, and he doesn't write the regs. Perhaps he shouldn't be pedaling his wares on CASA's time, but that's a gripe for another post.
Hugh Jarse
4th Dec 2009, 08:21
If the FOI's pedalling his wares on CASA's time (and as a representative of the regulator) implying that his product would make the operator compliant to the regulator (and obtaining monetary gain from the sale), he most definitely DOES have a conflict of interest.
I'd be having a chat with his boss, and if not satisfied, would escalate the matter as high as necessary to achieve a satisfactory outcome.
11percent
4th Dec 2009, 09:29
Jabba, not the same guy. The ATO your thinking of is in direct competition with the CASA FOI.
As I understand it, his manager, or should I say ex manager knows..
Why no action? Come on guy's, we all know you read these forums, want to comment??
NOSIGN
4th Dec 2009, 09:46
C'mon - you need one, he's got one... what's the problem? Petty concern unless he spent considerable time trying to flog it off. WGAF? However, Peuce gives an interesting comment.
training wheels
4th Dec 2009, 10:06
Does anybody know where the CARs say that some types of training ops require them? I don't think they do...
CASR Part 60 (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_91034) covers the use of synthetic training devices.
Part 60 was developed to update, consolidate and replace current rules found in Civil Aviation Order (CAO) 45.0, and documents, FSD-1 and FSD-2, that define requirements for flight simulators and synthetic trainers. Part 60 prescribes the rules for the manufacture, supply, and use of Synthetic Training Devices (STDs), a term which covers a broader range of devices.
Part 60 will allow pilots training in Australia to use a wider range of training aids. Previously pilots were permitted to use an actual aircraft, an approved flight simulator or synthetic trainer. The provisions in the Part will allow pilots to use an aircraft or the choice of STDs.
And the requirement for their use is covered in CAO 40.2.1 (http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/orders/cao40/400201.pdf) Instrument Ratings.
Do I win a prize? :E
Do I win a prize?
No. There is no requirement to use a STD. The CAO says "may be approved" CAO 40.2.1.9.2.
training wheels
4th Dec 2009, 10:29
No. There is no requirement to use a STD. The CAO says "may be approved" CAO 40.2.1.9.2.
That's understood. :) But if you are using one to maintain currency, then the STD must meet certain requirements for it to be approved. That's what I meant.
And further more ....
How do you think I would feel about buying my brand new shiny thronomister from the Main Roads guy?
Do you think I would perhaps feel that my future dealing with him/them may be "strained" if I bought it from his competitor?
Rightly or wrongly, I would certainly feel some pressure to buy from him.
Would it be right, and proper, for the Main Roads Department to put me under that pressure?
To extend the metaphor .... pulled over by a boy in blue ... "Sir, your tyres are bald... and by the way, I have some nice new tyres in the patrol car that you can buy?
Rojer Wilco
4th Dec 2009, 21:59
Quote:Training Wheels
Do I win a prize?
Absolutley not. My (perhaps too) subtle point was that there's no requirement to have one.
Quote: peuce
To extend the metaphor .... pulled over by a boy in blue ... "Sir, your tyres are bald... and by the way, I have some nice new tyres in the patrol car that you can buy?
It's not even sort of the same. It's not like the FOI has found some contraversal non-compliance with an existing STD, and is trying to sell his wares under the guise that the purchase of his STD will remedy the non-compliance.
Take it on it's face value. An STD may improve your training environment, and the FOI knows where you can get one.
Get over it.