R22 takes off with pilot in pursuit and crashes.

[Dan Reno]

FAA: Helicopter lifted off on its own with pilot clinging to side (http://www.pprune.org/posts)

Monday, November 30, 2009 | Anne-Margaret Swary

Posted on Monday, November 30, 2009 3:17:54 AM by jsh3180 (http://www.pprune.org/~jsh3180/)

The helicopter that crashed near Robbie's Marina Saturday afternoon reportedly lifted off on its own before crashing into the water, according to both the Federal Aviation Administration and an employee at Robbie's Marina in Islamorada.
The pilot of the helicopter, registered to G S Helicopters Inc. of Islamorada, reportedly made an emergency landing on Indian Key Historic State Park around 2:30 p.m. Saturday because he was experiencing problems with the aircraft, said Kathleen Bergen, communications manager for FAA's Southern Region.
The uninhabited, 10-acre island is located several hundred yards south of U.S. 1 near Mile Marker 78 and includes a large open lot in the center, often referred to as the old town square.
When the pilot got out to inspect the tail rotor, the helicopter reportedly started to lift off on its own, Bergen said.
An employee at Robbie's Marina said the pilot told rescuers that he ran back toward the cockpit and tried to get inside before the helicopter lifted about 50 feet to 70 feet in the air. As he held on to the side, the aircraft's erratic movements knocked him off and he fell, breaking his arm.
The helicopter crashed moments later in about four feet of water near the dock at Indian Key.
The pilot was found laying in shallow water near the edge of the coral surrounding the island.
A boat from Robbie's Marina was dispatched to bring the elderly man, whose name and exact age were unavailable, back to shore, where he was met by emergency personnel and taken to the hospital. The helicopter, an R22 model manufactured by Robinson Helicopter Co, will be removed from the water by the U.S. Coast Guard, Bergen said. The FAA is investigating.

[Nigel Osborn]

Whoops!!:ok:

[Fortyodd2]

Weight & balance issues methinks!!! and only a broken arm - Lucky man.

[FH1100 Pilot]

I'll give you 10:1 odds he landed to relieve himself.

[Flyting]

There was a game capture pilot that had the same problem...
Landed to refuel, didn't idle down and forgot to lock the collective down properly...

One desperate phone call later claiming a ghost flew off with his heli...
:ok:

[Teefor Gage]

It just goes to prove that Robinson pilots aren't even safe outside the cockpit!

OK, to quote somebody else, I'll get my coat...........!!

[FH1100 Pilot]

Anyone notice the name of the nearby marina?

[VeeAny]

That's the third N registered R22 accident this year without anyone at the controls which has subsequently got airborne all on its own.

[bluesafari]

You mean there are people still getting out of helicopters without someone at the controls or without shutting down? Are these people crazy ? This happens too many times, don't people learn from other peoples mistakes?

[toptobottom]

That's one helluva stable R22 - "50-70 feet in the air" with no pilot :confused:

that's better than a lot 22's WITH a pilot :E

[Chopper Doc]

Ah well. I guess he is making the world a safer place by reducing the number of R22s in circulation.

[RaymondKHessel]

So, not only did he have to get out with nobody at the controls, but didn't he also have to not set the collective friction, not turn the governor off, and not roll the throttle down below 80%?

[pasptoo]

Obviously had a strobe light or some other tachy-illumination device, otherwise he'd just get dizzy. Perhaps he was dizzy and that is why he exited an aircraft with the rotors and engine still running!

MrT says: Foool, that's why I don't like flying!

[slingyerhook]

Maybe i'm missing something here,but "When the pilot got out to inspect the tail rotor, the helicopter reportedly started to lift off on its own".....just how much of an inspection of a tail rotor can one expect to do at flight idle??!:eek:.

SYH.

[BHenderson]

I'll give you 10:1 odds he landed to relieve himself. I'll bet with those odds.

[birrddog]

I guess he is kicking himself now for trying to save the 0.2 on the Hobbs...

[RINKER]

R22 poh

SECTION 2 LIMITATIONS


minimum crew is one pilot

i guess it's correct !

R

[heli-cal]

Anyone notice the name of the nearby marina?

Yep!

But you beat me to it! http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv29/helixpteron/happy0009.gif

[Pilot DAR]

Hmmm, it seems Flordia is having it's fair share of "odd" accidents this week....

But, let's give the benefit of the doubt to the pilot. Perhaps he did land and shut down, but just forgot to turn off the mags. Then, as he "inspected" the tail rotor, he accidently "hand propped" it, and off it went on its own! It's unfortunately common in the fixed wing world...

[Agaricus bisporus]

Why has no-one yet posted "What a f****g imbecile"???????????

Cos he was.

Assuming, that is, that the throttle hadn't wound itself from idle to open on its own, the guvnor hadn't switched itself on, the collective friction hadn't let itself off etc etc.

Which they didn't, obviously.

Own goal, imbecile.

[Trans Lift]

What an idiot? I hope he is not allowed near an aircraft again for a long while, if ever.

I'm sure he would have been able to do great thorough inspection on the tail rotor alright. I'll take those odds too!

[Flyting]

Ok.... we all agree that this chap is a §$%&/, but what are the legal implications?

Will he lose his license? If this happened in a populated area and the "Phantom 22" killed someone, would he be up for murder...

Will he be liable for the total cost of the 22 as I am sure the insurance won't pay a cent?

[FH1100 Pilot]

Okay boys and girls, SIMMA DOWN! Get off yer high horsies.

The old guy landed on an interesting little island. I'd love to land there too! You have a computer - google it. It's cool. Trouble is, it's a Florida state park which probably has some regulation against such things. Anyway, the geezer says that he had a problem and needed to "check the tail rotor." Yeah, uh-huh. Sure. Come on, pops, there were plenty of OTHER, better places to land in that case - some of them within gliding distance - like US1 for instance? I mean, if you *really* had a problem, how hard was it going to be getting help on that ISLAND?!

Okay, let's admit it, there was no "tail rotor problem." Either he had to have a whiz or just wanted to land for some reason, maybe just to explore the island. Who knows?

So he lands and gets out. This, in and of itself is NOT dangerous or risky. Not if you do it right. But he didn't. He didn't roll the throttle to idle, or shut down even. He didn't put the collective friction on. And then - surprise, surprise! - the machine tried to fly away. It didn't get far.

It was a Saturday. There were probably PLENTY of boaters around that island. Somebody saw it happen, went to his rescue and called Robbie's (heh-heh) Marina to send a boat over to take the guy to the hospital. He is probably resting uncomfortably at home, pondering his broken arm and wondering if he is now on the hook for the cost of an R-22? (Did he get Kathleen Bergen to sign his cast?)

And while he did break his arm, as far a breaking any FAR's...well...surprisingly, astoundingly, UNBELIEVABLY!!!...there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did. Flight was obviously not intended, so the FAA can't really classify it as an accident. And AS WE ALL KNOW, "flight" ends when the skids touch down (according to the very same FAA) so it doesn't even matter than he was kind of still in the middle of a local rental flight.

The FAA will likely say, "Tough luck about your arm, mate! Be more careful next time!" Or they might violate him with their catchall "careless and reckless" (FAR 91.13) deal - but even the wording of that is pretty vague. Was he "operating an aircraft for the purpose of air navigation?" Well, nooooooo. A good lawyer could (maybe) get him off if the FAA goes that route.

The Florida State Park Service will be another matter. He'll have to answer to them - for whatever penalties they can levy. He'll probably have to cough up the money to have it removed - tout de suite! - from the island.

Insurance-wise...who knows? They might cover it or might not. No telling, really.

You know, whenever I get out of my helicopter while it's running, I often fear that it's going to just...you know...fall right over. And in fact, another Robbie did just that in California last week:

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/media/K_1127_N.txt

Of course, we don't know if that one was running or not...

[Pilot DAR]

breaking any FAR's...well...surprisingly, astoundingly, UNBELIEVABLY!!!...there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did

Well, I'n not so sure... Were it to have happened in Canada, the following Canadian Aviation Regulation would probably apply:

602.10 (1) No person shall start an engine of an aircraft unless
(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft;
(b) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving; or
(c) in the case of a seaplane, the aircraft is in a location from which any movement of the aircraft will not endanger persons or property.
(2) No person shall leave an engine of an aircraft running unless
(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft; or
(b) where no persons are on board the aircraft,
(i) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving, and
(ii) the aircraft is not left unattended.

In Canada, a helicopter falls within the definition of an "aircraft". I don't know the FAR's as well, but I bet there is similar wording in those regulations too.

I know it goes on all the time, but during my modest helicopter flying career, I have only once left the pilot's seat with anything turning, much less running, and that was under the specfic instruction of the check pilot. I am not at ease with the practice myself - I'd rather wait. (rotor brake makes the wait more preasurable though!)

Pilot DAR

[Gordy]

as far a breaking any FAR's there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did.

Correct but they may get him on 61.13 Careless and reckless..

And AS WE ALL KNOW, "flight" ends when the skids touch down (according to the very same FAA)

That is for the purpose of "logging time", not for the purpose of who is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft.

I happen to know that you CAN be violated for leaving the controls of an aircraft---even though it is done legally. In Hawaii, we would hot load and refuel every day. We would also get out and leave the controls unattended to check for "fuel levels, oil levels, seatbelts, headsets, etc"---these words were written into our FAA approved 135 manual. We were allowed to leave the "immediate vicinity" of the aircraft for "blue room" breaks when our trained ground crew would do a control hold.

I happen to know of a pilot.. ;) who took a 10 day vacation based upon the FAA's definition of the word "etc". He was leaning on the door waiting for the "trained ground crew" after having checked "fuel levels, oil levels, seatbelts, headsets, etc", and was charged with FAR 61.13.

[RaymondKHessel]

What about 91.9(a):

...no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations...

The limitations section requires a minimum crew of one pilot.

[Gordy]

Raymmond---that is for intentional flight.... :)

[FH1100 Pilot]

§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.

(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

FAA GUY: Sir, you were operating your aircraft in a careless and/or reckless manner.

PILOT: Nuh-uhhh! No way, dude! This is sooooooooo bogus. I was done aviating! I wasn't operating it, Slick. I was shutting down, man...there was no air navigating going on! And what's air navigation, anyway? What kind of bullsh*t is that? Cut me some slack, Jack.

FAA GUY: Errrr....what? SHUT UP! Why I oughtta...I should violate you for incredible stupidity. Oh if only...if only!

He wasn't at an airport. He was out in the middle of nowhere on a deserted island. He's like, 90 years old. If the FAA violates him, that FSDO is seriously underworked.

[rotorrookie]

And thr NTSB recommendation for type safety improvements will be:
"Frank! please make em with a goddam remote":}

[birrddog]

I may be on crack, but I recall seeing a ZK reg R22 with a clip to be flipped over the end of the collective to avoid just this type of scenario...

[Scissorlink]

How many hours left on the clock??

[toptobottom]

How many hours left on the clock??

The pilot or the R22? Tough question.

[Agaricus bisporus]

This talk of the FAA and it's staff "violating" pilots brings tears to my eyes, as it must do to those unfortunate enough to be on the recieving end - though the end of what I hardly dare to imagine. Yuk!

Do these violations occur after due legal process and with a doctor present, or are they hurried fumbles behind a bush in the field, or on the back seat...???

Seems a strange way to deal with offenders no matter how the deed is done.

Why I oughtta...I should violate you for incredible stupidity. Oh if only...if only!



Kinky bastard!

[Dantruck]

Allow your ship to go flying by itself will get you into big trouble here in Spain. Apart from everything mentioned above you'll get done for not having filed a flight plan. You even need one to fly circuits thanks to Franco :rolleyes:

Anyway, in my book the captain is always in command from the moment you roll the thing out the hangar doors, not when the skids leave the ground. The guy acted as a grade-A pelican whose greatest contribution has been to drive everyone's Robinson insurance premium north.

Cheers Mate:bored:

[topendtorque]

"Frank! please make em with a goddam remote"


The remote should come with a nice comfy chair too please Frank.

[212man]

oil levels

Which levels do you check with the aircraft running? :confused:

[Gordy]

Which levels do you check with the aircraft running?

I asked the same question when I was first hired...was answered with blank stares...I just quoted direct from the ops specs.

[Chopper Doc]

It would be a braver man than me (or perhaps one with no imagination) that would try to check the T/R gear box level with the rotors turning.

[Exo.]

I'm fairly impressed that he seemingly survived a 50-70 foot fall with only a broken arm! Maybe he's made out of rubber?

[slowrotor]

Pilots often come up with some rather strange stories to explain how the aircraft got all twisted and bent. Usually the pilot has no fault and blames the aircraft design or some unfortunate mechanic.

He might have invented a better story than this, I think. (assuming this was a real event;))

[rotorfan]

Well, I'n not so sure... Were it to have happened in Canada, the following Canadian Aviation Regulation would probably apply:

602.10 (1) No person shall start an engine of an aircraft unless
(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft;
(b) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving; or
(c) in the case of a seaplane, the aircraft is in a location from which any movement of the aircraft will not endanger persons or property.
(2) No person shall leave an engine of an aircraft running unless
(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft; or
(b) where no persons are on board the aircraft,
(i) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving, and
(ii) the aircraft is not left unattended.I don't believe for a minute those are real regs. First, you can read and understand them. :ooh: Second, they actually make sense. :\ I'm calling BS on this post.:=