Sydney Flight Training Centre

[KopitePilot]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if anybody here has been experiencing the farce that is Sydney Flight Training Centre over the past 12 months? If you are involved in this, please get in touch - I'm looking to get as many people involved together to try and get some sort of positive resolution for us all.

Ta

Kopite

[KopitePilot]

I just heard that SFTC have gone into Administration today. The company owner has started up a new school under the name of Australian Aviaiton Training Academy, but none of the existing students have any sort of contract with AATC and it remains to be seen if students with outstanding amounts owed (i know of at least 2 not including myself owed more than $30,000 worth of training) will get any further training. Also the raft of hard working, and unpaid instructors are facing loosing out on months of pay. How they can get away with this I don't know.

[The Green Goblin]

Never pay upfront!

Pay in 10 hour blocks in arrears (which is what I negotiated with my school)

That way if they go broke you get 10 hours for free :ok:

If they do something wrong by you, you can withhold payment until a resolution is proposed.

Money talks!

Oh did I mention don't pay upfront?

[GA715]

Cynical Pilot, it is already being done.

[KopitePilot]

GA715 - are you involved with this hearing? If so good luck. I've been doing my research, and it's looking likely that the company owner is basically trying to neutralize his (massive) debts to start over again, leaving scores of people heavily out of pocket. The utter utter ****!

[KopitePilot]

For anybody interested or who has been/is being affected by this, there's a facebbok group been set up Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/group.php?gid=179769126374) where people can get together and share information and also an email [email protected] which people can contact in complete confidence.

thanks

Kopite

[GADRIVR]

I may be wrong but I think you'll find that shutting down one business and starting another next day doesn't necessarily mean that the debt is assumed anulled.
Something about a "transmission of business" phrase rings a bell.
A check with the Office of Workplace relations or whatever they are called these days should prove enlightening.
Hope that is of some small help in a really sad situation.
The only advice I'd give to the employees is to stick together and chase it up collectively.
Cheers:ok:

[KopitePilot]

So here's the latest. I have contacted the appointed administrator and it turns out that NONE of the students and very few of the staff who are owed together hundreds of thousands in training and pay have been included by the company CEO Barry Diamond on the list of creditors. Luckily that's been found out early and people are being informed so they can add thier names to the ever growing list.

Secondly it seems that while all your money (over twenty grand in my case) has gone, you can continue the training on exactly the same aircraft at his new company AATC as long as you pay $210 an hour hire rates.

No way can Barry Diamond get away with this surely?

[Trojan1981]

Legal representation is allowed in the CTTT and is advisable. I realise the tribuneral was set up so that ordinary people could argue their cases but the law involved is not that simple.
If you don't have any already, I may be able to help with representation.

[HTFU]

kopite, sucks to be you really, not saying that as a rub in, but it's been done before check this thread: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/357728-merged-coast-jet-aka-johnston-aviation-rip.html the guys that paid upfront never got there money back either, it's a real ****ty situation, but it just needs to be reiterated NEVER pay upfront, for those that paid by credit card it's a little brighter as you can go directly to the bank that issued the card and put in a dispute for goods or services not received take receipts and statements and proof that SFTC is in administration, but as an unsecured creditor to sftc don't hold your breath about getting your money back or the training you already paid for.:ok:

[KopitePilot]

I know I'm screwed for the money now. I'm just spending my time over the next week or so before I start with a new school making sure that everybody knows what Barry Diamond has been up to and trying to prevent him form screwing with anybody elses career. All avenues are being explored at the moment!

[GADRIVR]

HTFU
An accurate post insofar as I can see, however I think that employees come under a different classification and therefore will get some say as to whether the company will be wound up, put under administration and turned around thence sold or put under administration thence placed back in the hands of the directors.
What is most important is what company is the AOC associated with?
Hope that is of help.

Kopite Pilot,
If you need further help PM me.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Not the Barry Diamond?

[KopitePilot]

Yes indeed THE Barry Diamond!

Update: The school is now shut. They were hiring out the Liberty's to students for $210.00 an hour, however somebody informed ASIC and also the bank of this fact who have shut them down. I am also lead to believe that the planes were being flown without insurance!

As ever Barry Diamond is blaming everybody else for whats gone wrong. There is a creditors meeting next Thursday, date and time TBC.

In the mean time, students are advised by ACPET to wait until Monday for ACPET to email them with details of any next step. Students should NOT enroll with another school at this time, and should hold off from listing themselves as a creditor at this time.

the Facebook site is being updated as and when we have further information to pass on to students and staff.

[greentea84]

Amazing that this kind of thing can happen. I would be livid and wanting blood. Best of luck to you all.

Just out of curiosity, are there any large schools left that are not out to screw people over?

[Atlas Shrugged]

employees come under a different classification and therefore will get some say as to whether the company will be wound up,

Get something straight - Totally unrelated to this thread, employees, unless shareholders or directors in ANY company have NO SAY WHATEVER in whether or not a company will be wound up.

[Ultralights]

How much do they owe you? whats a Liberty worth? without insurance you say? hmmmmm

[KopitePilot]

They owe me about twenty grand in training, and I'm by no means the worst off of the students. A Liberty is worth about two hundred grand (I wouldnt give you ten cents for one mind), but the aircraft are all owned by the bank.

They've now been telling the foreign students to change from a student visa to a tourist visa and register with thier new company AATC and give them more money to finish thier training. Staggering!

[D B Cooper]

.......hmm, its a while ago now, but I do seem to remember somethin' I read... let's see... ahhhh..yeah, Hobart Mercury it was, ages ago.. perhaps, oohh... 15/5/1985... front page, - in fact a few front pages around then... couldn't be the same bloke!

[Homesick-Angel]

This whole thread reads like a nightmare..I hope the guys who got screwed can get sorted somehow.
Good luck, and if you can , nail the person/s responsible to the wall...

:mad:

[GA715]

What? Is he a hero or something? :E

[D B Cooper]

No, GA 715 ... I don't think there was any heroics involved in that story, more like your "or something" catagory. That would be going on your assunption that the two ARE related.
I'm thinking back on that story, now....gee - it was a long time ago, and you'd think everyone would have forgotten by now.. ...but I seem to recall there were a lot of people who paid upfront... ah.. for something that (somehow) didn't happen. And, then I think there were a lot of angry people... hmmm.
You will be correct if you have assumed that because I was reading newspapers in 1985, that I am of, errr, advancing years. So my thoughts are turning my retirement, and I was thinking of moving to a nice quiet little out of the way place somewhere - maybe along the Murray River someplace.... Tocumwal looks nice, I will certainly be going down there to have a reeeeeaallly good look around. GA 715, I've read some of your other posts, and you seem like a bright young thing. Do you know anything about Tocumwal?
Oh gosh! Look at that thread drift, that's what happens when you get old, he, he, he, what does Tocumwal have to do with this thread? Time for my nap.

[KopitePilot]

Tocumwal is where Mr Diamond is aiming to set up his new school AATC. He actually started to opperate out of there about a month ago, sending a number of instructors and students down and putting them up in Motels etc, he's even gone to the trouble of renting a house and transporting much of the equipment used by the students at SFTC (such as the sim) down there, as well as thier training files! Of course this was done with out any consultation with CASA, infact they didn't even know until somebody tipped them off - we believe it was one of the local opperators. Of course there was no AOC in place for this new location, and infact there were no facilities. The opperation was being run out of the boots of instructors cars, and also by taking advantage of the local flying club's clubhouse. Needless to say within a week two instructors had left due to not getting paid, there were 2 Liberty aircraft sat in need of service which were not going sorted out and there were 15 students who Diamond had grounded for various reasons, so they were sat by the Motel pool wondering what the hell they were doing in a place which to them was the middle of no-where. These were international students from India and Malaysia who had paid to study in Sydney.

I've been told the reason he was 'dobbed in' to CASA by the local opperator dates back to Diamond having a gentlemans agreement in place to purchase the flying school and facilities when he moved in new opperation down there. Of course gentleman and Diamond don't seem to go hand in hand, so this agreement was forgotten leaving the hoping to reitre owner of the Tocumwal school in the lurch - nobody to buy his business and a competetor on site at the airfield, which obviously would put off potential buyers.

People in Tocumwal hopefully are starting to wake up to the man and learn of his ways, so if you do venture down with luck he'll have been ran out of town!

As for the place, if it's a quiet reitrement you fancy then it's about perfect - Murray River, Golf, a few good little pubs and great flying :-)

[deano65]

Any news re the status of SFTC? I drove past there last weekend...the old premises...dead as the proverbial.....they sent me an invoice for an account I paid over 12 months ago......

[D B Cooper]

There seems to be millions of dollars owing, and not much chance that any of the creditors will see anything of their hard earned. I hear that the propietor has had the good fortune of having been able to set up somewhere else though. Anyone know anything more????

[Tiger626]

Would love to know who the administrator is for SFTC; Mr Diamond owes me some money too!!

[Tiger626]

They moved from the big green hangar to Hangar 650 Drover Road - I drove past this one a few days ago and the only sign of life was the tyre tracks in the car park.

[Superfly Slick Dick]

The name of the person responsible for the administration work is 'Anthony R Cant'.
Romanis Cant is the company.
Romanis Cant chartered accountsnts (http://www.romaniscant.com.au/)

[Captain Sand Dune]

Karma's a bitch, isn't it Barry?:}

[D B Cooper]

Does anyone have an update on this fiasco? How have the out of pocket students fared, for instance?

[KopitePilot]

Not sure on the students - apparently the overseas will either get placed in an alternative school or some money back, but I understand from a local that they will get nothing - maddness that somebody looking to work and pay taxes in the country gets nothing whereas an overseas pupil who is here for 12 months gets everything.

As for the owner, rumour has it that he's already up and running in Tocumwal currently doing an instructor rating.

[MACRO Recruitment]

Hello,
I am reference checking an ex-staff person from the Sydney Flight Training Centre. As you can imagine, I am having no luck locating Barry.

Would anyone in this forum be able to contact me in regards to reference checking staff from within their Maintenance / operations area?
1300 083 488, ask for MACRO's aviation recruitment team.

Thank you in advance

[transition_alt]

Barry is currently the Chief Ground Instructor at a "prestigious" Melbourne flying school.

Doing an excellent job as well!

[BlatantLiar]

Every lesson does he reiterate that he flew A-4s in the navy?

[A wing and a prayer]

No longer at the "Prestigious" flying school, in Melbourne mind you a fancy name doesn't imply any standards or quality outcomes.
Apparently he needed to leave there, for reasons.
Not surprised. Used to work with him, a useful as a chocolate tea pot

[D B Cooper]

Gee, that's too bad!
Where's the old fellah gonna go now?

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I rather think you will find it is a serious health problem that you would not wish on anybody.
Tootle pip!!

[Ascend Charlie]

Barry, or "The little round mound of sound", was my instructor back in 1972, so he must be in his 70s by now.

[B772]

Is Barry now a ground instructor with CAE in Sydney ?

[dogcharlietree]

This wouldn't be the infamous Barry Diamond (JC's gift to aviation) that suspended Rod Lovell's Licence and DC-3 endorsement 9 weeks after his ditching, would it?

[dogcharlietree]

This guy is amazing. After leaving a trail of destruction, he keeps popping up.
https://www.lethbridgeairport.com.au/about-us/our-business-partners

[Sunfish]

Thank you. Lethbridge is now off my “places to visit” list.