Operating Cost for C150 or PA28?

[V1 VR V2]

Hi Guys,

Im looking for a rough guide to operating costs of a C150 and PA28 and have looked on google etc and cant find anything specific!

If anyone knows what the costs would be for insurance, maintenance, hourly fuel costs and CofA.

Any feedback greatly appreciated in advance :ok:

[KeesM]

For my C150 roughly:
Insurance: €1100,-/year
Maintenance: it depends
Hourly fuel costs: Mogas 19l x €1.6= €30/hr, Avgas 19l x €2.3=€44/hr
CofA including 100hr check and avionics: €900,-

-Kees

[englishal]

Similar aeroplane to PA28 (O320 160HP):

Annual £1800
50 hrs £300
Insurance £1400
Hangarage / airfield use £1500
Repairs £500
32L Avgas per hour

[Weekend Flyer]

True costs for a C150 based in South of U.K. over last 12 months:

Insurance £ 1,056.00
Radio Licence £ 20.00
Maintenance £ 3,267.92
Airport Fees £ 3,195.04


Plus fuel, say 21 litres per hour (actual burn usually less), and this covers pretty much all that you need except for the occasional litre of oil between changes.


Don't forget to allow for an engine fund towards the eventual replacement/refurbishment and remember that the airframe will need respraying about every ten years.

[UV]

Privately owned PA 28 Warrior always £10,000 per year. 100 hours flying.
Average total hourly cost of a light single is 2.5 X cost of fuel per hour.
UV

[englishal]

Including fuel? Sounds pretty expensive to me otherwise!

[dont overfil]

What UV says.
Cost me £10000/yr PA28 181 Transport Cof A 250 hrs/yr plus fuel.
Two consecutive annuals cost £5500 & £4500 plus VAT. Insurance for club use £2100
Aircraft was 22 years old.
DO.

[UV]

Englishal, if you are refering to my post then, as I say, total cost!
UV

[Pilot DAR]

My Cessna 150M annual cost (Canadian $)

Insurance: $1600

Hanger (free at home, but worth): $900

Annual Inspection: +-$1000

Annual recalibration of altimeter/txp $250

Mags: $100

Alternator: $75

Engine reserve: $500

Cosmetic reserve: $500

= $4925 fixed costs per year, plus +-$20 per hour Mogas and oil

So, if I fly 100 hours a year: $70 per hour total cost...

and worth every penny! The best plane I could hope to have, owned it for 23 years...

Pilot DAR

[jonburf]

hi.
why not consider a pa38-112 tomahawk
it's a far more spacious aircraft compared to a 152 and much more rewarding to fly.
costs for a year
£1800 annual with radio etc
insurance for a PPL IMC with 160 hours £840
21 liters an hour
very reliable.

[flybymike]

But they don't call them a traumahawk for nothing.

[silvereagle]

Cessna 150L

Annual - last one cost £3900 but various parts were needed. This year (ARC renewal and annual/150 hr service should be under £1800)
50 hr checks - do them yourself, so just the cost of oil (+£50 for an engineer to oversee).
Insurance - £900 (2 named drivers plus any instructor/examiner) with Traffords
Fuel - 23 litres an hour seems to cover starts/taxy time/flying time
Hangarage - got my own so zero
Ongoing maintenence - pay for whatever goes wrong. Our costs have been £480. Engine - ditto.

Actual costs this year based on 110 hours is £48/hr

[jollyrog]

My group has just been given a £10,000+ bill for an annual on (what I think) is generally a very well maintained PA28.

Bad things can happen.

[Pilot DAR]

I hope the £10,000+ bill came with a well detailed description of the work accomplished. Sure sounds like a comprehensive amount to me - there must be an accompanying explanation!

Tomahawk is very good aircraft, as long as really short or rough runways aren't in your flying plans, and you get some conversion training in one. If someone has been traumatized in one of these aircraft, I would suggest it was a result of inadequate training or technique - not the plane itself. Different planes do have different characteristics, it's up to pilots to learn them well, then those pilots won't be traumatized. I know this because I checked myself out on that type, and should have sought training - good plane, foolish me!

Pilot DAR

[gyrotyro]

Looking at those bills seems like another good reason to dump Part M aircraft and go the LAA route.

At £5000/£10,000 for an Annual Inspection, barmy ! You would end up buying the aircraft again every three years. At those prices rent instead.

The figures just don't stack up.

Once the "Engineers" see their flock dwindling they will have to sit up and take notice.

Vote with your wings and ditch them, would you allow your car garage to fleece you in the same way ?

[oversteer]

Based on a figure I saw elsewhere that Cessna 150's require an overhaul every 1,800 hours..

Other than the 'safety first' aspect, why is that the engines require such extensive work in such a short time? cf a car engine, which if serviced correctly will last 250k+ without issue.. Especially as I percieve aircraft engines to be less complicated than car engines, and rev a lot lower :confused:

[Pilot DAR]

The 1800 hour overhaul time on the O-200 (and similar for nearly all other such engines) is a manufacturer's recommended interval. In Canada, and other placed I'm sure, it is only mandatory for commercially operated engines. Private aircraft can operate "on condition". My O-200 went happily to more than 3600 hours (with some interm cylinder work). At that point, I opened it up because I found some ferrous metal in the filter, the source of which could not be confirmed. It turned out that the engine was magnificent inside, and it was only a crimped on cover on the alternator drive making the metel (which really had nothing whatever to do with the critical internal workings of the engine). If taken care of, those engines have an amazing life span, because, yes, run properly, they really don't work that hard compared to a modern car engine!

Pilot DAR

[Blink182]

gyrotyro wrote........Once the "Engineers" see their flock dwindling they will have to sit up and take notice.I think you will find that it the real culprit of higher costs is directly down to the regulators...ie CAA and EASA

[worrab]

1800 hours is the car equivalent of around 60,000 miles. If you remember cars with engines designed 40 years ago you'll recall that all sorts of maintenance was required to get them to go anything like 100k miles - and whilst you can get a car back on three cylinders, aircraft tend to take exception.

[A and C]

The C150 may be cheap to buy but it has a bit of a sting in the tail with corrosion issues around the main landing gear support that can cost a lot to fix, the C152 may cost a little more to buy but it is a very "sorted" aircraft with few AD's and most of the C150 "mistakes" corrected and an engine with a TBO of 2400 hours.

Flybymike The "traumahawk" as you call it was from a flying instruction point of view the best GA trainer to come out of the USA in the last thirty years, unfortunatly it now suffers from product support issues due to the 13000 hour spar life. This issue alone deters companys from producing parts for the aircraft and so makes it unatractive for a high use operation.

Gyrotyro I think you should take notice of Bllink182 today I spent 2 hours in the hangar fixing aircraft and 6 hours pushing paper for this EASA part M. Not only is part M costing the customer lots of money but it is also taking the experienced engineers away from supervising and checking the quality of the work to push paper, the result is going to be that some companys are going to suffer a reduction of oversight on the hangar floor.

Oversteer Aircraft engines run most of the time at 65-75% of max power output, a car engine spends most of it's working life producing 25% of rated power, Aircraft engines also spend a lot of time doing nothing, this lack of use is a killer when it comes to corrosion and finaly when your 200,000 mile car engine fails with a big bang you get out and walk, if an aircraft engine fails your survival is just a roll of the dice!

[JUST-local]

1800 hours @ 90 knots = 162000 Nautical miles = 186545 Statute miles!

Pretty amazing really and they nearly all run perfectly well for even longer :)

The Lyc. 0-235 as mentioned above in the 152 goes for 2880 hours (nearly 300000 miles!!!) with a bit of care and service, regular use is the key.

EASA - Look around, my base airfield is like a ghost town compared to a few years ago. Many groups and private owners have sold their aircraft, they have voted against EASA by simply walking away. Whats round the corner?

[flybymike]

1800 hours @ 90 knots = 162000 Nautical miles = 186545 Statute miles!


But not in a headwind ;)

[albatros19]

How bout AOC?? I believe aircraft owner need AOC to operate the aircraft and i know its a long process to obtain one?

[Shunter]

AOC only required for public transport operations. Private owners and flying schools have no need for such things.

[Gazza65]

Good afternoon.

I was just searching the Internet as I am thinking of getting into the world of flying.
In your blog you have Engine resere and Cosmetic reserve at 400 or 500.

What is that for

Regards,

Garry

[mbornestav]

Good afternoon.

I was just searching the Internet as I am thinking of getting into the world of flying.
In your blog you have Engine resere and Cosmetic reserve at 400 or 500.

What is that for

Regards,

Garry

It's a fund where users of the airplane deposit money for every hour of usage, so that there is enough money for engine overhaul and costs regarding the paint/look of the airplane, when the time comes to fix it.

[Tinstaafl]

Gazza, some items have an expensive & finite, if somewhat elastic, lifetime. A reserve is a way to account for a future $$ hit when that expensive item falls due. If the engine has a 2000hr recommended overhaul interval and it costs $20,000 to overhaul, you need to put away $10/hr for each hour flown if you're starting from a 0hr engine. If you fly 100hrs/year then you need to reserve $1000/yr to cover the anticipated cost. This presumes the engine will make it to that overhaul period. It could last longer, but it could also have something happen before then. If you bought the plane with a half life engine, then you have to double your reserve in order to have the funds accounted for when the engine reaches it TBO. In private operations, TBO is usually recommended, however it at least gives you some idea to plan for the 'how long is a length of string' expected lifetime.

If a paint job costs $10,000, and is expected to last 10 years, then you have to set aside $1000/yr for that future cost.

[ChickenHouse]

At the original poster: please refine "ops costs". What are you aiming, total cost or pure operational costs or commercially calculated including depreciation? It you go for Total Cost of Ownership, my real world guestimate numbers are £115 per flight hour for a C150 and £150 for C172/PA28 at 100 flight hours per year.

[rudestuff]

The more you fly it, the cheaper it gets. Which is why you can get a c150 share and pay £60 an hour wet plus £130 a month, which is much cheaper than if you own it.

[Ebbie 2003]

Mine a PA28-181

Insurance including hull US$6,000

Annual Euros 2,500

Re Trust GBP 35

Maintenance US $1,000 oil, filters etc (cost 500 just to get a case of oil here)

I flew about 60 hours - so a scary amount per hour - but less than it would have cost to rent - but I do not need to work about getting it back at a particular time.

​​​​​​​

[foxmoth]

I would also recommend an LAA aircraft, maintenance costs are a fraction of figures quoted and engine goes on condition, often the aircraft will fly better and perform better than a Cessna or Piper as well.

[gordonquinn]

I would also recommend an LAA aircraft, maintenance costs are a fraction of figures quoted and engine goes on condition, often the aircraft will fly better and perform better than a Cessna or Piper as well.


Out of interest, any you would recommend looking at? say for a budget of £15k-£20k. I had seen a few with Jabiru 2200s e.g. Jabiru 430, 450 or a few Pulsar, not sure if they can be registered as LAA though or only microloght, I just don't know enough about it to be honest!

[Maoraigh1]

Consider LAA Permit aircraft which were factory built. I've just bought a second share in such an aircraft.

[gyrotyro]

Not in the OP but my Europa XS Tri-Gear costs £23 an hour for fuel at 120 knots (130 knots with spats on) £750 a year for insurance (£50K hull value) and £400 a year for annual inspection and LAA fees.

The new rules also mean the aircraft can be flown at night and in IMC, also training and paying flights can be made by non owners.

Never going back to C of A aircraft again

[rudestuff]

What about engine fund for the rotax?

[gyrotyro]

What about engine fund for the rotax?


Factor in whatever you like it will still come out a country mile cheaper than any c of a aircraft.


Ok it’s about £8 an hour for engine fund. My aircraft engine has done 90 hours and TBO is 2000 but wait, LAA engines can be run on condition!

[gordonquinn]

Not in the OP but my Europa XS Tri-Gear costs £23 an hour for fuel at 120 knots (130 knots with spats on) £750 a year for insurance (£50K hull value) and £400 a year for annual inspection and LAA fees.

The new rules also mean the aircraft can be flown at night and in IMC, also training and paying flights can be made by non owners.

Never going back to C of A aircraft again

That sounds exactly what I'm looking for, I've seen some 912s on AFORS for about £20k-£25k which I would up my budget to get with those speeds and capabilities.
Any tips on looking for a good one?

[Coda]

I am almost done on my PPL(A), I'm just waiting for my paperwork to be finished so I can go for my checkride. However, most of my ~75 hours were in a Tecnam P2002JF, the certified version of the P2002 Sierra and I have also flown the C150 and a couple of C152's (one of which was an aerobat) when the Tecnam was in maintenance.

These Rotax powered machines are cheap to run (17-18 l/ph Mogas or Avgas), quite powerful (less than 1.5l engine size for almost the same power output as a ~4 litre lyco). They're cheaper to maintain, and you can have all the glass cockpit stuff if that floats your boat.


I decided I really prefer flying the Tecnam although you can be lazy in the Cessna with rudder coordination if you want. Not so in the Tecnam, it's lighter, slippier, and you have to fly it properly. Also you can buy a non-cert version for half the price of the certified JF, and if the Sierra doesn't quite do it for you, these days there are quite a few types with a similar mission available. When I first went to this school and found they used the Tecnam I was disappointed at first, until I'd also flown the C152 (a "Real Aircraft®" as some have told me) and I realised it wasn't any more of a "Real Aircraft®" than the Tecnam is.

TL;DR - I think LAA is the future, I don't fly in the UK (yet, that's for another thread) but everything I read these days seems to indicate that the CAA is doing everything it can to make life more difficult, complicated, and expensive.