Advice on Print Servers Please

[mcdhu]

As you may have seen from my thread entitled 'Difficulty Printing via Wireless', Mad Jock, SD and others have pointed out that Xp Home will only support up to 5 attached devices and I am over that. I therefore need a print server. This is where I need advice.

The network is a main Dell PC with a Canon Pixma MP520 attached via USB and all the attached devices - laptops i-touches etc are connected via a Netgear DG834Gv3 wireless modem router and the laptops share the printer. All running Xp Home SP3.

I am not too adept at all this so I am looking for something which will not be too taxing to set up. The research on the www so far leads me to the following observatione.

The Canon only has USB ie no serial port.

It is a multi function device and so requires 2 way and is not wireless capable.

Netgear have something called a PS121 which seems to fit the bill.

Any comments/ suggestions/ thought gratefully received.

Thank you and cheers!
mcdhu

[mixture]

How about something of German manufacture ?

Haven't played with their USB models, but have played with their other kit and was very easy to set up.

SEH Print Servers (http://www.seh.de/english/products/wireless_index.htm)

These are USB Device servers and so can be used with more than just printers, apparently.

UPDATE: for some reason, the link above does not take you to the right page, please use the products menu and click on the "USB Device server" option (don't select any of the items on the little sub-menu and you will get an overview page of their USB products).

[Bushfiva]

You could patch tcpip.sys to get around the limit. I'd imagine googling for EventID 4226 Patcher Version 2.23d (english), might be worthwhile. You would want to read your license to see whether you think this contravenes its terms.

[srobarts]

The Netgear printer compatibilty list (http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1093) says that
Multifunction printers such as combination printer/copier/fax only support the printing function.

Except as noted, bidirectional features, such as reporting ink status to networked computers, are not supported.

We have a SEH printer server (http://www.myutn.de/english/startpage/index.html) which has their UTN protocol to link USB bi-directionally. It works well with our A3 Epson printer and Konica Minolta laser printer which other print servers do not support.
Hope that helps.

[Saab Dastard]

Netgear print servers are designed primarily for printing, not for multi-function devices. It is quite possible that only the print functionality will work, not scanning. You can get network MFP servers from other vendors, but they tend to be a little more expensive.

SD

[jimtherev]

I can cofirm what SD writes: I use a PS121, and it is pretty-well unidirectional. Once set up (and this can be a struggle: it's not intuitive - or at least to my intuition anyway) it's rock solid - I just print. But, no, for a multifunctional device I fear you need to look further. Sorry

[Saab Dastard]

MFP devices need network servers such as Edimax or Silex (they make one specifically for Canon MFPs).

SD

[Mike-Bracknell]

Why not just go for Windows 7 Professional?

~£80ish, and would solve your 5 device limit and any future limits.

[mcdhu]

Thanks Mike-B. Would that have to be on all the devices (PCs and Lappies) or could it be only on the main PC to which the printer is attached?

Bit of a minefield, this - to a novice!

Thanks
mcdhu

[Saab Dastard]

You could just put it on the main PC to which the printer is attached.

However, it is not as functional a solution as providing a dedicated MFP network server. For a start, the main PC has to be on to use the printer, which may be quite wasteful and inconvenient.

SD

[Background Noise]

Yes, this is the sort of thing you need - I ran one of these for a multi-function Epson and it provided wireless printing and scanning, but had a slight hiccup with the latest Mac OS but worked fine with windows. I've now gone to a wireless printer.

Edimax PS-1206MFg - Wireless USB MFP Server (http://www.edimax.co.uk/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=24&pl1_id=7&pl2_id=33)

[mcdhu]

At last - email back from Silex confirming that the c-6700WG is the answer and a nice man from WML here in UK spent 20 mins telling me how to configure/install it. Let's hope it works!!

Thanks again all,
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

Good to see that you are getting on top of a proper solution to your problem. And not as most do a cobbled together soft bodge job which will be as future proof as a mars bar on the beach in the Med during summer.

Happy Printing/scanning etc

MJ

[mcdhu]

Thanks MJ. I have the w/e off to read the instructions and then a day off on Mon with wife at work, kids at school to take the plunge!! The nice man at The Silex agents in UK (William Matthew Limited) said to ring him if any probs and he would help. Good service fron both. What a breath of fresh air! I'll report back!

Regards all
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

read the instructions

takes out half the fun of it.

Take it out of the box plug it in apart from the USB cables. Turn computer on, stick in the disk and then see what installs. Taking advanced options at all times and going with default if you don't understand what it is on about.

Once that's finished plug in the USB and say out loud "work ya bastard" works with 95% of IT equipment I have ever installed.

[itwasme]

I realise you've bought your Silex now, but a rather cheaper option if you don't need built in wireless (or if you already have a wireless hub) is the TP-link TL-PS310U. You can attach up to 4 usb devices to it using a cheap USB hub (not included). It works a treat with my Pixma IP4600 colour printer and my Epson V200 Scanner. It also handles my unbranded webcam.

Very easy to install - job done in 20 mins max. Retails at about 25 quid.

Good luck.

Edit. Oh yeah, works fine with Win7 32 & 64 bit too.

[Keef]

TP-link TL-PS310U

Do I understand right? If I have one of these and connect my two printers and the scanner to it, will the desktop and the laptop both have independent access to them, and be able to use them and receive "out of paper" and such messages as required?

That would be seriously useful here!

I did look at the website but I didn't find those answers there. I don't even know what an MFP is (well I do, but not in the computer context).

[itwasme]

Keef,

yes, your understanding is correct.

Just to make sure of my facts, I've just printed a page from my laptop connect over wireless on my Pixma printer whilst simultaneously scanning a doc on the V200 from my desktop. The operation was faultless. Laptop is Win7 32bit, desktop Win7 64bit. Drivers are supplied for XP/Vista, but work fine with the new Windows.

All software/driver functions work as if connected by usb ie. the pixma told me it was out of paper, that I hadn't open the front tray and showed me the ink levels. Scanner operation was similarly normal.

I should just point out that only one pc can have "ownership" of a device at any time, unlike an office printer where tasks are queued, but this isn't a problem for a SOHO environment. "Ownership" is via a small app that runs on each pc on the network which shows the devices available and their status. Connecting/disconnecting to a device takes a second or so.

The device itself is tiny - about 2/3 the size of a packet of fags. I've connected mine to a similarly small HP 4-port hub which cost about 4 quid from ebay. As I have a wireless AP on my network, it works wirelessly, as described.

Installation consists of plugging it into the network (router/switch) and running the installation software. Connect the hub/device(s) to the usb port on the 310u and connect one pc at a time to the device (printer/scanner etc) the via the installed app. At this point you install the device software/drivers for you device (printer, scanner etc). Bob's your uncle...etc.

I hope that's useful to you, any questions, please get back to me. I don't think there are too many vendors out there, but I can PM you a link if you need one.

Cheers.

BTW I presume an MFP in this case to be a multi-function printer ie printer/scanner/fax/tea maker/shoe-shiner device all in one.

[Keef]

Thanks!

Duly ordered one. Four devices works nicely - the two printers, the scanner, and the "security" webcam.

Interesting that the regular suppliers wanted about £12 P&P. One advertised ex VAT - £21 headline price, £37 delivered. I paid £25 on Ebay.

I decided that by MFP they must mean multi-function peripheral. I do get so confused with TLAs at my age :(

[itwasme]

Glad to be of assistance. Any problems, just drop me a line.

[mad_jock]

Have you get it working yet?

[mcdhu]

Thanks for the interest MJ. Sadly not! If it's ok with you, I'll PM you with the saga rather than bore the rest of the community with my IT inadequacies. Away in the sim at the mo - be in touch on Fri PM.

Regards
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

Nah mate it adds to the group knowledge if you do it on this thread.

I have been out of the business for 7 years now, its quite good having Saab and others as top cover for when I am talking bollocks.

What your trying to do is a medium level solution to a problem, its a proper fix not a bodge job. Nothing to be embarrassed about if it is not playing. There are quite a few IT highly payed contractors I used to work with who it would hit and miss chucking them the box and telling them to make it so.

Have fun in the sim.

PS I am in +3 timezone.

[Keef]

My TP-link TL-PS310U is apparently on its way (like me). Several items bought last week with "48 hour delivery" hadn't arrived a week later, so maybe it'll be there when I get back home. I'll report back.

Please keep us informed about the Silex: it's all part of the learning experience and "what works/what doesn't" database!

[jimtherev]

Lurking on this thread, I thought to meself: a bi-directional server - good, esp. as I can then link 'er indoors to the scanner and me to the photo printer rather than the rather convoluted 'shared printer route I've used so far. (I have a Netgear PS121 connected to the laser, which is rock solid, and useable by us both, but can only handle one USB connection and is unidirectional.)

So, Like Keef, I ordered a TP Link. Arrived this morning, and installed with only minor looking-for-software pauses. Good. On both computers. Good, er, not so good.

Turns out that if I print a page from my m/c, I have to 'release' that link before 'er m/c can use the printer. Since we typically have sessions when we're both working like mad, printing a few random pages each here and there, this is a nuisance.

I'm wondering if I can play with some 'time out' function in the server to 'release' the link, without then having to log back on again to print.

No more time to play now, but if anyone has useful comments to hurry things up, then fine; otherwise I'll report back / wait to see how Keef gets on with the beestie.

[mcdhu]

The Silex is back in its box in the cupboard awaiting another go when I am moved to do it. What happened? OK - there were 4 phases to the installation.
1. Connect Product to the network - ie Silex to router with cable. Easy
2. Initial confuguration which went fine too.
3. Install the application - a bit of a faff for those not too gifted with all this, but ok.
4. Use the Canon printer - this is where it went wrong. Could I 'connect' the various PCs Laptops etc to the printer? NO! All was done iaw the on screen instructions etc so no real clue as to what went wrong.

Anyway, back to the drawing board, but a total uninstall/reinstall of the previous config has resulted, thus far, in the lad not being kicked off the printer yet. Maybe applying the latest drivers for the printer has helped.

I'll have another go when I have time, but thus far no need.
We live and learn - still!
Cheers
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

Well this is what I would do

1. Turn all PC's off and silex and reboot router

2. Turn silex on. Then once its up and running 1 PC

3. Go to router config page

192.0.0.1 in a browser or something like that if you don't have an icon for it.

Look at the status page and it should give you attached devices. The first one should be your silex look for its MAC code its a heap of hex numbers and write it down.

Now on your router there should be a config page to allow you to assign a fixed IP address if you put in that MAC address you wrote down and give it a fixed IP address with the 3 first sets of numbers the same as the status page but ending this time in 100 for the last three numbers.

Then reboot router then silex again.

The reason for this is because everything prefers a fixed IP address for a network resource many don't bother but its pretty bullet proof if you can be bothered and also helps trouble shooting. I always do this with fixed resources others don't and may say you don't need to bother but it has always been worth it in my opinion.

Quick check of the router and make sure its been assigned the new IP address ending in 100.

Also make sure that the first 3 sets of numbers are also the same.

When starting your silex configuration ensure the DHCP is checked in the network box.

Then if you get a cmd box up (the old dos box)

type "ping xxx.xxx.xxx.100" and it should come up with a heap of bollocks about packets and times. If it doesn't report back here.

What this does is check that the 2 boxes can talk to each other over TCP/IP.

Then follow the instructions for the client software.

I have a sneaky feeling its a IP network problem that once you have sorted that out the rest will work.

This is the installation manual I have found on line. http://www.silexeurope.com/media/setup-guides/c6700wg_setupguide_eu.pdf

Please do try it again but I can understand you have better things to do.


I do apologise if my instructions don't follow logically to you.

I find it quite hard putting in writing what seems to me a logical troubleshooting flow.

Feel free anyone to pick holes or add steps to make it easier to understand.

[itwasme]

Jimtherev,

I must point out that I did mention the fact that only one pc at a time can control the peripheral in my post:

"I should just point out that only one pc can have "ownership" of a device at any time, unlike an office printer where tasks are queued, but this isn't a problem for a SOHO environment. "Ownership" is via a small app that runs on each pc on the network which shows the devices available and their status. Connecting/disconnecting to a device takes a second or so."

I doubt you'll find any print server will offer anything better as we are, after all, talking about devices designed to operate over usb connected to a single pc.

Perhaps you need to improve your communication skills - ie learn to shout to each other across the room/house!

Best wishes.

[mcdhu]

M_J Thank you for taking the time to set out your method. The link you posted was the same as the hard copy which came in the box.

I will give it another go and I've printed off you instructions since it may be a little while. LoCo keeps us all fairly busy as I'm sure you know and these things are time consuming however good you are with it all.

Again, thanks for your help.

Cheers
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

Know where your coming from earlies then lates and the last thing you want to do when you get home is fanny about with a print server.

[jimtherev]

Thanks, itwasme. Yes, I did read that in your first post, but didn't take on board the full implication.

Actually, one of the attractions of the Netgear device is that it does do "better" than that. It doesn't ask who's in possession - it just sees a print command - and if there's more than one, then it queues 'em, like a good'un. So, it's back to the Netgear ps for our routine stuff (I did typo then 'routing' - the great thing is we don't have to worry about routes or ownership nor nuffin - it just works transparently: hence my disappointment with the TP device.)

I will still use the TP for stuff like the scanner and photo printer and an extra webcam, in which Mrs jtr has no interest.

As for shouting at one another... the muttering's bad enough, thank you very much :).

Thanks anyway.

[Keef]

Yep, I had the same experience as Jim. This evening I installed the device, which was waiting for me at the Post Office when I got back home.

It works sort-of: the first faff was that it wants to be 192.168.0.10 and if you need to use anything different (which I do) then you have to read the instructions for your computer - not for the device. Since there weren't any instructions for my computer (ever), I told the router about this orphan device, and all was well on that score.

That done, and the software having installed itself about four times (no idea why, it just wanted to), the desktop and the laptop could print through it.

It seemed quite happy to have my high-speed USB hub connected to it, and could see that there were devices there.

Snag one: the USB scanner wasn't in its vocabulary. That was an "oh bother". I didn't connect any of the other potential "shared USB devices" pending further investigation.

The second snag was the faff to use it. Having to start the software, connect, print, disconnect and shut down the software each time proved too much of a pain after about ten minutes.

It's back in its box and the printers and scanner are connected direct to the desktop again. As far as the two computers are concerned, there are two printers in the room and I can "just print" to them as long as the desktop is switched on (which it almost always is).

Anyone want a TP-LINK TL-PS310U, fifteen minutes use, known to be working OK on 1 December 2009?

[mad_jock]

As a suggestion mchdu.

If I was in the country I would say send it to me to scare it into working.

Maybe one of the other PPruners could have a go at making it work.

[jimtherev]

Actually, Keef, mine didn't insist it was 192 168 etc: I work on 10.0.0. etc and it accepted that and configured itself as ...8 without any intervention from me. The inst. manual does say it tries to be DHCP client; it did... yours was obviously 'avin a mood.

As I said, for the time being I'll use it as a network extension, and see if, later, I can use some bullying tactix on it to make it bend to my will.

But no, Keef, I don't want another one!

[itwasme]

Jim,
"Yes, I did read that in your first post, but didn't take on board the full implication."
May I suggest - RTFP twice?:ugh:

The Netgear WILL work better for you in your scenario, but only with a max of 3 PCs and with only UNIDIRECTIONAL support. The OP was looking for bi-directional support for an unspecified number of users.

Keef,

"It works sort-of: the first faff was that it wants to be 192.168.0.10 and if you need to use anything different (which I do) then you have to read the instructions for your computer - not for the device. Since there weren't any instructions for my computer (ever), I told the router about this orphan device, and all was well on that score."

If you read the instructions, it uses dhcp unless there is no dhcp server available. in which case it defaults to 192.168.0.10. It has to have an IP address, after all.

"That done, and the software having installed itself about four times (no idea why, it just wanted to), the desktop and the laptop could print through it."

If you're running Win 7 install as admin and once installed run in compatability mode for Vista SP1.

"It seemed quite happy to have my high-speed USB hub connected to it, and could see that there were devices there."

Good.

"Snag one: the USB scanner wasn't in its vocabulary. That was an "oh bother". I didn't connect any of the other potential "shared USB devices" pending further investigation."

You're under a false impression here - it doesn't have a "vocabulary", library or database - it simply presents the connected USB device to the PC on a virtual USB port. It is up to you then to provide it with the necessary drivers, just as if you had attached the device directly to your machine. Obviously, you must do this after selecting "connect" in the software and on each machine.

"The second snag was the faff to use it. Having to start the software, connect, print, disconnect and shut down the software each time proved too much of a pain after about ten minutes."

This one really makes me wonder what sort of operation you're running - SOHO or enterprise? Firstly, you can set the "MFP and Storage Server" utility to run at start up if you really think that a second or two for it to run is that bad. Connecting takes a similar time, as does disconnecting. As for shutting the software down afterwards.....are your machines really so lame that this little exe can't be left running?

I must tell you that I'm most disappointed with your posts. I offered the OP a realistic and cost-effective solution for his requirement for a bi-directional print server. Despite a personal offer of assistance if required, you have sought to rubbish the product without taking the time to read and digest my post or the manufacturer's instructions.

I have no connection to TP-link or the products. I only offered information with the best of intentions. I shall think twice in future.

[jimtherev]

So it's slapped btm and off to bed with no tea for both of us, Keef.

Seriously, there's really no need to get aggressive about this, itwasme. What I was doing, for the sake of the community on this board, was reporting back to the community my experience with the beestie: it could be that others had not realised the implication of your initial post.

On a wider, maybe philosophical, point, I don't know enough about data handling to really argue this, but... surely it should not be impossible to make this process seamless without switching on another process and switching it off when you have done with it? Asking six or seven times a night 'Can I print something now, dear?' would be tedious in the extreme - and IMHO should be unnecessary. I spent my engineering life designing control equipment in a number of fields (though not digital) and the brief I gave myself was: 'switch it on, and it will work with the minimum of fuss' without the user knowing or caring how many steps there were implied in the act of switching the kit on.

I enjoy playing with 'toys' as much as the next geek, but not when I'm on a deadline: the computer is then a sophisticated tool for presenting the product - even if it's only hundreds of words.

That's the reason for my disappointment with this piece of kit, which (nearly) does what it says on the box.

[Keef]

If you read the instructions, it uses dhcp unless there is no dhcp server available. in which case it defaults to 192.168.0.10. It has to have an IP address, after all.
And it got one. I just had to tell the router. I've done that many times over the years. The router is also a wireless access point, so for security I don't have DHCP running on it.


If you're running Win 7 install as admin and once installed run in compatability mode for Vista SP1.
It ran itself, as soon as I inserted the CDlet. Four times. No idea why four rather than one or two. The question of mode didn't arise. I authorised it to run (4 times). When things quietened down, I closed all the boxes on the screen and clicked the (one) new icon on the desktop. I then authorised that to run. It did. It found the device and displayed two green blobs and one red-on-white cross.


"Snag one: the USB scanner wasn't in its vocabulary. That was an "oh bother". I didn't connect any of the other potential "shared USB devices" pending further investigation."

You're under a false impression here - it doesn't have a "vocabulary", library or database - it simply presents the connected USB device to the PC on a virtual USB port.
In its "Launch MFP" programme, it presented two (green blobs) printers and a device with a red X against it. I clicked on each of the printers and stuff happened. I successfully printed the test page to each. I clicked on the red X (which had to be the scanner, since it was the only other device connected) and got an error. Several times. I unplugged the scanner, the red X went away. I reconnected the scanner, red X returned. In my way of speaking, that's its "vocabulary".

It is up to you then to provide it with the necessary drivers, just as if you had attached the device directly to your machine. Obviously, you must do this after selecting "connect" in the software and on each machine.
That I could have understood, and even handled. It didn't get that far with the scanner.


This one really makes me wonder what sort of operation you're running - SOHO or enterprise?
I wonder, too. This is my study, where there are three PCs connected to a router on a "Work" network. One is the main desktop, a reasonably modern PC running Windows 7. One is the laptop, a fairly modern IBM Thinkpad running Windows 7 and used when out-and-about, and on a docking station when at home. The third is my "previous" desktop machine, running Linux.
There's a router "VPN in" connection for the laptop when I'm out and about, and RealVNC on the main desktop for the laptop to connect to it for various purposes.

Thus, I can print stuff off (in the study) from the laptop wherever I am, as long as I can find a WiFi or 3G connection. I can access the "data" drives on any machine from any of the others - including via the VPN. There's also a large hard drive up in the attic connected by USB cable, where backups etc go.

Whether you call that SOHO or enterprise I dunno. I call it "My Study".


Firstly, you can set the "MFP and Storage Server" utility to run at start up if you really think that a second or two for it to run is that bad.
Yes, lots of software on this machine runs at startup. Too much. I try to limit the stuff that does, because it slows the thing down.


Connecting takes a similar time, as does disconnecting. As for shutting the software down afterwards.....are your machines really so lame that this little exe can't be left running?
They are as lame as I am. There was this box on the screen saying stuff, that wouldn't go away unless I clicked "Disconnect". The box then disappeared. If I wanted to print again, I had to reopen the box and click "Connect".

As things are now, from any of the three machines and in any software package, I just click "Print" and printing happens. Unless I say otherwise, it's to the Laser (B&W) printer. I can with an extra click or so tell it to print to the colour printer instead. That's how I think things should be.


I must tell you that I'm most disappointed with your posts. I offered the OP a realistic and cost-effective solution for his requirement for a bi-directional print server. Despite a personal offer of assistance if required, you have sought to rubbish the product without taking the time to read and digest my post or the manufacturer's instructions.
I think you are being over-sensitive. I followed the manufacturer's instructions, and confirmed that the product does what it says in those instructions.

My disappointment was that I hadn't realised that the device is not "transparent" to the user, as is the "all printers connect to the desktop" method. I can see where it would be useful, but it's not for me.

[itwasme]

Keef, Jim,

indeed, maybe a little oversensitive.

I was just a bit peed off that anyone reading your posts would come to the conclusion that the unit is a pice of crap, when in fact it does all that the manufacturer says and does it well and at a very good price. It may not suit your needs in "mission control" (your study!), but that is not the point.

Best wishes,

IWM

[Saab Dastard]

Itwasme,

You appear to have such in-depth knowledge of the product and be such an advocate and staunch defender of it that one could not unreasonably come to the conclusion that you have some interest in the company.

Have you?

SD

[itwasme]

SD

try reading post #35, last line.

[Bushfiva]

Meanwhile, back at post #3 and with a value-added link to www.LvlLord.de - Tipps, Tricks & Utilities - Downloads (http://www.lvllord.de/?url=downloads&lang=en)

[Saab Dastard]

Itwasme,

Sorry, I missed that. :O

I can only plead the last line of a long post!

SD

[Mornington Crescent]

mcdhu

I am not sure whether you actually solved the problem.

Following your enquiry I worked up an interest because I needed to print from 3 computers to a USB printer.

Father Christmas brought me a Belkin F5L009uk and it solved all my printing problems. It also allows me to plug in other USB peripherals such as storage devices all of which are visible from all the computers. (1 XP 1 Vista 1 Win7)

Incidentally, with regard to the printer - Each computer connects automatically to the printer when printing then disconnects to allow any other computer to use it - automatically when print is selected.

Thanks Santa. and No I do not have any connection with Belkin.

MC

[jimtherev]

Ahhh. If only Santa had called 40 posts ago! :ugh:

[Keef]

Happens sometimes, Jim.

Happy Christmas!

[jimtherev]

Likewise, Keef!
Off up t'road now to put the heat on for the 'midnight'

[mcdhu]

Mornington,

Glad to hear it's all going well.

I'm sure it is the answer, but still lies in the box until I pluck up sufficient courage to try again.

Strangely enough though, there has been no repitition of the problem since I uninstalled the canon on each devive and reinstalled with updated drivers. On the basis of 'if it ain't broke.......' maybe I'll leave it!!

Merry Christmas and happy printing!

mcdhu