Instructing/Airlines

[Merh]

Hi Guys,

Three quick questions.

- Out of curiosity, are there many Instructors with ME training approval (not specifically talking about the current climate), progressing straight from Instructing to the airlines? Or do airlines require/prefer a certain amount of M/E charter experience?
- Generally speaking, is GA charter the quickest means of accruing hours?
- Is an Instructor Rating required for airline check and training roles?


These aren't necessary questions relevant to my situation, but have come up a few times amongst some of the guys, leading to discussion. If I don't ask, I'll never know :ok:

Cheers

[Tee Emm]

Is an Instructor Rating required for airline check and training roles?



No. Because the only qualification required to become an airline check pilot is seniority within the system and demonstrated ability to climb the greasy pole to management. No flying skills requirement needed, either. :ok:

[Merh]

Ah, cheers...

One down, two to go.

[Compylot]

Hi Merh

Thanks for your question.

I know a lot of up and coming pilots wonder the very same thing!

In my experience, instructing is looked upon HIGHLY favourably within the airline environment.

Instructors that have made their way up through the ranks from singles and then META (Multi Engine Training Approval) are far less likely to fail than their GA counterparts, mainly due to the fact that most, if not all instructors are disciplined and profesional in their conduct as a direct result of their training environment.

Airlines mainly employ good instructors with an eye on the future knowing that they will one day make excellent line pilots. (and check and training Captains!)

GA is certainly not the best and quickest way to an airline job! Your professional attitude is though!

Good luck in your future endevours.

[VH-VIN]

In NZ you must be a multi instructor for check and training in an airline, in Aust you dont have to be. I bit strange but so are most of the CASA ways of doing things!!!!

[The Green Goblin]

I bit strange

Finally a Kiwi who admits it :}

[Zoomy]

The G G, Thats gold.

[Aussie]

hehe, nice pic up GG.

As for Aus and CASA, i heard they wanted to implement that same rule in aus, but like most things, its just talk.

[Mach E Avelli]

Nothing at all unusual about it. The U.K., Canada, USA and two Middle East countries that I operated in all accepted me as a checkie with no M/E instructor rating. They all required other hoops to be jumped through and all except CASA required an annual check with one of their friendly FOIs. CASA ran an initial check for each approval but never followed up with annual checks because they ended up with insufficient qualified pilots to administer checks. So now they have a special division of ex-G.A. M/E instructor types who will be passing judgement on airline jocks. Could get interesting.

[Aerohooligan]

I bit strange but so are most of the CASA ways of doing things!!!!

Yeah, sure...at least in this country we actually have flight and duty time limits for pilots... :E

[waren9]

Yeah, sure...at least in this country we actually have flight and duty time limits for pilots...


Really?:hmm:

Whats the point when CASA hands out CAO48 exemptions like lollies?:yuk:

And, as for GA ME instructors checking airline pilots. Hahahahaha. If true, is just another example of how f*cked the regulatory system in Aus really is. How many of those GA ME instructors are failed airline applicants anyway? As the old saying goes....if at first you dont succeed, teach.

[The Green Goblin]

Generally the older instructor types are guys that started late in their career and never had the chance. You can make some good money once you are a Grade 1 in GA and it can be a rewarding career. I know a lot of ex teachers who are now instructors!

Usually it's the little smart arse gen y'er using the 'washed up and bitter cause he/she never made it' remark after being told to work harder at something they are not doing to well on regardless of how good they think they really are!

Everyone has a place - without instructors there would be no new airline pilots.

[Capt Mo]

Dont bother instructing if its just to get hours as quickley as you can for an airline job - go do charter. Even if you're there for the same reason, you'd be at least getting the job done. - instructing on the other hand, if you don't take the job seriously, some poor student wastes thousands of dollars getting nowhere and ends up flying elsewhere when they realise you have no interest in them. I've seen it too many times.

I can see why young instructors cop it a bit - a few have the attitude that the student theyre flying with is just another hour in the logbook before they get another job. Others have a passion and an enthusiasm for what they do and that is evident in their instructing ability - the latter may or may not intend on instructing for the rest of their careers, but while they are doing it, they give it everything they have got, and can produce good quality in their students.

At the same time though, if GA really doesn't interest you, leave charter alone and try for a cadetship. It leaves GA jobs for those interested in the journey and not just the shiny metal destination. If you can't get into a cadetship, make the most of any flying you do. While we all have a bitch and moan on PPrune about Ts and Cs from time to time, the flying you will do in GA can be exciting, challenging and rewarding. Its what you make of it really.

Thats my two cents

Mo :ok:

[linedriva]

Capt Mo, excellent post and worth far more than 2 cents:ok:

[777WakeTurbz]

Quote: Cynical Pilot

Some of us have no intention of joining an airline believe it or not

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaht? Whats the point of flying then?

Some people dont like amounts of automation and tedium that can be associated with operating withing an Airline environment WannabeQF. I know of several people who have gotten into either regional and even international airlines then resigned after a period and moved back to GA because the flying was more "hands on" or had more variety.

I have heard on many, many occasions from a lot of different people in a lot of different airlines, that GA Flying is the best Flying you will ever do, so enjoy it while you are there. (if of course your aspiration is airlines).

[caneworm]

Dear Merh,
Tee Emm's post couldn't be further from the truth and smacks of bitterness.
1. C & T positions are not subject to seniority, never have been.
2. Those asked are usually the folk who quietly go about their business, have fairly good interpersonal skills and operate to a reasonably good standard, (say again, reasonably good standard), aces are the last people sought.
3. Those who burn/ache/long (and ask) for a C & T job are, as a general rule avoided for obvious reasons, no one wants egomaniacs or those with a compensation complex in the job. Having said that, a few wankers do slip through the net every now and then, usually as management work their way down the ladder. You would be surprised how many good people with something to offer turn the job down.
4. A GA instructor/ATO qualification, (or military QFI qual) will not guarantee one a gurnsey in the training dept, but obviously will make one's C & T training (and career) easier if chosen.
Hope this helps.

[Mach E Avelli]

Well said, Caneworm. Having seen what happens when the occasional bad apple checkie goes on a power trip, once in a position to call the shots I always made a point of NOT selecting the "pick me, pick me" types for C & T positions. The quiet achievers are usually the ones you want.