Cpl Agk Exam

[Delta Oscar Charlie]

Hey folks,

Doing AGK soon and wondered if anyone had any recent insight? Bought the Bob Tait cyber exams and only found them ok, very repetitive. Have studied the ATC book also and find it lacking a bit too for possible scenarios.

Any tips would be great.

Thanks in advance

DOC

[Delta Oscar Charlie]

Heres one that can not be found in my book

Q. If auto pilot trim condition changes during flight due to fuel burn off, with auto pilot on..

1 AP may automatically disengage.
2 warning light will alert the pilot to the need to re trim
3 AP will always automatically re trim
4 AP servos may overheat

Surely the answer depends on the AP system? Anyhow I am going for Ans 1. Anyone else shed some light on it? Confirm my answer or tell me otherwise!

[SM227]

I have only used a century III autopilot and it doesnt have any warning lights, it didnt overheat, it didnt automaticly disengage, but it did 'hold' altitude. My bet would be 3 :ok:

[Delta Oscar Charlie]

Ya thats what I said too but I was wrong in the trial exam.. I'm fairly confident you could rule out 4 straight away .
It really does depend on the system I'm sure but thats a lucky dip question after that

[40Deg STH]

DOC

Seems like the exams have not changed in the nearly 30 years since I did my CPL. Its really a joke isnt it!! and expensive and annoying. I agree with your first choice.
My bet is, the people at CASA who write these exams have never flown aircraft with such fuel burns to really effect the trim significantly. Imagine if A,B or C happened on a Boeing........phew.
I'm sorry I cant help you, although I can sympathise with you. I would have hoped CASA would have managed to find the people who actually know what their talking about to write the exams, not someone who is just trying to avoid life by working for the government, and thinks their the only one who knows what aviation is about. Ont he other hand, if their anything like some FOI's I have met, perhaps best they are not in the sky!!!!
All the best for the exams, just play the game, we have all had to suffer the foolishness of those "Exam writers"( for the want of a better name), sometimes just takes a few attempts to actually learn what the fool writting the exams wants.
Enjoy the beers after the exam and forget any ****e they think they taught you, its useless and will never, ever be used, except for Met.

Good luck

[Delta Oscar Charlie]

Heres another one, again I'm not saying I'm 100% right and would love confirmation either way

Q. If a centre zero ammeter indicates an unusually high charge rate during a flight the cause could be?

1: Overloaded electrical system
2: normal indication if all electrical loads are on
3: Faulty battery
4: Alternator has failed

Initially I would go with 4 as the voltage meter is probably the cause and it is normally part of the alternator? I was wrong with that one and the only viable one left is the battery is faulty.

Is my reasoning wrong? Would anyone else have gone with the alternator?

[Pro777]

If the alternator fails the ammeter will show a negative charge (as the battery will be discharging) - so that rules out option 4.
Can't be option 2 as a normal indication is a slight positive charge and the question stipulates an unusually high charge.
An overloaded system will also discharge the battery.
So the correct answer is 3: A faulty battery. ;)

[Delta Oscar Charlie]

Is the voltage regulator not part of the alternator on most systems? I suppose if the answer was maybe a faulty alternator system then that would be more accurate..

I think its all in the wording and how you interpret it, after seeing your post it makes me think that I see some of there questions a little differently and that can be a problem. Over analysis on my behalf. RTFQ ha ha

Thanks again. any feedback on the AP question?:ok:

[777WakeTurbz]

First Q I wouldnt imagine it would be answer 3, they will generally retrim the aircraft if it has electric trim linked to the a/p but it is the "Always" bit that will normally discount an answer though. The old Century a/p werent connected electrically to the trim but only had a servo adjustment I believe? My experience with them in most cases was if they werent happy they would just spear off towards the ground or try and make orbit and you would have to disconnect manually and quickly because they were the biggest POS a/p ever built. :ugh:
I think the answer could be 1, as if it gets overloaded it may pop its circuit breaker, which has happened to me quite a bit in the century a/ps but not necessarily due to being out of trim.

Your second Q would be answer 2, the Q states if you have ALL electrical equipment switched on (radios/tx/wx radar/lights/anti ice etc) so they will be draining the battery quickly and the alternators will be charging it at a higher rate.

Hope all the contradictory answers dont confuse you... :confused:

[Pro777]

Re the autopilot, I'd be guessing option 2 - though yeah it's a crap question.

Q. If auto pilot trim condition changes during flight due to fuel burn off, with auto pilot on..
1 - AP may automatically disengage. (Shouldn't do this for minor balance issue, though stranger things have probably happened).
2 - warning light will alert the pilot to the need to re trim (Based on the systems I've used, yes)
3 - AP will always automatically re trim (Depends on the system - but I think 'always' is the operative word here... it can't always if the trim is at it's limit.)
4 - AP servos may overheat (Huh... No...)

Good luck with the exam! If you're yet to do Air law, Human factors, Aerodynamics, or Performance, make sure you grab a copy of Tmpffish's great notes. They're in his blog on the downwind.com.au site.

[SM227]

The unusally high charge rate would be from a faulty battery that is not holding its charge, so answer 3. If there was however a high eletrical load on the system there would also be a higher indication on the ammeter, so I think that it too is a plauseable answer. just one of those stupid ones you need to remember the answer to for the real exam I think :confused:

[Pro777]

A large electrical load on the bus will show a negative charge as the alternator can't provide enough power for the system, thus it's relying on power from the battery.

[777WakeTurbz]

A large electrical load on the bus will show a negative charge as the alternator can't provide enough power for the system, thus it's relying on power from the battery

Only if the alternator cant keep up or has failed.

[djpil]

Since I don't usually have all the electrical loads on, I'd go for #2. i.e. it is normal but unusually high.
(I guess if I plugged my car fridge and electric blanket into the cigar lighter I could overload it and that would be unusual.)
But I guess they are looking for #3.
Its been a long time since I've done one of these exams but even back then I would've agreed with those who say that the system encourages people to learn what answers they are looking for rather than to encourage people to really understand the subject.
PS - are you allowed to google during the exam?

[Homesick-Angel]

Keep going with bob tait.

AGK was easily my worst subject.I never fiddled with cars or any of that stuff and didnt even have much interest in engines/electrics etc(do now), but i passed ok using only BT.

There are some left field questions in the tests, but get right on top of all the stuff in BT and you'll nail it
Good luck
:ok:

[Pro777]

I just pulled out the old BT book to make sure I'm not going nuts. :eek: :ok:

Remember that a centre zero ammeter is located between the bus bar and battery, so it is only measuring the flow to/from the battery. The more electrical items you have switched on, the less power that can be used to charge the battery.

Thus an unusually high charge rate definitely can't be a 'normal indication if all electrical loads are on', as the battery would be getting less charge, if any. If the load of the electrical items exceeds the capacity of the the alternator, the battery will make up the shortfall (discharge) with the ammeter indicating a negative charge.

Hopefully the following circuit clarifies it:

[alternator]
|
[busbar (Your electrical items draw power from this)]
|
[centre zero ammeter]
|
[battery]

...though maybe your aircraft is more creatively wired :}

[djpil]

yes Pro777, that is the wiring diagram shown in Chapt 6 of the FAA's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/) but the wiring diagram in the Parts Manual for my aeroplane shows the ammeter between the alternator and the bus bar.
I agree - best advice is to go with Bob's stuff.

[Jay Bo]

One thing that Bob Tait doesn't go into much detail was fire systems etc compared to advanced theory centre books. I got two questions in the exam on this subject and I hadn't a clue what they were on about. Only when I got home and checked the atc book which I did not use to study preferring bob tait did I find the answers to the questions

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Jay Bo,
thats a good point you make. I've found ATC seem to follow the syllabus much better then Tait with questions I can remember from exams often not in Tait but in ATC as you say. Probably is a smart idea to double up for an exam and see how you go- thereby covering all bases and not having any doubts..

to the person who asked if you can use google during the exam.. the answers yes, but it costs $151 payable by cash to ASL.

Nkand

[boltz]

yes Pro777, that is the wiring diagram shown in Chapt 6 of the FAA's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/) but the wiring diagram in the Parts Manual for my aeroplane shows the ammeter between the alternator and the bus bar.
I agree - best advice is to go with Bob's stuff.

If the ammeter is located between the alternator and bus bar, it will be a left-zero ammeter.
This might help.

The voltage regulator controls the field current applied to the spinning rotor inside the alternator. When there is no current applied to the field, there is no voltage produced from the alternator. When voltage drops below 13.5 volts, the regulator will apply current to the field and the alternator will start charging. When the voltage exceeds 14.5 volts, the regulator will stop supplying voltage to the field and the alternator will stop charging. This is how voltage output from the alternator is regulated. Amperage or current is regulated by the state of charge of the battery. When the battery is weak, the electromotive force (voltage) is not strong enough to hold back the current from the alternator trying to recharge the battery. As the battery reaches a state of full charge, the electromotive force becomes strong enough to oppose the current flow from the alternator, the amperage output from the alternator will drop to close to zero, while the voltage will remain at 13.5 to 14.5. When more electrical power is used, the electromotive force will reduce and alternator amperage will increase.

Remember, a centre-zero ammeter is located between the battery and the bus bar and will show you the current flow to/from the battery. A left-zero ammeter is located between the alternator and bus bar and will show you the output of the alternator.

[djpil]

thanks boltz, I've failed,
however it is a centre-reading ammeter, same as other examples of the type of the same vintage

[boltz]

It must work like a left-zero ammeter because I dont know how you would get a discharge indication because of the diodes in the alternator would stop the current flowing in that direction. strange

[Delta Oscar Charlie]

Thanks to all for there feedback , glad to say I passed the exam.:ok:

[Biggles66]

Spoke to Bob Tait - the correct answer for the autopilot question is: the autopilot may automatically disengage.