Is the aviation industry going to die out in the UK?

[punk666]

Hi Guys,

Like it said on the tin,
"Is the aviation industry going to die out in the UK?" The reason I ask this is that the likes of Ofcom want to charge you/your airfields for certain VHF frequencies and the use of ILS,VOR, DME, which I think is a joke as aviation costs alot as it is already with out someone trying to rip you off any more.

Ive been told that the government want to put a £80 increase on green house tax on departure flights!! Is it me but are we the only country that has green house tax on our flights?

Nats have also mentioned that they will get rid of 28 VOR's such as
Barkway, Benbecula, Biggin Hill, Bovingdon,
Brecon, Brookman’s Park, Cranfield, Daventry,
Dean Cross, Detling, Dover, Gamston,
Glasgow, Goodwood, Inverness, Jersey,
Lambourn, London, Lydd, Macrahanish,
Manchester, Mayfield, Midhurst, Ockham,
Perth, Southampton, Trent and Turnberry.

And we will use GPS instead once its up and running, which I think is a bad idea personally what do you think?
We have the CAA that charges rediculous amount of money for things that sometimes cant be justified as well.

I'm not complaining at all in this thread, but its just a shame for someone like me who loves aviation seems to think its dying out in the UK, or possibly europe because of money hungry organisations (Dont get me wrong I know money doesnt grow on tree's and the funding has to come from somewhere).

GA is big over in the states and the majority of the services are free, including license issue after you have paid 450 bucks for the test! I would like to know how they run things over there because something is seriously going wrong here.

I would just like to thank Aopa for being on our side, and to keep things in balance.

[Edgar Jessop]

If you think taxes based on CO2 emissions are bad you just wait. Aviation doesn't pay tax on fuel, pretty much uniquely in the world, mainly because of the tankage that would result. But don't think it won't come.

However times change and aviation must change with them, like it or not. This is not, and never will be, a free and easy world where we can do things unregulated or unlicensed. The consequences of getting it wrong are just too severe, and the industry is too big to ignore and let it go its own way.

Aviation will always have a place in the UK, its island status ensures that, though of course by virtue of extensive surface transport and relatively short distances the need for puddle-jumpers will not be as high as other countries. And with the aviation that remains there will be activities to support it. So no, aviation will not die in the UK.

Saying that I will shed few tears when the era passes of plebs being able to pay a fiver for cattle-truck transport to a boozy weekend abroad.

[Joetom]

APD, just gone up, going up next Nov, it won't stop there for long.

A new Green Tax coming the airlines way, get ready.

A new Tax on fuel for the airlines, tankering fuel will be super Taxed.

Interesting times ahead !!!

[brakedwell]

One thing is for sure. There will be no green tax refunds when the world goes into it's next cooling cycle.

[punk666]

Thanks for the replies!!

Aviation will obviously be around but I think at a reduced rate.
There seems to be some trouble over this new EASA IR and IMC business which will also help reduce pilots in the UK, some have said.

I personally think this Global warming business is a crock of sh*t! Ok global warming is a fact but its been over exaggerated (I studied it in Geography). The world goes through cycles has done for billions of years, looks like some one wants to make a buck off it in the process.

Like the previous posters said, aviation fuel is not taxed yet but will be soon. I think this just adds to the problems we already got.

[vanHorck]

There was a (hefty) greenhouse gas tax on flights departing Holland, but this was revoked last summer as Schiphol was starting to loose a lot of customers to airports in Belgium and Germany.

It's only a matter of time though that such a tax becomes "de rigeur" Europe-wide....

[Graybeard]

Taxes have more to do with the ability to collect them than with fairness. Sales taxes have always been popular with governments, because the retailers are burdened with collecting them. The govt only has to collect from the retailers.

Advancements in electronics are providing governments with new ways to tax just about everything.

Don't believe in man-caused global warming? Ask the Aussies about their drought.

GB

[punk666]

Graybeard,

To answer your question, I think man has accelerated the global warming process alot!! But I do not believe at all we are the cause of it. The minute the world began the world slowly heated up just from natural causes, but now we have factories, cars, huge population of people.

[Joetom]

Graybeard, well said, fairness of Tax is often 2nd place to ease of collection, and plenty of examples of easy Tax in the UK.

Any easy Tax that can have Green mentioned in the text is a no brainer for cash.

[ab33t]

AVGAS has always been a problem , due to the so called smaller demand pool some aiports dont even have avgas can you imagine what will happen to GA if the spiral starts . Add tax , less flying , less demand, less production , prices go up and on it goes. Lets just hold thumbs that it does not happen

[Giddy]

It won't die in the UK. But I doubt airports will be as profitable as they were in the past.

[Higher Archie]

Some thoughts:

It's often said that international aviation operates tax-free on fuel, but there are local tax regimes. In the UK APD generates revenues of £2bn annually for the Exchequer. Before the Nov increases, this is greater than the industry's annual environmental cost, and admitted by a Government Minister, APD is a revenue raising cost. As a UK industry, overall, aviation is taxed at 52% of its economic value.

The industry does need to play it's part in reducing and controlling emissions. But with aviation's 2% contribution to CO2 there's other more significant emitters, such as energy generation and road transport. Trains are often held up as the 'green option' but where does the electricity come from? The Drax power station in the UK accounts for some 17 million tonnes of CO2 annually.

And another thing ... is any national Government going to impose restrictions on its citizens from travelling abroad? How can they say that you can't visit your family unless you go by sea (oh... shipping contributes to 15% of global CO2 emissions)

[punk666]

Archie,

I agree, the industry does need to play its part in Co2 reduction but only contributing to 2% of it, I think the government need to focus it on somewhere else.

Im suprised they haven't decided to fine people for farting in public because that is methane gas and it contributes to global warming haha (Reminds me of a funny episode of south park).

I just think its typical England really, lets tax the :mad: out of everything in any shape or form, then spend it on something rediculous, then claim expenses. For example paying the bill for a porn movie for their husband in the local hotel.

[INKJET]

He added, "It is most gratifying to see that the UAE example is being followed by many countries which come to realize how important the air transport industry is in diversifying sources of income."

Alsa not in Planet Gordon.............

[INKJET]

APD will reduce Co2 aircraft (and other emissions eg driving to the airport) but at what cost elsewhere in the economy?

AS a tax it is easy to collect but very crude, a passenger pays the same tax whether they fly on an ageing bmibaby/Jet2 classic or a cleaner lower fuel burn Ryanair/Easyjet aircraft when flying Malaga, it makes no difference whether the passenger starts from GLA or LGW, it should, why should people who live in the South of the UK further subsidise Scottish travel?

It should also be borne in mind that alternative fuels aren't an option just yet for aircraft, they can't run on wind, solar, coal, gas or atomic power!!

Why not a cash for classic's scrapage scheme? the industry pays enough in

I fear greatly for what is happening in the UK, the country is awash with pilots and this will be ruthlessly exploited by Ryanair (i don't blame them for this) they are more than willing to think the unthinkable to drive down costs, Capatins paid only by the hour and cadets who will end up in an e-bay type auction being asked to bid for how little they will accept for blocks of hours.

Some might say it will never happen? i am old enough to remember when an airline would pay for your IR, the bigger problem is that where Ryanair go other will follow (they have to!!) we now see Jet2 offering 70/30 contracts which means you'll probably ende up flying 6 or 7 months at 90 hours per month with 5 or 6 months off, but in that period you will fly what a current Jet2 pilot does in a year, have no leave during the Summer months and earn just £54k so uinless your already minted and like skiing (a lot!!) its crap and they won't be the last, bmi cast in stone 3 year pay deal is i'm informed about to becom a 5 year deal frozen at the 2nd year rate, still their lucky to have a job........mantra

Why would anyone pay £80k to work in this industry is beyond me:suspect:

[P.Pilcher]

The reason that Ryanair et al can get people to spend exhorbitant sums to gain licences, experience and type rating qualifications is that our profession is still conceived as glamorous by joe public and, up until recently it has been easy to borrow the huge sums that this training requires. Eventually, the poor employment conditions that some companies can get away with imposing on their pilot employees will cause the supply of appropriately qualified pilots to dry up and the industry will have to start shelling out for training once more, wages will increase as will employment conditions. Joe public's ticket prices will also rise to more realistic levels as well. I mean, my next door neighbours own a property in France and know how to play the game. They have flown to France time without number over the last year or two thanks to Mr. O'Leary. They usually take advantage of the £1 one way ticket outbound and as they have a French address they are returning for 1 euro! Brilliant fares out of which Mr. O'Leary must be loosing significantly - but is it paid for out of some pilot's training cost?

P.P.