Ministry of Defence officials paid £47 million in bonuses

[HectorusRex]

Ministry of Defence officials paid £47 million in bonuses

Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence have been paid £47 million in performance bonuses this year, it can be disclosed.
Ministry of Defence officials paid £47 million in bonuses - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/6546899/Ministry-of-Defence-officials-paid-47-million-in-bonuses.html)

By Rebecca Lefort and James Kirkup
Published: 10:00PM GMT 11 Nov 2009

A total of 232 British service personnel have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001
The figure, which covers just the first seven months of the current financial year, has been revealed as the Government faces charges of failing to provide British troops with adequate support and equipment on the front line in Afghanistan.
Additional bonus payments for the rest of year could take the total above the £53 million paid out to MoD officials in 2008/09.

There are 85,000 civil servants at the MoD, one for every two active troops. Around 50,000 of them will get a performance bonus this year.
The MoD has claimed that the bonuses would average less than £1,000, but some officials will get much bigger payments.
Last year, the department had senior 95 employees who were paid salaries of more than £100,000; and the average bonus for a senior civil servant in the department was £8,000.
An Army private can be paid as little as £16,681, with a £2,380 bonus for serving in Afghanistan.
The disclosures come as British troops are dying in Afghanistan at a rate not seen since the Falklands war, and polls show voters are turning against the mission.
A total of 232 British service personnel have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001. Commanders have said that some of those deaths could have been averted if there had been more helicopters available to British forces.
The MoD says that bonuses are paid to officials for exceptional performance, yet the department has faced repeated criticism over its mismanagement of major defence projects and its failure to deliver enough helicopters to Afghanistan.
The bonus payments have risen sharply even as MoD’s record has come in for growing criticism. In 2003/04, total bonus payments were £24.9 million.
The £47 million paid out so far this year would be pay for 47,000 sets of body armour, 26,111 SA80 A2 assault rifles or 156 Ridgeback armoured vehicles which help protect troops against roadside bombs.
Last night, as Gordon Brown continues to face intense pressure over his treatment of the Armed Forces. the bonus figures drew criticism of the Government.
The figures were revealed in the Commons following questions from Liam Fox, the Conservative shadow defence secretary, who said the bonus payments would anger service personnel.
"Many in the Armed Forces will be aghast that bonuses are being paid on the basis of outstanding performance," Dr Fox said. "This will only increase the view that the Armed Forces and the MoD administration are hugely out of balance."
Ministers awarded the Armed Forces a 2.8 per cent pay rise this year, meaning a private soldier is now paid between £16,681 and £25,887.
Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan receive a tax-free “operational allowance” worth £2,380 and a Longer Separation Allowance worth at least £1,194. The MoD says that means a private soldier deploying on his first operation is paid at least £20,255.
Earlier this year, The Daily Telegraph revealed that Britain has more military bureaucrats for every active serviceman than any of its allies.
Ministers have promised to cut the number of officials at the MoD head office by a quarter. The Conservatives say they will reduce MoD bureaucracy by a third.
Last month, an MoD review of defence procurement found that the department has overspent its equipment budget by £35 billion yet is still putting British troops on the frontline at risk by failing to provide the right kit
And earlier this month an independent inquiry found that years of incompentence and cost-cutting by MoD officials had contributed to the crash of an RAF Nimrod in Afghanistan in 2006, killing 14 British service personnel.
Earlier this week, Mr Brown was confronted by Jacqui Janes, whose son Jamie Janes died in Afghanistan last month. Mrs Janes told the Prime Minister that her son died because there was no helicopter available to take him to a field hospital. Mr Brown has promised a full investigation into the incident.
The widow of an RAF serviceman killed in Afghanistan last night criticised the Government over the equipment available to the troops. At the end of an inquest into the death of Senior Aircraftman Gary Thompson, 51, his widow Jacqui Thompson said British forces in Afghanistan are having to cope with “limited resources".
Reg Keys whose son, Lance Corporal Tom Keys, was once of six Royal Military Police killed in Iraq in June 2003, also criticised the MoD bonus awards.
He said: "They are trying to run the Armed Forces on a shoestring, but still pay their own employees huge bonuses."
Col Bob Stewart, the former commander of United Nations forces in Bosnia, said: “I am absolutely staggered. No civil servant should be getting any kind of a bonus when our country is broke and our troops are fighting for their lives.”
An MOD spokesman said: “These pay awards are met from within salary budget and have no impact on the operational or equipment budget. The awards were given to around 50,000 civil servants resulting in an average payment of less than £1,000.
“The vast majority of these awards were paid in August as part of previously agreed pay deals, so we are not expecting this year's total to increase significantly.”
Britain has 9,000 troops in Afghanistan, and Mr Brown has authorised the deployment of another 500.
President Barack Obama is also considering a military request for another 40,000 US troops. The request was made in September, and the president’s delay has caused frustration in the British government.
In the House of Commons yesterday, Mr Brown said that Mr Obama would make an announcement on troops “in the next few days.”
But the White House insisted that the decision is still "weeks and not days" away.

[Jabba_TG12]

Come on guys... you're not really surprised are you?

They definately got them in DSDA; this year and last year. :suspect:

And er... lets just say if those performances warranted bonuses.... I should have charged more on my day rate.:} :rolleyes:

[bit-twiddler]

What the Telegraph so conveniently 'forgets' is that the Civil Service pay is now split into two parts.

1. A pay increase, which is pensionable
2. A non-consolidated lump sum payment AKA a 'bonus'

Try reading the comments on the Guardian article:
Families of war dead criticise bonus payments for MoD staff | Politics | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/12/defence-civil-servants-bonuses-payouts)

Pumpkinjuice

12 Nov 2009, 5:00AM

I'm a civil servant.

This is how civil service "bonuses" work:

Until a few years ago, any pay rise was dependent on performance. The better you did, the higher your pay would rise.

Then some bright civil servant realised that loads of money could be saved by turning the performance related payrises into non consolidated bonuses, meaning that they would not count towards pensions, meaning that the tax payer has less of a pension burden over many years to come.

So now, unless you are not up to scratch (in which case you get no payrise) we all get the same basic payrise, which for most civil servants increases their salary by just a three figure sum each year.

The bonuses are just a replacement for performance related payrises and they meant to motivate staff.

Despite some people's opinion a great many of us do take pride in doing our jobs well. But you can imagine how motivated we would feel when we've busted a gut to acheive and there was no recogition of this, simply the same basic pay rise as the plodder sitting next to you, who does his job to the letter but no more.

It's not the same culture as in banks etc where I believe that large performance related salary rises are the norm for achievers as well as bonuses.

[tucumseh]

Non Story.

This bonus scheme was a savings measure designed to (a) reduce overall pay bill and (b) reduce pension commitments as the bonus is not consolidated.

Most CS hate it.

[vecvechookattack]

Does the report mention the bonuses paid to servicemen? What about the extras that we get?

[Chris Kebab]

Agree.

Total non story really, civil servants, easy target. I feel really sorry for some of them actually, just like the military most are good guys trying to do a good job, but, again just like the military, there are some who ought really be given their marching orders. The civils I have been working with recently dislike the bonus scheme intensely.

Bigger question is why the MOD has people dealing with mega million pound projects, with associated responsibilities, who are still being paid peanuts compared to their industry (and sometimes military) contempories.

Comparing terms of employment/service of military and MOD civil servants is utterly ridiculous. You don't hear the police or fire brigade constantly bleating about home office CS terms & conditions.

As I said, we (well some) mil folks like to attack them because they are such an easy target.

[XV208 SNOOPY]

As stated.
Driven by HM Treasury under a certain G Brown as a cost saving measure. Majority of civil servants hate it, because as stated, its non-consolodated, and replaced the old pay rises based on how well you/your department did. So as others have stated, it reduced the overall civil service pay bill, for it's non-consolodated and non-pensionable, but it has made good tabloid fodder and yet again set the civil service up as a popular political target. So pay will be cut again, civil servants will be more hacked off, so the service they provide to where it matters will be hit.

:ugh::ugh:

[The Oberon]

Based on my own experience, I can only endorse most of what has been said above. I was a technical grade D M.O.D. Civil Servant for 7 years. My annual report was compiled by senior RAF officers and each year I received an enhanced bonus amounting to a non consolidated, but taxed £1200 gross. That still gave me less than £25000 pa. Two years ago I accepted an industry job doing exactly the same thing and my pay increased by over 60%. I don't know about the upper echelons but there are a lot of good guys at the coal face who rely on their bonus to boost a meagre wage. A lot would like to move on but domestic and geographic commitments prevent it.

[Raven30]

What about the extras that we get?The X factor, home to duty(or whatever they call it these days, RPOD I think,) medical care, dental care, preferential accommodation rates, etc.

The Oberon sums it up nicely. Equivalent CS pay scales are lower than their military counterparts. Many CS posts are taken by retired military personnel who have a fairly balanced view of how the system works, but as usual, there is always a big stick somewhere who seeks to stir up the hornets.

I objected to the bonus scheme when I was in the CS, it was divisive and often unfair in the way it was awarded.

[teeteringhead]

When I heard this news driving to work this morning, one of my first thoughts was: I hope pprune is sensible about it - and I'm pleased to see that they have been generally.

The Oberon has it entirely right, and he was fortunate enough to get an "enhanced" (ie - much better than most) bonus.

I've got a number of MoD CS working for me at the moment, and the rates of pay and bonuses are even worse if you consider the "troops" rather than the "officers".

Let's take Registry Staff as an example - very often CS and very rarely retired military - so no other income.

Registry Clerk (Grade E2) = SAC/Cpl? £14,726 - £17,584 (London rates £15,757 - £18,815) Standard bonus (if awarded) £360 - taxed!

I/C Registry (Grade E1) = Cpl/Sgt? £16,812 - £17,584 (London rates £17,465 - £21,479) Standard bonus (if awarded) £390 - taxed!

I don't know offhand what the median ages for the grades are, but they ain't all spotty youths.

Anyone fancy trying to live in the Smoke on £16K.........:( And as Raven says, no HTD, medical, dental etc etc ....

[kokpit]

When I heard this news driving to work this morning, one of my first thoughts was: I hope PPRuNe is sensible about it - and I'm pleased to see that they have been generally.

My thoughts as well, I'm glad to say.

At SO2 level my pay was eclipsed by an SAC who was rebanded a couple of years ago, but I expect we typically earn less than a Cpl.

The bonus scheme was forced upon the workforce for the reasons already stated, is devisive, and in reality brings little benefit. I have yet to see more than a basic bonus, £535 before tax.

Like teeteringhead, I truly wonder at how the E grades afford to live, particularly the ones in London, on the meagre wage that they bring in.

[Melchett01]

Having heard the story on R4 this morning, I must admit to being a bit put out about it, but over a cup of coffee, had a re-think. Thinking how little the civilian elements of the MOD get paid, frankly they deserve any bit extra they get, especially for those having to deal with London prices.

What strikes me a few hours on from the story is that this is yet another example of poor comms by MOD. My very experienced bosses repeatedly bang on about the importance of comms, labouring the point that often it is not what is actually said, but what is perceived to have been said.

In this case, given the months and years of stories about kit shortages, troops getting paid less than traffic wardens etc, I think the big problem with MOD CS getting bonuses is not that they get them, but how this message has been put across. It was always going to be a gift to headline writers if not handled properly in a manner that is difficult to spin / mis-interpret (separate budgets for kit, salaries etc), and that is exactly what seems to have happened. Half the story has been allowed to be published, which is now whipping up a storm.

[WHBM]

I come from a world where we too get bonuses, and am therefore not too disenchanted with the basic concept.

However the bonuses are paid depending on how much revenue has been generated, on the quite reasonable principle that you only pay it out if you earned it/got it in, in the first place. Basc salary is fixed, but bonus depends on how much money you actually got in to the company. None of us here can see how this could apply to a Civil Service position.

Furthermore, if you tie it to wider performance, then fiascos like the Chinooks standing idle for most of their lifespan due to basic procurement blunders would mean no performance-related bonuses at all.

We feel it is also disingenuous to give a figure averaged across all staff, for there will be some significant higher officers, like those who presided over the whole Chinook thing, who will be receiving very substantial bonus amounts, apparently to "keep parity with the private sector" as I saw it justified today. Would this be the same private sector who can no longer afford final salary non-contributory pensions like the civil service get ? The same private sector who, with management of this calibre, would have them out on their ear in months ?

For the real troops, I understand there is an Afghan bonus. But what about those in the UK, or in the Navy who are currently uninvolved ? Do they get nothing but the Whitehall pen-pushers get rewarded ?

[teeteringhead]

Like teeteringhead, I truly wonder at how the E grades afford to live, particularly the ones in London, on the meagre wage that they bring in. .... indeed so kokpit.

One recalls once when working in Main Building, a new arrival commenting: "Why are so many of the Registry staff 40 year old bachelors still living with Mum in Essex?"

We pointed out that their pay scales gave 'em little choice.....

[minigundiplomat]

This ties in with the Tories plans to axe a third of CS posts at the MOD. What has been forgotten, is that having civilianised many important, but non-deployable posts (such as some MT drivers, suppliers etc), they have now become faceless CS and ripe for persecution.

The ire would be better directed at the officer corp of all 3 services, which has excess that could be easily trimmed, with the added value of reducing some of the superfluous layers of beaucracy they often create.

(Officer Corp stand fast - you do a great job, but you could be doing it in the field, instead of on work creation schemes in HQ's)

[airborne_artist]

One recalls once when working in Main Building, a new arrival commenting: "Why are so many of the Registry staff 40 year old bachelors still living with Mum in Essex?"

Hard to know if that was cause or effect, though. If they had the oomph to earn/want to earn £50,000 a year then would they have stayed in the Registry job for twenty years? I've met loads of people who started off low, and made it good, very good in many cases.

[mike_alpha_papa]

As has been covered by previous posters, performance related pay was forced upon the MoD CS by the Treasury, the hidden agenda being, as already stated, to cut the pension bill. It was universally hated and seen as devisive. Because of this it's been tinkered with every year since its inception. Currently, all get a standard bonus unless on restoring efficiency for whatever reason. The number of higher awards have been trimmed so you have to be doing something special to receive one. As you have to write your own evidence and your line manager adds their bit, sometimes it can hinge on how good both of you are with the written word!! That in itself is why it can be so unfair to some.

IMHO the majority of MoD CSs do a good job for little reward.

[vecvechookattack]

I wouldn't moan too much about performance related pay. Surely Performance related pay is a good thing? I have been on performance related pay for some years now and even as a serving Officer I can see the benefits it brings.

[A2QFI]

Another strange way that these were organised is that people on the same pay band/Spine point were put together in a "cluster" and then that group of about 6 people were assessed for the award of a bonus. One year I was in a cluster with 2 other Sim Operators, an RSO, a Health & Safety man and 2 Met officers. How those varying tasks could be meaningfully compared I am not sure. In the end it seemed to come down to how "Glowing" one's APR/report was.

[SirToppamHat]

As has been pointed out here, PR Pay is all very well if you have a reasonable means of assessing it.

Once I'd finished taking the mickey out of a C2 colleague at work today, we had a sensible discussion on what was wrong with the existing system. He is a budgets man and his view echos that of tucumseh and others; this was a system brought in when the CS was attempting to justify its position and demonstrate that an element of PR existed in its pay structure. In practice, the CS reporting system is almost entirely focussed on the 'bonus' and so everyone gets something. It's assessed based on annual reports often written by managers as worried about the demotivating effect of a low bonus as they are in the actual performance. However, as with all things MOD (and in the other ministries) there is not enough cash to go round so only a proportion of those eligible get the top amounts which, for the majority, is less than £500 PA (ie less than £10 or 3 cups of coffee a week).

I also think we need to stop comparing the CS with the uniformed elements as well; you are comparing apples with oranges - make no mistake, the x-factor and all the other little 'perks' that we get (health care etc) exist for one reason only, and that is to ensure the government has an Armed Forces that it can send to war in numbers and the best state possible. If they didn't have to provide it, it wouldn't be there.

STH

[Jimlad1]

Some very sensible and measured points here. Another way of looking at it - my old PA was paid £21k after 22 years in the MOD and pays for all her travel expenses. Today my Military SO2 colleague noted that as his travel is paid for, his salary is effectively £8k higher once you take into account the earning before tax needed to pay for season ticket, oyster and parking. This is added on top of his annual salary.

A deeply depressing day to be a CS - no support at all from anyone of any level apart from the Home Secretary, who managed to be briefed on the role of deployed CS and not the bonus system itself.

[Brewster Buffalo]

A deeply depressing day to be a CS Well this won't cheer them up. BBC's Newsnight is running is its own version of the dragon's den called the politics's pen in which members of public put forward ideas to a panel of four for their approval or not about such things as taxation, cutting costs etc and naturally CS pay came up.

Someone from a think tank proposed a CS pay freeze - nothing new there - but also suggested that the CS work for and get paid for only 4 days a week but carry on doing as much as they did before. Needless to say this met with unanimous approval of the panel

There was clearly a feeling from some of the panel that as much people as possible should suffer in this recession...

[Pen Pusher]

My pay is frozen.

They changed the spine points (I'm an E1 or AO in old money) and I'm right at the top of the pay band now so for this year no pay rise apart from £300 non consolidated lump sum spread out over 12 months and taxed.


ALL Civil Servants - end 2008 = 479,500 (to the nearest 100)

15.8% of CS work for the MoD
17.1% for Justice
17.7% for HM Customs and Revenue
21.8% for Dept Works & Pensions
27.6% for Other Depts (Quangos, Executive Agencies etc)

(Info from Civil Servant pdf Doc - Updated Apr 2009)

From the percentages above, makes you wonder why the MoD Civil Servants are always singled out?

Brian

[BEagle]

And why are there so many MoD civil servants?

Because it's cheaper to pay CS rates and employ a professional pen pusher to push a pen (OK, keyboard) than to use an expensive blue-suiter who'll only be in the job for 3 years at the most - and doesn't really want to be there in the first place. Of course a retired blue-suiter working as CS has a pension as well as his CS pay, so would probably be quite happy with his lot.

CS do at least provide continuity and are paid slave labour rates for some of their posts in the Box. Why their union hasn't put a union leader on TV to rebuff this 'bonus' nonsense - caused by Incapability Brown in the first place - I don't know. It should do - they don't deserve the uninformed nonsense being spouted in the meeja.

[kokpit]

Why their union hasn't put a union leader on TV to rebuff this 'bonus' nonsense - caused by Incapability Brown in the first place - I don't know. It should do - they don't deserve the uninformed nonsense being spouted in the meeja.

This just in, Prospect New Release:

12 November 2009

2009/01413

PROSPECT ATTACKS MEDIA WAR AGAINST DEFENCE CIVILIANS

Prospect, the union for 10,000 Ministry of Defence specialist civil servants today (Thursday) condemned the witch-hunt by the media over the payment of bonuses to its staff this year.

National secretary Steve Jary said: “First, these bonuses represent 2.8% of the pay bill which has been removed from basic pay progressively over the last eight years. This is in-line with 20 years of government policy to increase the use of performance pay in the civil service.

“Second, if civil servants were not doing some of the work in MOD, it would be done by military staff - at twice the cost to the taxpayer.

“Third, the purchase and supply of military equipment is undertaken by teams made up of civil servants and military officers. The majority of these teams are headed by military officers. If you believe they are under-performing, make sure you take the military hierarchy to task as well.

The union says newspapers have repeated ill informed comments about the ratio of civil servants to the armed forces. In fact MOD is more tightly staffed than it was in 1997 by 30 per cent. The number of civilians has dropped three times as fast as the number of service personnel.

“Civilian servants are deployed in Afghanistan in large numbers – intelligence analysis, operational research, logistics – which of these ‘pen pushers’ does not deserve our respect,” said Jary.

[Bob on the Ground]

Unfortunately the press release won't undo the damage that has been done by yesterday's media feeding frenzy.

Watching question time last night I could only sit and cringe at the misinformed rubbish being spouted by the panellists - none of them had done any research into the history of performance related pay within the MOD and James Cracknell's statement (allegedly from some of his friends in the MOD) that the bonus scheme was introduced to reward those who weren't slackers had me seething (You have probably guessed that I'm an MOD civil servant).

It also beggars belief that the man who is very likely to become Defence Secretary next year has attacked the very people who will be supporting him. A massive own goal methinks.:=

[blimp22]

It is a shame that Mr Woodward never took the opportunity to set the record straight and explain to the public that the whole of the CS operates in a similar way. As an Executive Officer with 17 years in (not MOD), post military service, I got a frivolous £650 (taxable) on top of my 0.5% payrise and that was only because I ticked the right box. Had I just done my job just to the required level and not gone the extra mile for the organisation, the performance "bonus" would have been less...... They're spoiling us!

[ORAC]

Ministry of Defence civil servants deserve bonuses, ministers say (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01522/1311-MATT-web_1522141a.gif)

Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence deserve millions of pounds of bonuses because they are facing the same risks as troops fighting in Afghanistan, ministers said yesterday.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01522/1311-MATT-web_1522141a.gif

[The Oberon]

"Many a true word spoken in jest".

Not exactly dangers but in my experience, receiving a bonus could cause embarrassment and bad feeling in a small department where everyone had pulled their weight and achieved a common goal. I know of locations where small departments agreed to pool any bonuses and divide them equally amongst all department members.

[Riskman]

Many of the top posts in MOD are held by the military so why aren't CDS, CDM etc getting air time to tell the public what they tell us internally? Some gold braid and medal ribbons would lend more weight to the argument than a spokesman from a very small union.

The bit that really grates with me is the accusation that we are uncaring and greedy, stoked by the false connection made by the media between bonuses and the equipment budget. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/icons/umph.gif

Quite simply I think the mix of military and civilian personnel (which includes a large number of ex-mil) promotes an ethos that precludes the very notion of being uncaring of our 'customers'.

Memo to CDS: Jock, show Liam Fox which way is up please.:=

[tommee_hawk]

During Telic my unit could not have delivered its warfighting ability were it not for the incredible hard work done by our MOD civil servants. Before, during and after Shock & Awe, these men and women worked up to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for 2 months without a break or reward - it's shameful that MOD civil servants (many paid about the same salary as a jnco) should now be vilified because of bonuses of £500 or less. I feel sorry for the mother of the Oxfordshire marine who was killed in Afghanistan, but once again someone has grabbed at the first quite inappropriate stick, never mind the wrong end. It's also a disgrace that the Tories and the media grabbed at this one's throat so quickly too - I suspect that Dr Liam Fox has just lost that nice Mr Cameron around 85 000 votes!

[vecvechookattack]

As a serving Officer I am on performance related pay. If I don't perform to the entire satisfaction of my 1RO I don't get a pay rise.

If I were a CS my name would be lobbed into a ballot and if I won the lottery I would get a bonus...regardless of how good I was at my job. I could be the most incompetent, inefficient, wasteful Civil servant in the land (He worked for me) ..... But I would still get a bonus. (He did).

You should get a bonus because you deserve it....not because its your turn

[bitsleftover66]

I have many opinions on the use of CS and in particular the skewed balance of uniform/CS within the MOD. Indeed it is also a concern raised within the Haddon Cave report. However, I work closely with, in fact for, two civil servants and have first hand experience of their skills and loyalty. They are poorly paid but without doubt as some of the previous posters have mentioned, there is a real comms problem here. I saw QT last night and thought the ministers defence was poor and completely missed the point of how CS bonuses barely bring the wages of the average CS up to a living wage.

[minigundiplomat]

As a serving Officer I am on performance related pay. If I don't perform to the entire satisfaction of my 1RO I don't get a pay rise.

Not strictly true.
Firstly, the AFPRB normally awards all of us an annual pay increase. Secondly, Pay 2000 is incremental up to a point and so unless you are on the top banding, you recieve a nominal pay rise.
Thirdly, you are not on performance related pay. This is simple, as there is no means of reducing your pay if you fail to perform, or raising it if you do.

You have confused pay and promotion. They are not the same, and promotion occurs even outside of the officer corps and military.

[vecvechookattack]

If you are on the FTC(A) pay spine (Spec aircrew) then you have to achieve a designated performance level in order to qualify for your annual pay rise. You will receive annual reports as part of your OJAR process where you will be expected to achieve a predetermined performance level. If your 1RO deems that you have not performed to that level then you don't get a pay rise. That is performance related pay.

[minigundiplomat]

And has anybody not progressed?

[Melchett01]

I think you have to get a D in order not to progress / get your annual incremement. I'm not aware of anyone having got a D, probably because the amount of hassle and ensuing recriminations, paperwork etc that would follow would make the prospect entirely unappealling in terms of effort expended on one individual. Also the ROs would need a pretty robust evidence trail for why someone deserved a D, and unless you are organised, it's unlikely that it would get past OC PMS.

So yes, in a way, we are all on performance related pay, but in a theoretical rather than practical sense.

[vecvechookattack]

That's very true.

I gave an E to one of my chaps once. He didn't get a pay rise and he wasn't working for me for very much longer.

[JFZ90]

If I were a CS my name would be lobbed into a ballot and if I won the lottery I would get a bonus...regardless of how good I was at my job. I could be the most incompetent, inefficient, wasteful Civil servant in the land (He worked for me) ..... But I would still get a bonus. (He did).

Are you saying you were a line manager for a CS that wasn't performing but you still gave them a bonus?

[teeteringhead]

And in the interests of accuracy, fairness to my CS and for the information of vecvec et al, if CS get a D or are on "restoring efficiency" then .... surprise surprise ....they don't get a bonus.

[vecvechookattack]

Are you saying you were a line manager for a CS that wasn't performing but you still gave them a bonus?
Today 16:49

No mate, that's not how it works. Teeteringhead is spot on......

This isn't a performance related Bonus....this is a "Did they pitch up for work" bonus.

[JFZ90]

No mate, that's not how it works. Teeteringhead is spot on......

This isn't a performance related Bonus....this is a "Did they pitch up for work" bonus.

I thought the bonus was related to satisfactory performance at work - i.e. meeting objectives set by presumably you as their line manager?

Does this mean that the "incompetent, inefficient, wasteful" CS working for you met the objectives you set them to get the bonus?

[seat pin]

How can the Civil Service justify a system that allows a line manger to award £100 'turning up' bonuses to a number of his team which they then pool and spend on a night out for the whole of the team? And the bill is paid on a Government credit card! It's just another way they take the P within the rules. I'm so annoyed at another way CS's have managed to feather their nests I'm going to start a thread that might surprise a lot of people.
Here's a taster, who in the service of this fair land of ours does not pay for accommodation, fuel or light, council tax or telephone line rental AND gets a cost of living allowance?

[c130jbloke]

OK I give up, who then ? I supect that you are just dying to give us the hot gen....

[vecvechookattack]

[QUOTE]I'm going to start a thread that might surprise a lot of people.
Here's a taster, who in the service of this fair land of ours does not pay for accommodation, fuel or light, council tax or telephone line rental AND gets a cost of living allowance?/QUOTE]

OMG....Please please don't start that thread....I wouldn't want the jouno's to realise what a complete P take SSSA is.....

[HectorusRex]

Ministry of Defence officials get £8,000 a month in Afghanistan
Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence are being paid more than £8,000 a month for working in Afghanistan, nearly five times as much some soldiers on the front line.
Ministry of Defence officials get £8,000 a month in Afghanistan - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/6575273/Ministry-of-Defence-officials-get-8000-a-month-in-Afghanistan.html)
Political Correspondent
Published: 10:00PM GMT 15 Nov 2009
A total of 232 British service personnel have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001 Photo: EPA
The figures emerged days after the MoD admitted paying millions of pounds in bonuses to civil servants.
The Government is under intense pressure over its support for the Armed Forces and Gordon Brown will attempt to respond this week by meeting Forces families and outlining a package of welfare measures for them.
After it was revealed last week that the MoD has paid £47 million in bonuses to civilian staff, ministers tried to argue that the bonuses were justified in part by the fact that some officials are posted to conflict zones.
The MoD said that the maximum monthly payment for a senior grade official is £8,250. For more junior officials, it is £6,750.
A senior civil servant based in Lashkar Gar in Helmand is paid £8,000 a month in addition to basic salary. A junior official is paid £5,000. The MoD last week said it has around 100 officials in Afghanistan.
Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, suggested that the performance bonuses were paid because officials are not paid overtime for the long hours they do in Afghanistan. “They work 17, 18 hours in Afghanistan. They don't get overtime for that – they get a bonus to compensate,” he said.
In fact, the MoD said that the Operational Working Allowance paid to officials is an overtime payment for working in conflict zones. To qualify for the highest payments, an official would have an average working week of more than 82 hours.
An MoD spokesman said: “MoD civilians are integral to operations. The department recognises the contribution these individuals make to operational success in terms of punishing working conditions and long hours with a system of taxable operational allowances.”
He added that officials sometimes leave British bases, putting them at risk. "Mortar and rocket attacks do not differentiate between military and civilian staff and risks are similar when travelling off base where mine-strike, IED and ambush are constant threats."
The MoD said it was inappropriate to compare payments to civil servants and troops on operations, because they have very different pay scales and employment conditions like holiday allowances.
Private soldiers paid between £16,681 and £25,887.
Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan for a six-month tour receive a tax-free “operational allowance” worth £2,380 and a Longer Separation Allowance worth at least £1,194. That means the lowest-paid private in Afghanistan is paid a monthly total of £1,687.
Mr Brown and his ministers have faced repeated accusations from retired commanders and opposition MPs that they do not do enough to support service personnel and their families.
Figures revealed on Sunday showed that since 2005, the MoD has paid compensation to 155 soldiers who suffered mental trauma as a result of their service. They were paid an average of £6,000.
The Prime Minister will this week host a Downing Street reception for services charities, where he will outline schemes to support Forces families.
They include support for the wives of servicemen – first revealed by the Daily Telegraph in September – and a shared equity housing scheme to help service families own part of their own homes. Similar schemes have been in place since 2006

[blimp22]

Seems to me that this has always been the case when it comes to conflict. Civilian crews on the same ship were earning treble and even quadruple wages when operating in the South Atlantic in 1982 whilst those of us that, joined the Armed Forces, signed the dotted line and accepted the wage and the job spec. got our standard salary with a small allowance.

[November4]

And now the story moves onto....

Anger as penpushers at MoD get same Afghan medal as troops risking their lives on front line (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231938/Anger-penpushers-MoD-given-Afghanistan-medal-troops-risking-lives.html)

Civil servants are being awarded the same campaign medals for serving in Afghanistan as soldiers risking their lives on the front line.

Critics said it was 'offensive' that Ministry of Defence bureaucrats manning desks at the British HQ, Camp Bastion, are handed the Operational Service Medal which is also given to squaddies facing Taliban bullets and bombs.

Penpushers receive the honour from ministers at formal presentation ceremonies, which were introduced after protests that the medals were being posted to them in plastic bags.

The news follows revelations in the Daily Mail that civilians working for the MoD have earned nearly £300million in bonuses while soldiers have been dying for lack of equipment.

Civil servants have seen 'good performance' payments double, including rewards for saving money, while on the battlefields of Helmand soldiers have accused the Government of putting lives at risk by scrimping on military kit including helicopters, radios and night goggles.

Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Willie Rennie said last night: 'It is quite offensive that civil servants should be regarded and rewarded the same as soldiers who are putting themselves in danger to fight the Taliban.

'We need a complete review of arrangements so that risk and courage is taken into account when medals are being awarded.

'I think it would be more appropriate to give frontline troops a different medal that reflected their bravery and sacrifice.'

The Operational Service Medal was introduced in 2000 to honour service in a series of British campaigns, replacing the General Service Medal.

They have been handed out for service in Iraq, Sierre Leone and the Congo.

The circular silver medal features the crowned effigy of Queen Elizabeth II on the front and the Union Flag surrounded by the inscription For Operational Service and the four points of the compass on the reverse.

The ribbon for the Afghanistan campaign consists of a broad central red stripe, flanked each side by a stripe of royal blue and one of light blue, to represent the three services, with an outer stripe of light brown, to represent the Afghan landscape.

Complex criteria govern the award of the medal, depending on length of service, the type of operation and its location.

To qualify for award of the medal with a clasp, personnel must have served in Afghanistan for either five, 21 or 30 days continuous service between various dates depending on the operation.

The MoD has asked staff to volunteer for service in Afghanistan. Welfare and administration officers, scientists and mechanics are among those who can be posted there.

One civil servant who recently returned from Afghanistan said: 'We are not on the front line facing the Taliban, but could be blown to pieces at any time. I shall wear my medal with pride inside and outside the office.'

At a presentation ceremony in July, Armed Forces minister Kevan Jones said: 'The welfare role these people do is vital in operations and I thought it important that they get public recognition.'

An MoD spokesman: 'Civil servants in Afghanistan provide essential support to troops on the front line.

'Staff serving in Afghanistan are expected to work extremely long hours in potentially dangerous environments away from their families. They are all deserving of the Operational Service Medal.'

Armed Forces face shortfall of 7,000 troops

Britain’s Armed Forces fighting Afghan insurgents are facing an 'alarming' shortfall of nearly 7,000 specialist troops.

Vital roles including surgeons, helicopter pilots, divers and intelligence officers are operating at two-thirds strength or less, according to figures.

A 38 per cent shortfall in bomb disposal experts is said by the Army to be a 'critical concern'.

The Army also has fewer than half the nurses it needs.

Of 68,000 specialist staff across the Army, Royal Navy and RAF, there are 6,700 vacancies.

Many troops can earn better pay in the private sector.

Liberal Democrat spokesman Nick Harvey said the figures were 'alarming', but Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said Afghan forces were not left short.

[Stuff]

What a total non-story.

I'm going to Kandahar shortly on a Cat 1 IPDT (Cat B IRT in old money) and never expect to leave the wire for the job I do. At the end of my 6 months I'll get the OSM Afghanistan and wear it with pride. Why should the CS next to me not do the same?

[blimp22]

As stuff infers, a bit of a non story in that this has always been the case.

A comms chap who never left the bunker on a six week tour in NI got the same medal as those of us flying around the place. By the same token we in our (relative) safety at 50ft/100kts got the same medal as the troops taking bullets on the ground in South Armagh.

In 1982 the guys n gals who operated in the sunshine of Ascension, got the same medal as those sailing the South Atlantic who got the same medal as those of us ashore in pretty hazardous flying conditions who got the same medal as the troops hand to hand fighting the enemy on Mount Longdon. (We did get a rosette for that though)

Are we not all part of the same team?

[Jimlad1]

"Are we not all part of the same team?"

Not in the eyes of the media - its our brave boys on the front line versus the evil incompetent malingering useless overpaid and general paedophile loving civil service scum.

Said as a very hacked off CS fed up of the Medias efforts to create divisions where non existed.