PB Air..... Bust?

[Tolsti]

PBair - the great little airline "Saen Sabai" Service - Thailand domestic flight, Special fare, Airfare, Airline tickets, Package vacation, International flight (http://www.pbair.com/)

All flights suspended... have they gone under?

[jamestaylor]

sad but again rich people who hire total id___ to run their airline who are all posers. Give me a break - first EMB then Sabb planes come on - they could give away the 340's and no one would buy - why.? No pilots, crew, planes out of prod, no parts, engines, props, 30 seats no revenue model and how can you compete,:sad: should I go on.

Then these rich guys hire relics way past their prime to advise what??? How to run an airline into the ground..........

Man how many times will this happen before someone smartens up..............

[TIMA9X]

I don't quiet understand Jamestaylor's post. No talk of SAAB 340's!

PB wet leased BKP (Bangkok Air) ATR 72 500's after finally dropping the two ERJ 145's months ago. All seemed to be going fine until the political turmoil here in Thailand destroyed tourism. From a very reliable source close to 9Q

It's not all over yet. Still struggling I guess. But the chance of closing down is very high. It's just too bad that PB Air management can't manage anything. PB Air is still trying to find money to pay Bangkok Airways so that it can continue flights service using those ATRs.As I use/ed 9Q a lot NNT to BKK I feel stranded as I live in the mountains of Northern Thailand and need quick access to the capital, now my options are; 1. a 10 hour bus ride on a good day to BKK (white knuckling all the way) 2. a four hour drive (6 hour bus ride) to CNX (Chiang Mai) then a choice of LCA's or TG to BKK. PB serviced many thin routes dropped by TG years ago.

My thoughts go out to the 9Q cabin and ground crews, they did a fantastic job keeping PB going for as long as it did. Bangkok Air also did a sterling job but they too have suffered heavy losses which is unusual for them as they are a well managed airline. In the end I guess they needed to get paid too. If 9Q does go under I hope BKP would see the value in taking over 9Q's routes as I am sure they would make it work.

[ozthai]

I heard that Bangkok Air are being very strict about wet lease complience with no latitude given.

Local rumour is that Bangkok Air want PB to go bust so they can take over the routes.

( This is a rumours and news forum after all ).

PB is a great little airline crewed by lovely people.

Hope all ends well.

[ZFT]

PB Air is still trying to find money to pay Bangkok Airways so that it can continue flights service using those ATRs.

Therein lies the problem. BKP are operating an airline business, not a charity.

[FSJ]

PB Air started operations a number of years ago operating Do328 Aircraft. After sometime, they returned the 328s, and leased Fk70 Aircraft. This went on for a while, until the Fk70s were returned and replaced by the Barbie jets. When they were deemed to be unprofitable (running costs), they were returned, and PB struck a deal to wet lease ATR 72s from Bangkok Airways. They were crewed by pilots of Bangkok Air, and FAs of PB Air. Around the same time, the CEO did a mid-night departure, taking more than the contents of his desk with him!
PB then sought out new aircraft, mainly concentrating on the Saab 340 (2 other airlines have currently leased Saabs in Thailand).
However, a few rumours circulating recently (before 1st Nov) suggest that the DCA were not happy for PB to continue operating with another carriers aircraft; and the second rumour was that Bangkok Airways had not been paid, and therefore took the aircraft back.
During this time PB Air had arranged for new aircraft (Saab 340) to be leased from Saab leasing. So far the aircraft have not arrived, and I can only guess that it is due to financial difficulties.
A large majority of the domestic routes in Thailand are controlled to an extent by Thai Airways. PB air previously negotiated these routes. Although at one point Nok Air was keen on operating the Sakhon/Nakhon Phanom routes, they were not allowed. (For another carrier to take up these routes permission must normally be sought from the DCA and Minister of Transport).
I would be surprised now as we arrive into the high season if politicians will allow these routes to go unserviced. So unless PB air start operations again soon, it would not surprise me to see NOK Air or other carriers operating into Isaan Airports in the near future.

For more info, see local websites:
Pbair Website - Thailand Forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pbair-Website-t311900.html&st=25)
Pb Air Gone Bust ? All Flights Cancelled - Thailand Forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pb-Air-Bust-Flights-Cancelled-t313560.html)

[LYMANGOOD]

they could give away the 340's and no one would buy - why.? No pilots, crew, planes out of prod, no parts, engines, props, 30 seats no revenue model and how can you compete"

Come on jamestaylor, be serious, the above is not.
Any bad management can destroy any operational feasibility of any aircraft.

My thoughts to PB crew

[TIMA9X]

Update rumour,
PB seem to have stalled getting it all back in the air. In Thailand the DCA are very slow to make a decision whether to revoke PB's routes license. At this point of time it would be very hard for another airline to take over the route, due to the paperwork involved, in Thailand that is no easy task, and PB has links to some wealthy Thais. Meanwhile many hundreds of people have been stranded.

For many of PB's routes this time of year is the peak seasion for them as they serviced some airports that were in the mountains of northern Thailand very popular for tourist who enjoy the cooler weather. If they don't get going soon then I am afraid all will be lost for them. Remember TG code shared with them and before the
flights were suspended TG even helped out with an ATR for a few days. MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery (http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01677965)
BKP then operated again for a few more flights until it all stopped.

The talk of Saab 340's still is just a rumour and the real problem seems to be settling any outstanding debts that they may have with BKP.

FSJ has a pretty good handle on the situation with his previous post. NOK have 737-400's available to them but unfortunately the 400's are too big for some of PB's old routes, it would be hard to get them to pay dividends and NOK currently operate out of the old Don Mueang not BKK as did PB Air.
cheers

[Thai Pom]

The rumour is that they still owe a bunch of money to Bangkok Airways. They only managed to keep going because TG were purchasing a block of seats on every flight, used or not.

[FSJ]

I think that PB were serious about Saabs. Co-Pilots already completed type rating training, and ex-pat Captains were hired (after local Captains all resigned in September).
Looks like Nok Air may be more serious about taking up the PB Air routes in the long-term. Probably being prompted by TG who have considerable interests in Nok. (Rumour is that the 2 TG ATR 72s currently in Chiang Mai will be transferred to Nok Air):
(Sakon Nakhon, Nakhon Phanom, Buriram) Ground Attendant - Thailand - JobsDB.com (http://th.jobsdb.com/TH/EN/Job.asp?R=JDBT093706912&RSS=1)

A few months ago, this article was published:
Lighter airplanes open new horizons for PB Air (http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/22767/lighter-airplanes-open-new-horizons-for-pb-air)

Also see below clip from local newspaper published last week. Reading between the lines, looks to me more like a PR stunt than fact based! Judge for yourselves...


A delay in the delivery of new aircraft has forced PB Air, an airline founded by Boon Rawd Brewery beer baron Piya Bhirom-Bhakdi, to halt its entire flight operation.
Delivery of the two Saab 340s, leased from the US-based aircraft lessor AeroCentury, was postponed because PB Air found the condition of the Swedish-made turboprops unacceptable.
The first Saab 340 was supposed to be delivered in September and the second in October, but the delivery was put off until "probably" the end of next month, said PB Air chief executive Pornsartid Naruenartwanich.
The airline was forced to suspend all flights, starting this month, as it has no aircraft at its disposal because of the delivery delay and Bangkok Airways repossessing two ATR 72-500 turboprops at the end of October it leased to PB Air.
Bangkok Airways declined to extend the lease of the two French-made ATRs to PB Air until the 33-seat Saab 340s are available because it wants to use them to serve high-season demand.
PB Air began the lease in April this year to substitute for two Brazilian-made Embraer ERJ 145 LR jets that were returned to the American aircraft lessor Gecas after seven years in the airline's service.
AeroCentury has not yet confirmed delivery by around Christmas of the planes leased for five years, said Mr Pornsartid.
PB Air's website said all flights were "suspended until further notice".
While it is unclear why PB Air declined to accept the two Saabs, he said: "We want to make sure that corrections are made to the two aircraft so when we take delivery they are in perfect condition."
He stopped short of saying PB Air would make the California-based aircraft leasing firm accountable for the loss of business opportunity during the high travel season.
PB Air operates from Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport to seven domestic destinations: Lampang, Mae Sot, Nan, Nakhon Phanom, Sakon Nakhon, Buri Ram and Roi-et.
The 19-year-old airline earlier announced plans to inaugurate flights to Chumphon, probably with four flights a week, and Surin, with three flights a week, later this year using the twin-engined Saab 340s.
The two Saab 340s leased by PB Air are about 12-13 years old, and were used in flights in the US previously.
The Saab 340 was first rolled out in 1983 and production ceased in 1999 after 459 were built.

[TIMA9X]

Hi ThaiFlyer, Yep you are right PB is no more, no direct route from Nan (NNT /VTCN) to BKK where I live.
SGA Airlines have teamed up with NOK air re branded NOK Mini http://myaviation.net/?pid=01709545 using a 12 seater 208B Grand Caravan NNT to CNX (Chiang Mai.)

A bit of a come down from the Bangkok Airways 70 seat ATR 72 500 but better than nothing.
On the NAN route BKP used many of their fleet of ATRs but these registrations were the most observed 1.http://myaviation.net/?pid=01583893
2.http://myaviation.net/?pid=01577051
Hope that answers your question.
Regards