When one has an engine failure......

[Chuck Ellsworth]

......in a single engine airplane and they have to land with no power why do they call it a dead stick landing?

I never could figure that out, to my way of thinking if it was a dead stick it would mean the controls were disconnected.:hmm:

[DERG]

The forward velocity provides the lift to overcome gravity, the greater the velocity the greater the lift. The control surfaces are useful above the stall speed, as the stall speed approaches the controls become less responsive because less air is flowing around them. As an aircraft lands the control yoke/stick movement becomes redundant because there is no longer enough air to provide lift. The stick is "dead", the aircraft is stalled and hopefully the ground is directly below the landing wheels.

[foxmoth]

The forward velocity provides the lift to overcome gravity, the greater the velocity the greater the lift. The control surfaces are useful above the stall speed, as the stall speed approaches the controls become less responsive because less air is flowing around them. As an aircraft lands the control yoke/stick movement becomes redundant because there is no longer enough air to provide lift. The stick is "dead", the aircraft is stalled and hopefully the ground is directly below the landing wheels.

B.S.:ouch:

My understanding is that this comes from when Props were always made from wood, hence when they stopped in an engine failure the prop was a "dead stick"

[tommoutrie]

its a contraction of "death on a stick" landing

[DERG]

Hiya Foxmoth

See your reasoning, would be most grateful if you could verify before the BS comment. Not for me to educate you.

[foxmoth]

More than just reasoning, read about over the years, whilst I knew this from pre internet days, if you google this you will find Wikipedia has this:-
Deadstick landing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing)

As far as the BS comment goes -As an aircraft lands the control yoke/stick movement becomes redundant because there is no longer enough air to provide lift. The stick is "dead", the aircraft is stalled and hopefully the ground is directly below the landing wheels. is total nonsense, and if it WAS the case would apply just as much with the engine running. Even in an engine off though you DO NOT stall the aircraft while still in the air (unless you have got it wrong) and in a tailwheel aircraft (the term comes from the time this was the norm) you keep the stick back after touchdown so it is NOT redundant.:}

n.b. have also heard the :-its a contraction of "death on a stick" landing over the years, but far from convinced by this one.

not sure by the way, why I should be educating you if you do not want to do that for me:hmm:

[DERG]

Yes Sir I often use the Wiki source myself. The difference between a pilot and an engineer is clear cut: the pilot is a machine minder, the engineer is a machine designer. Its a matter of integrity for me that I work from first principals. I follow a critical path as I was trained to do.:ok:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It seems the saying comes from the days of wooden props, so I have learned something new. :ok:

I always thought it referred to my stick going dead from fear when the engine quits. :E

Now if someone can explain why the Brits see two runways on final my day will be complete. :)

[foxmoth]

Now if someone can explain why the Brits see two runways on final

Not sure what you mean by this Chuck:confused:

[hugh flung_dung]

Foxmoth has it for the original question.

The answer to the supplementary is that the first person of royal blood to use a radio in an aircraft (Lord Bending, the third Earl of all saints) had a slight speech impediment. All loyal subjects (with the exception of the colonies) follow the lead of our aristocracy, hence the redundant "s". This is particularly present in the military who are frequently known to even call "initials" before "finals".

HTH to complete your day ;)
HFD

[SirLaughalot]

I think Chuck is referring to people who call 'finals' when on final approach.

[foxmoth]

Oh, got it now, thanks SirLA:ok:

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Wikipedia goes on to state that: 'The fixed position prop actually creates less drag and increases glide speed'.

No need to feather a dead engine then!

I'll remember that if I have an engine failure on a twin!!!

KR

FOK

PS: What they mean is that a fixed (stationary) position prop actually creates less drag than a 'windmillling' (rotating without power) propellor - but it doesn't say that and it may be confusing to some.

[DERG]

So a normal landing with forward push/pull "on tap" is NOT a controlled stall?

Last time I tried this was ..27 years ago.. maybe thats why I gave up. I got it all wrong...:cool:

[Tmbstory]

From memory in my early training days the term referred to a no engine glide approach and landing where you had one attempt at a landing, using the existing airflow at the time of the flare / round out and after that attempt you had no more available authority from the elevator.

Tmb

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Chuck,

This is my understanding of the term 'dead stick'.

When a single piston engine is running normally, the pilot can feel the vibration of the engine through the control column, because prop wash from that single engine is flowing over the tail at a higher velocity than the rate that freestream air is passing over the remainder of the airframe. The aircraft is responsive to the pilot's control inputs and the engine vibration felt through the control column makes the aeroplane feel almost like a living creature.

When the engine fails, the pilot can no longer feel engine vibration through the control column. The stick feels 'dead' in his/her hands. The aircraft ceases to be so responsive because the rate of airflow over the tail surfaces is now only the same as free-stream air over the rest of the airframe.

As speed reduces during the final stages of landing, greater control inputs have to be applied and the aircraft feels increasingly less responsive and the control column feels 'dead'; in short it's a 'dead stick'.

Any landing made under these conditions is a 'dead stick' landing.

'Hope you are well.

Regards,

Broomstick.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

In that case almost all of my landings are dead stick because I close the throttle/ 's at about fifty feet or more above the landing surface.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Chuck,

No, the stick is only 'dead' when the engine's 'dead'.

If I recall rightly, back in 1960 when all landings, in light aircraft were ordinarilly made by means of a glide approach, I was taught to commence powered descent from circuit height immediately I entered base leg. Then, before the final turn onto the approach, to close the Auster's throttle completely, (I suppose at about 500-600ft). I then did a gliding turn onto final.

Once the throttle was closed, apart from revving the engine briefly once or twice to clear any oil that might have been collecting over the engine pistons, (which was an in-line, inverted, four-cylinder unit,) I glided all the way down to a landing. So I closed my throttle then long before you do now. Nevertheless, that was an ordinary glide approach landing, not a 'dead stick' landing.

This was because the engine was still idling. I could still feel its vibration through the control column and it could still be called forth to give me an overshoot if circumstances required.

With a 'dead stick' landing, the aeroplane would have been a glider; no engine vibration at all. There would be silence except for the sound of slipstream. Now that's 'dead stick'.

So far as I know, the term 'dead stick' was a pilot's conversational term rather than a technical one, but it was part of normal flying parlance and in general use. Judging from the posts that have appeared on this thread, 'dead stick' would appear to be a term that has all but disappeared. I'm surprised.

'Hope this helps.

Broomstick.