Difficulty Printing via Wireless

[mcdhu]

Gents, please would you help me with this conundrum.

I run a small, modest wireless network at home consisting of the main household PC (Dell Dimension running Win Xp) connected via ethernet cable to a Netgear Wireless Modem Router. The printer is a Canon MP 520 connected to this main PC via USB. As per most families, various other iPod Touches, Laptops, bedroom PCs etc are connected to the network wirelessly and, for the most part, work well. We all use Win Xp SP3 and AOL BB. I recently added a Samsung N110 Netbook to the network for my son's 6th form work - also running Win Xp. It found the printer ok and works, but every few days, when the lad goes to print something, the Netbook says it can't and asks that we check that the printer is on, a test page is printed and mentions something about a server. Uninstalling and reinstalling the printer restores everything and off we go again - but it keeps happening!

My knowledge is very basic, but my investigations have led me to wonder if all the devices on the network have to have the same Workgroup name - some of mine have the default MSHOME (My Computer - Properties - Computer Name - Workgroup) and some have another name. Might this have anything to do with the problem? A pal with good knowledge thinks that the Workgroup name should be the name of the wireless network.

Any advice would be gratefully received, but please keep it fairly simple.

Many thanks
mcdhu

[Simonta]

Ouch, Tough one. Please do set the workgroup name to the same on all PCs on the network but no, it doesn't have to be the same as the network name. Do you happen to know if the printer is installed as a network printer or a local printer which is shared?

[Saab Dastard]

The printer is a Canon MP 520 connected to this main PC via USB.

Local, shared?

Does it make a difference if it's XP home or Pro? I keep forgetting how crippled Home is. :hmm:

SD

[mcdhu]

Mmm.........how would I find that out? I think it is a local printer which is shared on all the other remote devices. In the meantime, I'll reset the workgroup name throughout the network.

Thanks
mcdhu

[Saab Dastard]

I find that the easiest way to keep access working for multiple users sharing resources in a workgroup is for each user to have an account with the same name and password on each PC.

mcdhu, a resource (like a printer) is shared on the PC where it is located.

Again, Home or Pro makes a difference as to the solution.

SD

[mcdhu]

We are using Win Xp Home 2003 Edition with SP3

From definitions I can find, the printer is a local shared printer ie no print server involved.

I have made sure that all the computers in the workgroup have the same workgroup title and have also restarted the Print Spooler Service.

I guess we wait to see what happens?

Many thanks,
mcdhu

[Mike-Bracknell]

This I believe is a permissions issue.

To confirm it's a permissions issue, map a network drive to the desktop PC from the laptop. Then try to print.

If it works (as I suspect it will), then to ensure this continues you have two choices:

1) Continue to keep a mapped drive to that desktop PC (as the credentials used when mapping to that drive will be passed to the PC when a print job is created).

2) Enable the "guest" account on the desktop PC and set the password to NULL (i.e. no characters). This will allow other computers/users outside of the desktop's security realm to log into it when it sends the job.

[Mike-Bracknell]

In the meantime, I'll reset the workgroup name throughout the network.
Since it's a workgroup, not a domain, it'll make NO difference whatsoever to rename the workgroup name, as a workgroup's security realm only extends as far as the perimeter of the PC itself. The only benefits you would get with renaming all workgroups to be the same is they'd appear in the same browse list, but since browse-lists and browse-mastering have no place in direct connections it'll be an irrelevance.

(trust me, I wrote a whitepaper on browse-mastering way back in 1996)

[mad_jock]

This is another guess so I will set myself up to be talking bollocks again....

Isn't there a number of connections issue with XP home. 5or 6 rings a bell.

Its to make you get Pro or server.

I got my wings just as XP was being rolled out so have never really played with it in a network environment.

[Saab Dastard]

1) Continue to keep a mapped drive to that desktop PC (as the credentials used when mapping to that drive will be passed to the PC when a print job is created).

2) Enable the "guest" account on the desktop PC and set the password to NULL (i.e. no characters). This will allow other computers/users outside of the desktop's security realm to log into it when it sends the job.

Mike, 1) works but it's a chore. 2) is hardly good security.

As I pointed out earlier, having a user account with the same password on each PC works fine - every time you want to use a resource on a different PC, your credentials are always correct. :ok:

MJ - good point: Home is limited to 5, Pro is 10, IIRC.

You can view sessions via Computer Manager \ System Tools \ Shared Folders \ Sessions.

SD

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I find that the easiest way to keep access working for multiple users sharing resources in a workgroup is for each user to have an account with the same name and password on each PC.
Which tediousity I prefer to avoid by setting up a domain controller. (And hence, of course, no "home" versions of operating systems, as this is where the crippling comes in.)

[Saab Dastard]

by setting up a domain controller.

Indeed, providing that you have access to a server license! Or you install an open source DC on a Linux platform.

I think this is getting somewhat beyond the desire (if not capability) of the average home user!

SD

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Indeed, providing that you have access to a server license! Or you install an open source DC on a Linux platform.

I think this is getting somewhat beyond the desire (if not capability) of the average home user!
Well, OK, so I'm a programmer, so I have an MSDN subscription, so I have a "free" server licence. But it does mean that when one of the family machines is out that person can log onto someone else's machine and just carry on as normal without any faffing around with accounts and permissions.

I agree that most home users won't want to spend the money on a server licence, but I disagree that most users of family networks don't have any desire for the simplified user management.

[mad_jock]

To be honest mcdhu seems to have got to the stage that's all ways a pain. Just a little to big for the "home" stuff of Microsoft but a pain and expensive to do it how microsoft want it.

And that's not any slur on yourself mcdhu. It's a microsoft ploy to suck you into there world of ever increasing hardware costs and software licenses.

What do the guru's recon on these box's of tricks?

DP-G310 WiFi AirPlus G USB printing server.

LINKSYS WPSM54G 54 Mbps WiFi Print Server - USB 2.0

I have used a linksys print server before but I can't remember much about it. Which is usually a good sign because that means it was a 10 min install with no swearing involved.

I would check it though to make sure that it can provide the full functions of the printer. Some box's are just a cut down linux installation which only do printing jobs and others allow you to access all the functions of the printer/scanner etc.

WIFI PRINTER SERVERS review cheap prices WIFI PRINTER SERVERS best buy discount online (http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/1668/xx/xx/440/9/criteresn.html)

I include this link just to show you what's about. I have never used this company or would suggest you buy from them.

[Saab Dastard]

GtW,

I agree with you that we would all like network sharing / user account management to be easier - the "desire" I was referring to was the desire (of "the man on the Clapham Omnibus") to spend additional money and time to configure domain controllers or delve into Linux-based open-source solutions.

SD

[mcdhu]

Thanks gents - I've got the message which I will ponder awhile!

Regards all
mcdhu

[mcdhu]

..........things are getting worse. This thing happened again so I took the usual step of deleting the printer from the netbook and cannot now instal it. When I ask it to browse for the printer it does not find it and when I tell it the name of the printer it will still not accept that. I'm doing all this via CP - Printers and Faxes.

I have reduced the number of attached devices to 3 and said netbook is happily locked to the wireless network.

Before I go to a mate for Logmein help, has anyone got any further simple ideas.

Thanks
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

Turn off all other computers

Reboot the computer that the printer is hanging off.

Start the netbook.

Try installing printer again.

Report back.

[Keef]

As MJ says.

Getting a recalcitrant network link to work is a strange task. You try everything, and nothing works. Then, all of a sudden, there it is. My VPN from here to Essex did that on Wednesday.

My router has a printer USB socket on it, which I thought was a spiffing idea. Then I found it's "one direction only" - the printer can't report back when it's out of toner, or paper, or whatever. I went back to printer on desktop, shared over network.

[Saab Dastard]

I spent an hour wondering why the **** I couldn't get No.1 son's PC to print to the Laserjet on another home PC, as I had just built him a new one following PSU failure on his Compaq PC (and Compaq PCs have bespoke PSUs that are not realistically replaceable).

It finally dawned on me that I had set logon time restrictions for him on the remote PC (to which the printer is attached), so his credentials were rejected outside of his allowed logon time.

Doh!

SD

[mcdhu]

MJ (and others) thanks. Will do, but the recalcitrant netbook is currently languishing at the RGS. It should be home about 5!!

Many thanks
mcdhu

[Mike-Bracknell]

Quote:
1) Continue to keep a mapped drive to that desktop PC (as the credentials used when mapping to that drive will be passed to the PC when a print job is created).

2) Enable the "guest" account on the desktop PC and set the password to NULL (i.e. no characters). This will allow other computers/users outside of the desktop's security realm to log into it when it sends the job.
Mike, 1) works but it's a chore. 2) is hardly good security.

Oh I agree about #2, but #1 is hardly a chore when it's a one-time drive mapping (remembering to tick the box to keep the mapping past a reboot).

It'll also fix the latest issue reported about not being able to see the printer. Printer security is dealt with by Windows in exactly the same way as mapped drives, except you don't get an interface with which to do anything - hence the mapped drive trick is using exactly the same technique as your favourite one of keeping credentials the same on all PCs - it's passing credentials through security realms as the duple matches.

[Saab Dastard]

but #1 is hardly a chore when it's a one-time drive mapping (remembering to tick the box to keep the mapping past a reboot).

Fair enough - as long as you aren't prompted for a username and password to connect to the share every time you log in!

Also, persistent mappings will slow the login process significantly if the remote share is not available, which tends to happen often in home environments, especially with laptops that get used outside the home network. Maybe Vista / Win7 improves this, but I gave up with persistent mappings with Win2K and previous.

SD

[mcdhu]

OK - that seemed to work. I've checked via properties on the PC to which the printer concerned is hardwired that all was well and then fired up the netbook now safely home from a hard day's studies. It had me fooled at first because when I asked it to browse for the printer, it came up with the name of the PC which I eventually realised you have to click on to get the printer itself.

So let's hope that 2xlaptops, 2xi-touches, a remote PC and a router don't blow the main PC's mind!

Thanks MJ
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

I think it will.

A printer connection from one PC is counted as 1 connection and a mapped network drive from the same machine is counted as another connection.

I suspect you are busting your 5 connections limit for XP home.

Get one of those server boxes they really are a piece of piss to install and you won't need to worry about number of connections again or have to fiddle around getting account details right. If you want to print to it remotely just set up a queue on your main machine and share it. You shouldn't have any problems with the number of connections after all the other devices are printing direct.

I am sure if you ask nicely someone will have used one recently and can advise which current one is the best for what you want.

They are all of a muchness so if you struggle setting it up post on here and we will talk you through it.