Archerfield planning new single runway

[megle2]

Anybody seen the master plan for Archerfield.
Plans to close all runways and replace with a new one 15 / 33.

[Kwod]

What time frame is there on this plan ?:uhoh:

[Frank Arouet]

Submission Expiry date: Friday 6th November 2009
Submissions should be sent to: Marcom Communications
Archerfield Airport Master Plan 2010 - 2030
PO Box 3166
Norman Park, Qld 4170
Fax: 3391 0584
For more information please call: 1800 637 876

[rodrigues]

Really? :eek:

Would finally deliver some tough X-Wind experience to the YBAF students.

What's the reasoning? What is planned to become of the extra space?

[Worrals in the wilds]

I'm surprised the Archerfield master plan has any runways at all, having always heard (and thought) that they intended to sell the whole thing off for industrial land as soon as they possibly could.


Would finally deliver some tough X-Wind experience to the YBAF students.

It's certainly easy to avoid if the weather's fine, but if there's more than a drop of rain anywhere in Brisbane you can have plenty of X wind practice, because the grassed areas and strips turn into a marine park (unless they've fixed them in recent years).

[Merh]

No, you're right Worrals, 04/22's are still out of action after any amount rain.

On any other day though, any serious x-wind is alleviated by a runway change to the above mentioned.

[Jazzy78910]

Interesting that they haven't proposed 2 parallel runways instead... Sure, 04/22 L and R are quite redundant, but surely a new single runway will not cater for the amount of traffic they would have.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I'm surprised the Archerfield master plan has any runways at all, having always heard (and thought) that they intended to sell the whole thing off for industrial land as soon as they possibly could

Yes, why waste money on a new runway when the aerodrome is doomed anyway?

Does anyone actually still go there?

Dr :8

[PA39]

I have been told as AF was a military airbase in the second world war, it is a stipulation that an "airstrip" will always exist. However this runway only has to be a few meters in length.

There are big plans for AF, and none include aviation. Prime real estate, bought for a "song", ready for subdivision into industrial lots. There is more $$ in dirt than aviation. Sad, very sad.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

YAY!

Plans to close all runways and replace with a new one 15 / 33.

Lets put a new runway in along a direction that has no available length on the ever reducing size of the airfield and will send twins straight ahead into Mt Cootha if they have an EFATO on Rwy 33!

ABOLUTELY FCUKING BRILLIANT!!!!:ugh:

[Aerohooligan]

And of course Captain, any singles that have an EFATO will end up in my backyard...

All in all a completely f**king stupid idea, but we saw it coming, didn't we?

AAC are a bunch of corporate a**holes. :yuk:

[2b2]

Does anyone actually still go there?


Chinese just started - lots more coming



but surely a new single runway will not cater for the amount of traffic they would have.

no, it won't



I have been told as AF was a military airbase in the second world war, it is a stipulation that an "airstrip" will always exist. ....
Prime real estate, bought for a "song", ready for subdivision into industrial lots.

no one bought anything - they leased an airport

The people who thought they could sell Jandakot found that out.

Jandakot Airport Proposed Relocation (http://www.domain-ix.net/jacc/)

http://www.judithadams.com.au/pdf/Jandakot_Airport_Letter.pdf

note particularly the last three paragraphs of the Vaile letter

[Worrals in the wilds]

no one bought anything - they leased an airport

...and of course you're right. For some inane reason I didn't think the Airports Act applied to YBAF, but it does...you learn something every day:ok:

The other key point in the Vaile letter is that he received plenty of letters expressing concern.

[LeadSled]

All,

So what are you all going to do about it , something useful, like some serious political pressure on the Minister, by seriously getting behind the Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce ---- or just wave your arms around and winge.

The AACC have done a mountain of work, the Scouting Association have done a mountain of work, since Archerfield Airport bulldozed their Air Activities center.

The Jandakot progress was only made because of political pressure - action.

The recent canning of the provision that the airport leaseholders were their own consent authority for development below $20M, by the Minister, (amazing, all those $19,999,999 developments) only happened because of political pressure - action, this time at Bankstown --- but sadly not on-airport people.

Tootle pip!!

[Ando1Bar]

From AAC:


As many of you know, I have held 3 meetings, to date, for the purpose of consulting with Archerfield aviation operators on operational and general airport issues. We have now started to also discuss the Master Planning process which is underway.

As part of the planning process, you should all have received a Tenant Survey form, from us, asking for your input. We have requested that you return this to our consultants by 6th November. This form is also available on the new airport website at www.archerfieldairport.com.au (http://www.archerfieldairport.com.au).

Now, I am very concerned that there is a serious misconception in the minds of some members of the airport chamber of commerce about the future of Archerfield Airport.

I would like to take this opportunity to assure all of you that the airport WILL REMAIN OPEN AND FULLY OPERATIONAL AS AN AIRPORT. Nobody at AAC has any thoughts of closing the airport!!

Our last meeting was held on Friday 30th October and an incorrect statement has been circulated by the Archerfield chamber of commerce as follows:
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']“On Friday at a “consultation meeting” convened at less than 24 hours notice, AAC advised attendees that AAC intends in their Draft Master Plan to CLOSE BOTH MAIN RUNWAYS at Archerfield Airport and to CLOSE BOTH CROSS RUNSWAYS and to reduce the airport to one new runway 15/33 starting roughly where the Scouts Air Activities Centre used to be.”

Regrettably this is a serious misrepresentation of the facts of the meeting, as those of you who attended will be able to confirm, and a regrettable attempt to undermine the consultative process and spread some sort of panic in the aviation community which depends on Archerfield Airport.
These are the indisputable facts:

1. The meeting on Friday 30th was the third of a series of meetings which have been advertised to everyone on our e-mail listing. The invitation was originally sent on 21st October and a reminder was sent on 29th October. The next meeting is planned for Friday 20th November and details will be e-mailed to you all, and will also appear on the new website.

2. At no time was anything said about closing the main 10/28 runway complex.

In fact quite to the contrary, we are planning to upgrade and strengthen the 10/28 runway. There is a study being conducted on past runway use, prevailing wind conditions and NOTAM’d outages of runways to determine the useage of the different runway directions. It is a possibility that the 04/22 complex could be realigned to fall more into line with prevailing wind patterns and if that was to occur, then it may be possible to seal one runway to avoid it being NOTAM’d out due to soft wet surface. All of this is under consideration at present and that is why we wish to engage in discussion with you, the operators, to understand your needs and any ideas that might benefit all parties in the future.
We would like to do this in a balanced and professional way. Archerfield Airport is a member of the

3. There is absolutely no intention of closing Archerfield Airport by the current owners of the Corporation. In fact, the opposite is true and they have a vision to improve operating capacity and facilities at the airport. This will become evident in the new master plan when the first draft is completed in the New Year.

4. The new website at www.archerfieldairport.com.au will become an important tool of communication with all interested parties. It will be used to advertise meetings, publish details of the master planning process, airport charges, and all other relevant information.

5. The website also provides a listing facility for all airport tenants to advertise their businesses, free of charge, and we encourage you to use this.

An additional point of discussion at the last meeting was the displaced threshold of Rwy 10L. Everyone should be aware that this matter has been the subject of an extensive ATSB investigation involving Airservices, CASA and AAC. The report is essentially complete and we understand that it should be available to us within a matter of weeks.

We firmly believe that this will clear up all the misconceptions and issues surrounding the issue of mechanical turbulence from the new hangars and the displaced threshold matter.

There has been a very thorough investigation and I can only suggest that all interested parties should wait for the final report before jumping to any conclusions.

In the meantime, please note that we have queried the amendment in the new ERSA and Airservices have advised us that it is in error.
A new NOTAM has been issued today and is copied here:
C0272/09 NOTAMN Q) YBBB/QXXXX/IV/BO/A/000/999/2734S15301E A) YBAF B) 0911181600 C) PERM E) STANDARD DIST FOR RWY 28R DEP IN VMC: RWY TORA TODA 28R 1419(4655) 1479(4852)(2.83) SUPPLEMENTARY TAKEOFF DISTANCES: RWY 28R 1124(3688)(1.6) 1251(4104)(1.9) 1350(4429)(2.2) 1431(4695)(2.5) AMD AIP ERSA
Best regards,
Desmond L Ross (Capt.)
General Manager
Archerfield Airport Corporation

...........

[2b2]

It is a possibility that the 04/22 complex could be realigned to fall more into line with prevailing wind patterns and if that was to occur, then it may be possible to seal one runway to avoid it being NOTAM’d out due to soft wet surface


This will be the key to the new masterplan -

a) a new 04/22 complex (i.e. 2 runways), one of which will be sealed

or

b) one sealed runway to replace the two 04/22 runways

ask anyone at Jandakot how well a single runway works in a GAAP training environment. 2 or 3 at a time in the circuit max??

[PyroTek]

ask anyone at Jandakot how well a single runway works in a GAAP training environment. 2 or 3 at a time in the circuit max??

Not sure how this will make things different, but it will be Class D next year anyway.
Also, isn't it max 6 in the circuit at any one time?

[2b2]

Not sure how this will make things different, but it will be Class D next year anyway.
Also, isn't it max 6 in the circuit at any one time?

yep - 6 in one circuit (one runway) doing circuits - 6 arrivals and departures in the other circuit (other runway).

take away one runway and you still have the 6 arrivals and departures - something has to give (and that something is the number doing circuits)

[CEOAAA]

Ando,

Many thanks - a voice of reason I suspect.

I guess my 'call sign' will give me away. That said I am really tired of the campaign being mounted by a few- mainly the YBAF C of C -against what AAC is thought to be doing.

We are in constant communication with AAC on a range of fronts - new leases, facilities and sealed cross runways. Guess what - we get a very positive hearing - and leases. We are not in the least worried about the new Master Plan simply because we talk with AAC and we present sound business cases for what we want.

As the largest FTO at YBAF in terms of students, instructors, aircraft, hours flown and monthly bills (with considerable growth next year) paid to AAC I am not surprised that they do listen to us. I appreciate that others claim such position - however, I will let the stats, and the fuel truck numbers settle such claims.

So, can we please bring some reason back to the debate and can you all check your facts.

Given our monthly bill to AAC, and our fuel suppliers, we would really like to find a way to reducing our costs but unfortunately, as I said in one of my previous posts - no one has yet given us the key to 'Alice's Portal' where all things aviation related are free.

If there is anyone out there who has the answer we are only too happy to listen.

Cheers

[2b2]

facilities and sealed cross runways

great news - nothing to worry about then.

[Worrals in the wilds]

CEOAAA,
If the AAC is being adversely affected by gossip then maybe they need to assess their PR and communications. For many years Brisbane has been a town that thrives on rumours and conspiracy theories :suspect:, but these are only fuelled by a lack of credible information from the corporation about their future plans for the airport.

In the past there has been a serious lack of investment in aviation infrastructure, particularly in regards to security. A few examples include students drag racing cars on the main runway, kids opening gates and wandering around taxiways, aircraft being grafittied and fuel being drained from aircraft tanks overnight. Despite all of this, the AAC failed to provide ample lighting, CCTV or increased security patrols. Additionally, the majority of the airfield apparently still floods and becomes unusable at the first sign of rain.

Archerfield is supposed to be the primary training and GA airport for Australia’s third biggest city, yet it still operates with 1960s infrastructure, little of which has been improved by the private lessees. It has substantial historical importance (Brisbane’s primary airport until WW2 and a heritage listed terminal) and superior facilities with its two sealed runways and multiple flying schools, and yet the common view here on PPruNe and in Brisbane aviation circles is that Redcliffe is the better training option. To quote Professor Julius Sumner, Why is this so?

You refer to your monthly bill to the AAC, which I assume is substantial. As a fellow former contributor to the AAC (in landing fees) I came to the conclusion that my money was not being well spent. Until this thread, for one reason or another I thought Archerfield was a private airport, but it isn’t (thanks 2B2! :ok:). Under the Airports Act and its Regulations, the AAC has an obligation to administer an airport on behalf of the Crown. That’s an airport, not an industrial park, housing estate or any other funky project involving Devine Limited or similar companies.

Sure, BAC runs a bunch of money making ventures at Brisbane Airport (check out the new butcher, ASIC discounts and fresh rabbits direct from the airfield to you :}) but they make damn sure they provide a viable airport to comply with their Crown lease. Does the AAC?

If the AAC is finally going to provide some aviation infrastructure and improve their facilities then full marks to them. If by doing so they encounter nothing but scepticism, then they only have themselves to blame.

[Queenslander]

Is this the end of Archerfield as we know it........

If so, what do we do, Caboolture is rumoured to be going, Caloundra IS going, Redcliffe is at MAX capacity now, so that leaves YBMC and YBCG......... aviation in and around Brisbane is finished:{

Can anything be done to save the situation...............

If we look at Bankstown and Jandakot they have the same issues as Archerfield, is aviation in Australia dying or is it already terminally ill and is about to be pronounced dead soon?

The minister has NO idea what he is doing, that’s what you get with a politician full of wind and no substance to that wind..........

It’s sad to say this, but we do know this, whilst we have the current political party in power it is RIP GA in Australia.

[Jazzy78910]

It does seem that General Aviation in Australia is a minority, and most of the general populous look at it with either disinterest or anger. It's a shame the average person only see's aircraft movements around Archerfield as bothersome noise pollution.

With the majority not giving a damn about the shape of aviation in Oz, it's more than likely aerodromes will have to keep closing or moving out of the towns that have grown up around them.

Archer should stay for now in some capacity, but the day WILL come where they close it for good.