hypoxia training!

[tuj]

SLF here, was curious if commercial pilots get any hypoxia recognition training like military pilots? Or all just text-book?

[corsair]

It's all text book.

[tuj]

Are any of you pro's concerned at all that you may not recognize hypoxia? I understand the personal effects and limitations are very different between individuals. Sorry if this is a non-concern to you pro's; I know there are warnings for loss of cabin pressure, but we also know that they can be misinterpreted in some cases.

Let me put it this way, those of you pro pilots, would you add hypoxia experience as part of commercial flight training? Or do you feel its of marginal value? Surely the cost of simulating high altitudes cannot be that great, no?

[WELCO]

Although I've never heard of such kind of training, it might be possible to do it according to some theoretical facts. For example, if rapid cabin decompression occurs, the TUC (Time of Useful Conciousness) will be about 20 minutes at 18,000 ft. TUC shall rapidly decline at higher altitudes. Workload, individual fitness and smokin will influence hypoxia too.

[tuj]

From the NTSB report on Learjet 35 N47BA crash in 1999:

Research has shown that a period of as little as 8 seconds without supplemental oxygen following rapid depressurization to about 30,000 feet (9,100 m) may cause a drop in oxygen saturation that can significantly impair cognitive functioning and increase the amount of time required to complete complex tasks.

I find that troubling. If hypoxia symptoms can onset that fast from a decompression at a relatively normal FL, shouldn't one pilot be on O2 all the time? (I know that might sound silly, sorry SLF here)

[scott5988]

Tuj,

I believe that certain bizz jets, single pilot, require you to have a mask on.


scott :ok:

[usedtofly]

Tuj,

Perhaps you might consider it safer not to fly at all :}

[DeltaGolf]

it depends what kind of plane you are flying, if you are flying a C172 as a commercial pilot, you would probably get only definitions from books. If you have to fly a plane that goes above FL250 you need to get a High Altitude endorsement, where you train for symptoms like hypoxia. (at least in USA)

some schools will provide a Hypoxia training, I did a training in a Medical center in Melbourne,FL where they put you in a chamber and simulates the loss of ambient pressure as you go up in altitude, and you get HYPOXIC. it was a really good experience

[Torque Tonight]

In my military days I undertook hypoxia/decompression training and found it very educational and amusing! I'm very glad I did it. However, it would not be practical to include it in commercial training. During my civil MCC and Type Rating, recognition of and reaction to a cabin altitude warning was covered in depth.

I reckon most competent airline pilots would probably have the mask on within 5 seconds of a cabin alt alert.

[WELCO]

Tuj,

Hypoxia is unlikely to occur below 10,000 ft. If it ever happens at a very high altitude, let's say 40,000 ft, TUC is nearly 12 seconds after rapid decompression, or 25 seconds after a gradual decompression with minimum physical activity. Would'nt that be long enough to put the oxygen masks on and commence a descent to MSA??
According to EASA, no hypoxia training is recommended at all for commercial flying.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I've done the Hypoxia course at North Luffenham (before the move to Henlow - I'm an old fart these days) and its a real eye opener.

Its the one thing the CAA should mandate and scrap the pointless box ticking days where you 're-learn' how to point a fire extinguisher or open a door.

I felt I was fine. The others were being effected. Look at him - its like he's had 7 Stellas! I'm fine. Why isn't it effecting me? I must have brilliant lungs! My god I'm the best they've ever seen!


Then I put my mask on after being shouted at to do so by some panicky idiot who didn't realise I was actually fine...




Oh.



Ah.



The counting backwards in 3's from 117 stopped at above 60 and started going up, then down, then down again in 2's then in 8's. My attempts to draw an elephant tailed off into a scribble then constant figures of eight.

Its very, very, dangerous.

Its very, very possible.

Its very, very casually treated.


WWW

[acepilotmurdock]

The flight school I went to offer hypoxia training and is very constructive and good. You don't just count backwards, you actually fly and take instructions. Here is the training YouTube - Decompression Training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rMXGkSpFsU)

[tuj]

WWW: you felt those effects after you were hypoxic but back on the mask? How long did it take you back on the mask to get back to full mental speed?

BTW: its not that as a SLF I feel afraid to fly; I don't. I'm just surprised that there have been at least 4 accidents (eg. Helios) suggesting hypoxia as a major factor and yet not everyone trains on it? Is it a cost or safety issue? I would think you could simulate it without a chamber by varying the O2 mix on a mask, no? (in fact, it appears there is at least one commercial vendor with this technique)

Much thanks for all the insight from you pros up front! :ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

10 s afer mask on and you're fine.



The dangerous bit is that the current training is inadequate. You don't know you are hypoxic and your fellow pilot won't know either. You're pissed. He's pissed. Its nice. Its....... ZZzzzzz..



Helios. 2005. 121 dead.







WWW

[WELCO]

Experiencing hypoxia totally differs from knowing what it is all about in theory. But the fact is that you don't have to try drugs to know how would they affect you if you are to be a good doctor just explains it! If you learn what would the symptoms be + TUC,s and follow a standard procedure of breathing O2 and descending to 10,000 ft or to MSA, then that will undoubtedly save lives!