Wireless router - Signal quality problems

[One9iner]

Apologies if this has been covered previously... Be careful, first post in this room for me, and I'm not the best when it comes to I.T. (Not bad like a granny would be, but not on par with most of you probably)

I have had an issue with my laptop maintaining a consistent connection to my router for some time, but it's been getting worse lately.

I have a Netgear modem and Dell laptop (:ugh:) . . . Both under 2 years old.

My router is situated in the hall of my 1 story flat, approx 5m from my desk in another room. Most of the time, signal strength is 'Excellent' and provides 54mbps connection between the two, however sometimes will drop to 'Poor' and 9mbps.

I've tried turning off the router, unplugging power and phone line, and then back on after 5 minutes which I've been told re-sets the connection?

The router isn't obscured by furniture and there is only 1 wall between the two devices...

Any tips appreciated
One9er

[Saab Dastard]

If signal strength is sometimes excellent, then there is nothing in the physical environment that is blocking the signal - unless you periodically slide steel doors around!

I would suspect that interference is the most likely problem - and not just from other wifi access points, as mobiles, cordless phones, microwaves, bluetooth devices, TV remotes etc. can also cause interference.

The best thing you can do is to change the channel on your wifi access point. Assuming that all others in your neighbourhood are set to default channel 1, try 11, or 6 (1, 6 and 11 are the non-overlapping channels for 802.11b & g). Outside the US, you can go up to channel 13, so 1, 5, 9 and 13 are non-overlapping possibilities in Europe.

Also, ensure that the access point is set to ONLY g, not both b and g (especially if you want to use channels 12-13).

You shouldn't need to disconnect everything for 5 minutes if you want to reset your router - the only reason for waiting a while would be to release / renew your IP address lease from your ISP. Just pulling the power for a second or two will reboot the router.

SD

[mad_jock]

Don't put your mobile phone next to either your router or your laptop while your working on it.

Had a dozy bitch secretary determined her perfectly adequate laptop (why the hell a secretary needed a laptop could never be explained to me) needed upgraded to the latest singing and dancing Dell model 1 week after the guarantee ran out on her one.

One of the windows lads mucked about with it for a week trying various things until I went to see if she was well endowed in the chest department to warrant 6 visits.

Turned out she had an alien mobile holder next to the laptop screen with her mobile parked in it. When the windows lad had put a USB antenna in taped to the wall she didn't like the look of it and had pulled it down to sit underneath the holder.

Every 45mins which is how often Nokias pole the network her connection would drop. Apparently loosing weeks worth of data every time it did it.

Took the CEO to get involved before she was forced to turn her mobile off as per the company handbook.

[The late XV105]

I second trying each channel in turn. Not only might you have interference from other electrical devices creating RF interference but you might also be getting interference from a neighbour with the same, or close numerically, channel. Up to 4 channels either side will cause interference to some degree. I was lucky because I also set up the wireless routers of my immediate neighbours so chose channels to avoid such clash with each other! At a later date I added a second wireless access points to my home network and spacing the channels had a dramatic effect on it (9Mbps to 54Mbps and 2 out of five bars strength to 4 out of five).

I also recommend picking up the wireless router well away from the floor and also ensuring it is as far away from a wall, radiator, or corner of the room as is practicable to achieve

[One9iner]

Great information guys... Need to translate a bit of it on google to turn it into idiotenglish but all the same; lots of things to give a go! Thanks

I've just tried the 'keep the mobile away from the laptop' method, and there seems to be a definite link between mobile phone proximity and laptop wireless performance... Although the mobile being in a different room doesn't return the signal quality to it's best. yet.

Should I be a secretary?!! No ! before you try to answer that one.

I'll get testing all other options provided.

Thanks & regards.

19er

[mad_jock]

Try fiddling with the angle of your router aerials start them straight up and then drop them towards the horizontal by 5 degrees at a time. It sometimes helps if there is a lump of metal in the way.

Another tip is make sure your power pack for the laptop is not sitting on the table next to the machine. And run your hands along the cable and make sure you don't have any major kinks or knackard bits which might be arcing internally.

Next couple are a bit harder to sort out. There may be a ring main coming down the wall between you and the laptop. Suggest shift your chair, or move the router a couple of foot along the wall.

And a final one if you have an immersion heater turn it off. If the signal improves get a new one the current one is on its way out. Sometimes central heating systems can also cause similar effects when the pump starts and it is also on its way out. If you run a FM radio with nothing tuned on it, you should be able to hear any dodgy signal producers clicking in and out.

[Wader2]

Download NETSTUMBLER and run it. It will show all other neyworks in range, their channel numbers, and signal/noise ratio. You should also note that the ferquency range for adjacent channels overlaps. Offhand I think you need 5 or 6 channel separation to avoid mutual interference.

Routers do degrade. I had a Linksys and eventually a hard reset improved functionality but it degraded again. I switched to a BT Voyager - works a treat.

Slight drift. Should you leave a router on over night or switch off to save power? I run a router, print server, printer, WLAN drive; they use about 0.01 kWh.

[x213a]

Who is your internet provider?
I have a Netgear router on SKY BB. SKY only support something like channels 1, 6 and 11 on routers. (I think). Will check website and find out.

From the SKY website:

By default your router will be set to 'Auto.' To change the channel, you need to log into your router:
Open your web browser, type 192.168.0.1 in the address bar, and press Enter.
In the log-in box that appears, enter the username admin and the password sky.
Select Wireless Settings from the menu
The number listed in the Channel drop-down menu in the Wireless Network section should be 1, 6 or 11.
Try changing it to a different number - but choose from 1, 6 or 11 as these are the only channels suited for Sky Broadband. Click apply when you've made your selection.
Try each option in turn to see which gives you the best signal.
This will vary from home to home, depending on which channels other wireless devices in your area are using.

[Saab Dastard]

but choose from 1, 6 or 11 as these are the only channels suited for Sky Broadband

No reflection on you x213a, but that is pathetic! Typical bull**** to baffle non-technical home users.

One can use any channel between 1 and 11 in the USA, and 1-13 in most other countries. In Japan you can use up to 14 channels!

There is no link whatsoever between the channel in use on a wifi network and the upstream ISP network, whoever they may be.

SD

[mad_jock]

Come on guys try and troubleshoot logically.

The user has reported that he does get good signal most of the time. It just occasionally drops then goes back up again.

You can presume he hasn't fiddled with the settings because the signal returns. And he has asked here for advice so is unlikely to have had a fiddle solo.

The fact that it is a transitory effect means that the local infrastructure isn't likely to be the problem otherwise the signal would be low consistently or it would cycle with a obvious frequency while the box's fight it out.

Then using the KISS principle it must be something near by that is interfering with the signal. It takes 5 mins to shift mobile phones/ listen on a FM radio or move either the computer or router. Added to the fact that its getting more often says to me that whatever is annoying it is either getting worse or happening more often. Heating system firing up more often because its cold?

Then once that fails go for the fannying around with the settings at which point unless you do it in a logical manner you can end up without a clue what is actually effecting the computer.

BTW this fiddle with the settings until it works trouble shooting style is very common in windows alleged helpdesks. It is very wasteful of not only time and resources but also of the good will of the user's you support.

[x213a]

Can anybody explain why SKY would say that about router channels?
I experience router connectivity problems also. Tried swapping channels etc but believe it was down to the cordless mobile phone.

I believe there is a radio station that you can tune into and it picks up what would be interference that could degrade a router's connectivity. I'll have a google and see what I find.

[x213a]

Apparently, 612kHz AM is a critical frequency. If you can tune an AM radio into that and wander about you can detect what may be causing mutual interfence.

Are there any AM radios about nowadays though???

::. Kitz - REIN .:: (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm)

Hope this is of some help:ok:

[mad_jock]

I would hazard a guess that sky use some of the other channels for multi room features on some setup's.

Also your sky box is likely to be sitting next to an xbox 360 which also has some restrictions on which channels you can use because of clashes with the blue tooth that the wireless controllers use.

Its just a guess so may be complete bollocks.

You can get little pocket AM/FM radios from argos/tesco's for under 10 quid. The AM is good for wandering around trying to find your problem (but good luck doing it, just turn everything off and turn things on one by one until you find the problem) but use the FM white noise for finding any arcing problems in various motors,thermostats, heating elements etc.

[Saab Dastard]

MJ,

Your guess is bollocks! :)

Sky multiroom doesn't use WiFi.

The presence or absence of any other possibly interfering devices (bluetooth, cordless phones, gaming consoles, mobile phones, etc. etc.) cannot possibly have any relevance to Sky's claim that "only channels 1, 6 and 11 are suited for Sky Broadband".

SD

[Capetonian]

Someone told me to put silver foil behind the antenna so that more of the radiated power would go in the direction required. I'm not sure if this was a serious suggestion but I couldn't see it doing any harm and it does seem to have improved the reach of my wi-fi marginally, but that may just be the placebo effect, as these things are very fickle anyway.

[mad_jock]

Saab thank you for the clarification on my bollocks ;)

[Keef]

The only reason I can see for Sky saying "only those channels will work" is that someone doesn't fully understand how channel overlap works.

I have to say, when I'm troubleshooting friends' WiFi, I do tend to pick low, middle or high channels (1, 6, 13 or thereabouts), and do a little checking first to see what channels are already in use by nearby strong WiFi signals.

I don't have an easy way to find what else is transmitting on 2.4GHz - an AM radio listening on 600kHz or whatever isn't going to hear a lot up there. It comes down to "look for cordless phone base stations, cellphone parking spots, and such kit."

[toolowtoofast]

I was having a similar problem. I found that my networking was set up so that as soon as it detected another wifi, no matter how weak it was, it would dump the 'excellent' one I was on, and try to connect to the other one.

This happened randomly, and would tell me it was searching, or that my signal strength was low, even if i was standing right next to my router. I have switched the auto function off, and now have no problems at all.

My router is on the floor. Has been left switched on for the last 2.5 years. It has no tinfoil shroud.

[mad_jock]

I have worked it out why sky do it.

As anyone will know who has phoned the sky helpdesk........

1,6,and 13 were the most common answers when they did their exam in IP when working out subnet masks. :p

[Saab Dastard]

Metal shields at either base station or PC can be a mixed blessing.

In theory, a metal shield at the PC antenna on the opposite side to the direction of the desired base station could be beneficial in helping to reduce the strength of unwanted signals - but only from that direction. It wouldn't help with signals from the same direction as the desired base station.

The real problem, though, is that the reflection of the signals coming from the desired base station (and any other extraneous signals) by the metal shield could cause destructive interference at the PC antenna and actually lower the strength of the desired signal!

The best shield for this situation would actually be dense but non-reflective material. Masonry and timber would be better than glass or metal.

Similarly at the base station, you can prevent your signal going in directions away from your PCs, but again using metal could actually cause destructive interference, thus reducing the effective signal.

If you can buy or make a metal "shield" that is tailored to the type of antenna and designed correctly for the wavelength of the wifi signal, that avoids or minimises the destructive interference effect, then that's a different case! Or you might just get lucky and chance upon a "tuned" setup by luck!

One of the biggest problems with desktop PC wifi cards (I know that One9iner has a laptop), is that the expansion slot is at the back of the case, so in most situations the antenna is sandwiched between a wall and the metal PC case - a recipe for poor reception. The simplest solution is to use an add-on aerial extension, replacing the built-in aerial with one that can be located on top of the PC case, or better still, on a convenient shelf away from the PC and monitor.

Unfortunately, that is not possible with laptops (at least for those with built-in wifi adapters, where the aerial is in the screen surround) - although one often does have more flexibility in where they are located. You can get USB wifi adapters with an external antenna, if you don't mind the bulk and appearance.

SD

[green granite]

Or just buy one of these: Compact High Gain Directional Corner Antenna for Wireless Networks : Wireless Network Antenna : Maplin (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=38205)

[Saab Dastard]

Yes - but check that the existing antenna is removable before purchasing!

SD

[Pontius Navigator]

In theory, a metal shield at the PC antenna on the opposite side to the direction of the desired base station could be beneficial in helping to reduce the strength of unwanted signals - but only from that direction. It wouldn't help with signals from the same direction as the desired base station.

The real problem, though, is that the reflection of the signals coming from the desired base station (and any other extraneous signals) by the metal shield could cause destructive interference at the PC antenna and actually lower the strength of the desired signal!

Basically this is aerial theory. A TV array aerial has a line of 'directors' in front of the actual aerial and a large reflector behind the aerial. The aerial itself is a dipole sized to the central freqency band of the transmitted frequencies. The directors are set at wave-length distance to boost the signal and the reflector behind is similarly spaced to reflect the signal back. As SD says, if that interval is exactly wrong then the reflected signal will be 180 deg out of phase and cancel the signal.

For your router 'transmitter' you can have a reflector buy it must be at the correct distance otherwise it will cancel the signal. A program such as netstumbler will allow you to observe the signal/noise ratio as you move the reflector or as you angle the antenna.

[mad_jock]

The best shield for this situation would actually be dense but non-reflective material. Masonry and timber would be better than glass or metal.

As a note if you have a wacking great fish tank it will give issues as well if its between the laptop and router

[Saab Dastard]

Yup, sure will - those guppies sure do absorb radio signals! And as for the electric eels... ;)

SD

[mad_jock]

;) Water

Well known method to use for shielding places you don't want people sniffing EM from.

Also used for shielding all things nuclear that are hot hot hot.

Can't claim the kill on that problem it was the big Russian speaking bloke who debugs in hex that did it. But we were all in the restaurant that was having the problem with its electronic POS waiter units. The 6'x8'x1' fish tank certainly screwed the signal.

[Saab Dastard]

Interestingly, while water is very, very good at absorbing RF, glass is quite good as a reflector / scatterer in its own right - and even better if it has a metal content or coating.

SD