Fatal air accidents; Has anyone else noticed that from time to time...

[steve181]

Someone says how brave & heroic the pilot was to steer the aircraft away from buildings etc before they crashed sparing the lives of others on the ground etc. What a load of rubbish, the pilot avoided the cluster of solid concrete buildings filled with people to crash into an empty field not necessarily to spare the lives of those on the ground but to gives themselves & those on board a better chance of surviving.

I was watching an Air Crash Investigation episode about the Air Midwest Flight 5481 Beechcraft 1900D, they said how heroic the pilot was to steer the aircraft away from directly hitting the hanger full of workers. What the ****? Since when has a concrete hanger acted like cushion?

Does anyone else notice this sort of thing? This is a perfect example of how the media can get carried away.

[VH-XXX]

Like the Indian student pilot who crashed near Moorabbin who saved "thousands of people's lives on the ground" by steering away from a school. Perhaps in India maybe.

[The Green Goblin]

My god pilots are cynics!

Two considerations. Yes, a building is hard and undesirable as a landing destination (unless it's jihad related) but regardless, do you think a Pilot will go "oh well, I am going to die, may as well take as many as I can with me?" Or..... do you think you will be looking to place it down in the least populated area you can find to minimize collateral damage and to give yourself and your passengers the greatest chance of survival?

[training wheels]

Judging by your location I'm assuming a field with sheep close by would be desirable :cool:

And you'd want those sheep to be unshawn so that their fluffy coats cushion the blow. Pity about them bones, though.

But on a serious note, many schools, especially high schools have lots of space surrounding them for their ovals and soccer fields, so if it was after home time and before school time, a school would be high on my priority list of places to land in, if I had an engine failure in the metropolitan area.

[steve181]

Of course you hit the nail on the head with your second option The Green Goblin but the media etc always seem to link the pilots desire to land away from populated areas with it being an act of heroism when all along the pilot was just looking for a clear area free of obstacles to land.

[Fonz121]

Does it really matter?

If the only positive thing to come from someone's death is that their family can consider them a hero than who really cares if that was the real reason or not?

[Hasherucf]

I was reading a gliders logbook recently and it mentioned damage from landing in a flock of sheep. No and its not from NZ :ok:

This thread reminds me of the pilot in Jandakot that was involved in the C404 accident . Channel 7 reported him as a 'Death Pilot' . But if he had a safe landing I am sure he would have been a hero

[j3pipercub]

Steve, you have a lot to learn.

But on a serious note, many schools, especially high schools have lots of space surrounding them for their ovals and soccer fields, so if it was after home time and before school time, a school would be high on my priority list of places to land in, if I had an engine failure in the metropolitan area.

EXACTLY!!! Or a Sports Ground on a weekend...

j3

[steve181]

What do you mean I have a lot to learn, who are you?

[j3pipercub]

I am someone who knows how a CSU works...

I am someone who has a fair bit more experience in this industry than you and I know not to make silly, broad, stereo-typical statements like you have.

I am also someone who has lost a family member who was a pilot. EFATO and he turned it away from a sportsfield that would have been a fantastic forced landing field because it was a Saturday and there were children playing sports on that field. the result was fatal, but at least there were no fatalities on the ground. So is that heroic or not?

So it isn't always

a load of rubbish

As you so eloquently put it.

j3

[eocvictim]

This thread reminds me of the pilot in Jandakot that was involved in the C404 accident . Channel 7 reported him as a 'Death Pilot' . But if he had a safe landing I am sure he would have been a hero

Or if he had of killed everyone. But saved 1000's by not continuing over a populated area.

On a side note, what are people doing about personal protection against potential to be sued in the event of an accident? Is there anything legal that I can have private passengers sign available? I would hate to think that I did everything I could and made the best decisions based on the circumstances only to be sued by some blood thirsty selfish ****.

[steve181]

j3pipercub your a better man than me since you've never made a generalization before, I take my hat off to you.

[The Green Goblin]

And this is why Aussies stereotype Kiwis :ugh:

Sarcasm is a stupid mans wit, tread carefully Steve..........

Sorry to hear J3 :(

[steve181]

You lot are a miserable bunch. Living in Australia can't be all that bad can it? I guess that's easy for me to say living in a country that Australia looks up to & aspires to be like.

[Plow King]

And this thread continues why? :ugh:

[steve181]

^ If your not interested in the thread your time could be better spent watching your Kath & Kim DVD...... 'mate'

[Plow King]

Why? I've got all the entertainment I need right here:

Living in Australia can't be all that bad can it? I guess that's easy for me to say living in a country that Australia looks up to & aspires to be like. :D

Whatever "mate", if it helps you sleep at night..............

[Sykes]

Keep it up mate! You are one funny f**ker :ok:

You've asked some pretty dumb questions on D&G, and your opening comments in this thread are ignorant and insensitive.

When people point that out to you (and some of this has been done politely), you spit the dummy big time.

I did my training at your mom's house & she baked me some brownies.

Go walk into a prop faggot.

Mature comments, mate :ouch:

The thing is, in Oz (and it used to be this way in Enzed) if you act like an idiot, you can expect to be called an idiot!

So, what you've got to ask mate, is "Is it everyone on D&G... or is it me??"

[eternity]

Go somewhere else.

Maybe outside and kick a cat - just don't bring your immature and inexperienced attitude into here.

I agree entirely with j3.

Go get some more flying experience - go get some more life experience - maybe scare the **** out of yourself some evening when the important bits on your aircraft start to fail - and maybe (hopefully not), experience the awful tragedy of having a family member or friend go down in an aircraft.

Maybe steve181, just maybe then you might actually be able to qualify your comments.

You also need to remember that since aviation is a small community, many people reading this forum have had to endure the tragedy of losing a family member or friend in an aircraft accident.
It is a sensitive issue - and maybe one best left untouched by an immature and inexperienced ignoramus like yourself.


MODERATOR - This thread is going nowhere and will probably only upset people. Do us all a favour and close it off please.

Eternity.

[OzExpat]

I think it would be a great shame for this topic to be closed because of toes being stepped on, especially after the first 6 posts which were essentially right on the mark. People die in all sorts of situations and I'm prepared to bet that many of them tried, at the very end, to find a better place to end the chaos. I had a lot of mates who had no such hope in the rugged environment of PNG.

[steve181]

If people want to take a general observation personally then that's their issue, it's impossible to say anything without offending someone ESPECIALLY on these boards.

Some of you guy's (& not just in this thread) have the personality of a stone. :ugh:

Sykes the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask. I stand by those quotes, if someone is being a smart ass why respect them? **** em.

[Socket]

Although it would be nice to think (and a comfort to loved ones) that these unfortunate pilots died in the heroic manner the media described, it is more than probable that the thought of 'oh thats a school' or 'best avoid that particular building full of workers' never crossed their minds. Rather it would be 'wtf and how do i regain control'.

The indian student crashed into a house didnt he, if he had the time to recognise and enough control to avoid a school I reckon he might have tried to avoid a house as well. The 1900D had just stalled on takeoff, I would guess they had zero control over where they were going.

Im fine with ' the pilot valiantly tried to recover control of the aircraft' but all these media hyped heros just belittle the few actual heros we have.

[404 Titan]

There is a difference between a crash caused by loss of control and a crash caused by an engine failure. Loss of control is exactly that, loss of control and everything it entails. With an engine failure though, one usually still has control of their aircraft and to an extent choices about where to put down.

[Sykes]

Keep them coming mate! You're like a fine red wine: gets better with age. :} :} :} Just don't go to vinegar... :bored:

If people want to take a general observation personally then that's their issue, it's impossible to say anything without offending someone ESPECIALLY on these boards.

I agree! :eek: BUT...

Your first post on this thread is LIKELY to offend! If you can't see that, then you really should get out more! :ok: And as I said earlier, it may have been a "general observation" to you, but it is a pretty ignorant and offensive "general observation" to me (and to some others here, obviously).

Some of you guy's (& not just in this thread) have the personality of a stone.

More abuse! Please tell us all how you expect to win us over with this kind of comment???? :suspect:

the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask

I agree! But it's your reaction when people point that out to you that make threads like this amusing.. :} If asking what is a dumb question, most others (including me) would reply with a "D'oh" or "thanks" instead of your incoherent rants. ;)

if someone is being a smart ass why respect them? **** em.

Mate, what you've got to ask yourself is why would ANYONE respect YOU or your questions, when you react the way that you do??

If you can't handle a bit of stick on an anonymous web forum without acting like a 2 year old who's had his lollipop taken away, then maybe you should just bugger off?

[j3pipercub]

anonymous web forum

And on that note.

Steve, no matter what you do and say on here, I will give you one piece of advice. If you intend to continue to post in a similar vein then just make sure you keep your identity anonymous. I know of at least one guy who was rather loud and abrasive on here who after his identity was cracked, found it quite hard to move up the ranks, as you would be very surprised who the owners of some of these Cyber Identities really are.

For example, from a brief perusal of your posts, I know, you are 23 or thereabouts, trained in Christchurch and got your CPL/MECIR in September/October of 2004. You then worked in a non aviation field to pay off some of the flying debt. You stated it would take about 6 months.

Before your current activity on here, you hadn't posted since 2006, and judging by the questions you are asking ie CSU/Slow flight etc, I would suggest that the 6 month hiatus you were anticipating actually took a fair bit longer.

Now aviation being as small as it is, I'm sure with just a few more pieces of the puzzle, someone would recognise who you are...

Not having a go or trying to be a b@st@rd or threatening in any way, just illustrating a point.

j3