Ek B777 F/Os transfer to A380...

[chofuan]

New rumor about fleet transfer of B777 F/O to A380? 2 year or more of service but short for the upgrade. Seat lock of 2 years in the A380.

Keep discovering

[Instant Hooligan]

They're still using the "short time to upgrade" chestnut to fill seats. It'll never happen. Far to many senior guys with far more experience and a short transition to go yet. Remember the short upgrade line the airbus f\o's were fed only to be told they now have to go back to the "short" bus....!!!!
Keep discovering.

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

I think what he was referring to was short on hours to upgrade anytime soon. Meaning, 2+ years and you don't have the hours for upgrade, sent to the 380. Not a shorter process to upgrade if sent to the A380.

[Instant Hooligan]

That makes more sense but still sucks for those forced across!

[sanddude]

Lets face it. With 2 years of service you,re not gonna see a command for quit some time, so its not that big of a deal i guess?:confused:. Extra type might be handy for the exit strategy!

[Thazright]

an FO type rating is about as worthless as your contract you signed in the desert sand. Grow up! why would anyone want to go to the 380 unless their IQ was sub 84 :}

[ruserious]

won't happen, too expensive, the CCQ is designed for Airbus experienced pilots, there is no long course available currently and why would they bother anyway. Do you think AAR is going to authorise an expensive full course up at EADS :}

[Cruiseclimb]

an FO type rating is about as worthless as your contract you signed in the desert sand. Grow up! why would anyone want to go to the 380 unless their IQ was sub 84 http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Wow... you must be an absolute joy to fly with.

[Thazright]

it is immediately apparent that you have had a sense of humour failure :rolleyes:, LOL. I have a picture of a 380 on my wall at home. do you? :p

[Wow... you must be an absolute joy to fly with.] One day I will pass my ppl, then I will take you flying too.. :cool:

[fatbus]

Straight from the 777 office NO fo's going to the 380

[Iver]

A few questions related to FO movement from the A330 to the A380:

How many factory-fresh A380s is EK expected to receive in 2010? What would be the "rough" difference in salary/per-diem/benefits between an A380 FO role and a first year A330 Capt role (just trying to understand the difference)? Is the A380 not an interesting/desirable bid among lower-seniority FOs who would want to fly it and not be senior enough to bid Captain on the A330?

Do you think having an A380 type would be advantageous going forward or not at all useful (unlike a 777 rating) given only a few operators worldwide?

Not trying to be sarcastic, but are there any positives to moving to the A380 FO seat for a few years beyond some cool stories to tell at the airport bar? Are the schedules better? Are the destinations better?

[fatbus]

money is the same on all fleets and the difference in per diem is very little
lifestyle is a big difference- 380 great 330 very poor
new FO should take advantage of the 380 while they can they will never see the LHS unless they stay for 20 years
type rating ? as an FO where are you going to go? KAL ? good luck with that permanent FO career same goes for the 777 or 330. right now the best type rating to have is the 330 if you are looking at contract stuff, im sure the 777 guys will say otherwise but just have a look on line lots of 330 jobs

[Iver]

Thanks for the reply fatbus.

So, if a junior A330 FO takes the jump over to the A380 as an FO, what would be the next step for him/her? If LHS is not achievable for 20 years, would that FO basically sit on the A380 or would there be an incentive to bid the 777 (if a Boeing jump is possible from the Airbus fleet) to get a more attractive rating (assume you already have the A330 type)? Personally I think your 20 year estimate is a bit extreme - I would bet that pilot attrition and the net aircraft orders (i.e., A380s, 777s and A350s replacing older A330/40s and 777s) would probably reduce that 20 year estimate a bit. Still, the wait to upgrade would be a long one.

In the short term, I guess I can see why senior A330 FOs are being sought because they could probably make the jump to Capt after a few years on the SUPER. Well, I guess if you have to sit as FO for many, many years, the A380 wouldn't be a bad choice at all - at least you could avoid the late-night, short hops to India and Pakistan for now (until more arrive)...

[Heritage 1]

Junior FO's going to the 380 makes sense to us but not management. Requirements to transition from 330 to 380 are 2 years at EK and 1500 hours on EK aircraft. Result is, guys being forced to transition that don't want to, and those that do want to, can't.:ugh:

[fatbus]

ok 15 - 20 years for a new hire to see LHS 380, as it sits right now 7+ to go to the 330/777 LHS and 2400( the number of EK pilots now) Capts ahead of you that might want the 380, lets say a 1000, which I think might be a good guess jsut do the math.55 x 10 = 550 Capts total, that means that not all current 330 capt will see the 380 until retirements and before that it will open up to the 777.

I think for a new guy, take the 380 enjoy the lifestyle and take the up grade on the 350 or 777NG

[Fugazi]

The A380 Fleet has an amazing lifestyle. 3 trips a month max. Up from 1 a year ago!!! Loads of days off. No turnarounds. Great cabin crew. I would also doubt that any pilot flying it would not say that it is the most incredible aircraft they have ever flown....bar none!! (F-16's etc excluded!!) The past 18 months has been like working for a different airline. Obviously for F/O's the upgrade policy dictates a return to the A330. To go one month from a 380 roster to the next month a 330 roster would be soul destroying. Hopefully the 330 rosters will become less brutal....Although in all probability they will most likely get even worse :{

[GoreTex]

777 captains will not go on the 380 unless their last name starts with Al.
do you seriously think EK will pay any expat a long transition course because he wants to fly the 380? p-lease

I think the owner of EK need every fil to fill other holes

[mensaboy]

Perhaps a few exceptions in the past generation of guys at Legacy Carriers but USUALLY, it is usually wisest to take the earliest route to upgrade available, because;
1- once you get upgrade, your life changes dramatically for the better, on and off the job
2- you are more marketable should you choose to leave

There are a few things about EK, that make a move as an F/O onto the A380, not the best option. (excluding present rosters and lifestyle)
1- EK doesn't give a darn about seniority
2- EK will alter the rules when cost savings are achieved (ie. 2 years frozen on the A380 could feasibly increase)
3- An experienced F/O on the A380 is a valuable commodity,especially when 'new-to-Airbus' Captains become eligible for it
4- Just because your seniority dictates that you should be the next pilot eligible for Command Upgrade, does not mean that EK will let you slide back to the A332 on schedule.
5- It would cost EK money to allow current and experienced A380 F/O's to upgrade on another type. First, there would be a 6 month RH seat period on the other type. Second, they would have to train another F/O to replace you on the A380 and this would all have to take place in those 6 months plus the 2-3 training months you need for upgrade.
6- Upgrades will not occur from LH seat A380 to RH seat A380

Take the shortest possible route to upgrade is my advice and the A380 will likely result in the longest upgrade timeframe.

[5star]

Goretex,

Hmmm...I still have to meet the first T7 skipper (with the usual 1 or 2 exceptions) who would like to go on the 380.....


I have to agree with the last poster : unless you joined <2 year ago, anyone considering moving from Boeing to 380 needs his head examined.

[GoreTex]

5star,
I flew 777,340 and 380, the 380 is great

[EGGW]

It fly the T7, great ship. But would be happy to fly the Whale anytime, just as long as they get more routes!! Everyone tells me its just like a big 320 :ok:

EGGW

[TurboDAWG]

Can ya'll come up with another name for the A-380 other than "whale".

Whale is reserved for the Boeing B-747. The 747 has been called "Whale" since her introduction in 1970, having this french made A-380 intoduced into servie, what say couple of years ago.. jumping on the "Whale" band wagon is just not right!!!

Stepping off my soap box. :E

TurboD

[cuberoute]

:p It looks more like a nail pointed downward ............ "thumb" !

[LEvans]

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/02/dugong_wideweb__470x307,0.jpg

Slap a couple of wings on that baby and it's an A380.

It's a Dugong!

[ANFA]

How about FAT GIRL???

[Immigrant]

It's a Dugong!

My Vote for Mr.Dugong !! :ok: 5+

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

The Guppie.

[Taylor01]

We were told from the Boeing chief pilot a few weeks ago in recurrent that there are no FO's moving to the 380! unless you have 4 engine airbus time.

[fatbus]

Funny, if you are on the airbus fleet now you can go to the 380 without 4 engine time. So will the same apply when it opens to 777 capts next year? Dont think so. Have a read of the FOM 330 is the base A/C.

[Iver]

Taylor01,

Interesting - I guess EK management doesn't trust the abilities of 777 pilots. Seems to work at Air France - the Captain who flew the first scheduled A380 flight from CDG to JFK was a woman who came directly from the 777 fleet... See her in the FO seat during training:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » F-HPJA (CN: 033) Air France Airbus A380-861 by Yann (Bzh) (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6718367)

I suppose Air France unions make a difference in this case. With EK, it could be a training cost issue - easier to transition from an A340-500 to an A380 with some operating similarities. Sure, Airbus aircraft fly a little different from Boeing aircraft but you would expect experienced pilots to be able to handle it - look at all of the mixed fleets in Europe with pilots transitioning back and forth. Oh well, you can't expect everyone to be rational and logical about these things.

[rather be sailing]

Gents,

It's nothing to do with ability.The Emirates 380 transistion course in use at the moment is Airbus developed only for crews moving from A340-500.This is approved by the GCAA and allows a reduction in course time by 40%-and associated costs.This was an entry into sevice cost saving measure and is unique to EK as they operate the A340-500 which is very close from a crews perspective to the 380.

When Emirates move to a full transistion course then previous type becomes irrevelant but cost constraints may hold that back for a while.

[fatbus]

The only fact in this matter- CCQ 330 to 380 nothing to do with the 340. Those that come from the 777 would have to do the full 330 transtion then the CCQ. EK does not have a full 380 course, not yet anyways!

[trimotor]

maybe things have changed, but one upon a time, Airbus weren't even going to develop one.

[PorkKnuckle]

would be happy to fly the Whale anytime, just as long as they get more routes!!

They have got more routes - there's about 24 of them I believe.

[Visual Procedures]

Boooom tish!

ROFL.. Nice post :)

[zk-dxb]

Can ya'll come up with another name for the A-380 other than "whale".

Blubberbus?

[EK Snorkel]

My vote goes for "fat pig":}

[InnocentBystander]

I like "Skyporker"

Kind'a fits it. ;)

[higherflyer]

380 Nicknames....
How about FAT GIRL???

Is this your way of saying: Fun to ride but you don't want your mates to see you riding one??