Buying a PA28

[Eldash]

Hi, I am looking for a PA28 aircraft to buy and own privately. Does anyone have any advice to give me? I have looked at a PA-28-161 Cadet. Any pointers? Thanks in advanced.
PS! I live in Sweden. DS!

[BackPacker]

The Cadet is the flight training model of the Warrior II. It's got a reduced MTOW, no rear baggage access hatch and misses a set of rear windows, but otherwise performs the same. Both are designated PA28-161.

Why not get an Warrior II instead. Or an Archer (PA28-181). Or, better yet, a more modern design such as a Diamond or a Cirrus? (No doubt IO540 will be around shortly praising the TB-20 too.)

In any case, an aircraft is a hole in the sky in which you throw money. Before you do that, you'd better consider your mission requirements exactly and then select the aircraft suitable for you. But the Cadet was specifically designed for the flight training market, so it's rare to see it in private ownership.

[A and C]

1 Good engine with a history.
2 Spar inpection done in last year or so (EASA 2005-032)
3 MLG legs part number 65490-800 fitted to avoid EASA 2005-035
4 Inspect all steel to alloy joints for corrossion.
5 Stab bearing condition.
6 seat rail condition
7 inspect the condtion of the flap ribs that are riveted to the steel hinge supports

That will do to start!

[Eldash]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Regarding the choice, it is really a matter of budget and the fact that I do not have any specific requirement other than reliable and well maintained also being able to fly 4 people. I have looked at the following planes (I hope I do'nt break any rules by referring to ads in the forum):
Warrior: PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions (http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=12154)
Cadet: Andersson Aircraft - International pre-owned aircraft broker (http://www.anderssonaircraft.com/specifikation.asp?id=295&meny=1) .
The only major issue I have with the Warrior is the age. Should I pay that much of an attention to the age or consider the better instrumentation (GPS, Autopilot etc) on the Warrior as advantage? They have approximately the same total time and engine time.
I would appreciate any further comments.
Thanks

[Justiciar]

I have just re-started flying a very well equipped Warrior which is an ex commercial flying school example. It is fully IFR (except de ice and oxygen of course) and is a very good platform for IMC training. We of course have the IMc rating in the UK to justify the kit :ok:

I don't think airframe hours makes a huge difference; the key thing is that the log books are up to date and it has had its first EASA ARC issued, so that all those expensive items which needed replacing or inspecting/overhauling have been dealt with. To my mind the better the instrumentation the better the value.

[englishal]

Do any Warriors have the capability in terms of W&B to carry 4 people and useful fuel? The only PA28 that do AFAIK are maybe some of the Arrows and the Dakota. Even the 180HP Archers have trouble carrying 4 people unless you are careful with fuel loading.

[hatzflyer]

justiciar you have a p,m from me.

[BackPacker]

Do any Warriors have the capability in terms of W&B to carry 4 people and useful fuel? The only PA28 that do AFAIK are maybe some of the Arrows and the Dakota. Even the 180HP Archers have trouble carrying 4 people unless you are careful with fuel loading.

Both the PA28-161 Cadet & Warrior, and the PA-28-181 Archer cannot take four "normal" adults & full fuel (48 USG). But if your adults are not too porky and you fill to the tabs only (34 USG) it's generally possible to fit four and still stay below MTOW.

34 USG is still about four hours endurance (65%, 100 kt IAS, properly leaned for best economy). Which is a long stretch for the two folks in the back.

The PA28-161s we have all work out to a useful load (zero fuel) of just under 900 lbs. I don't have the data to hand, but I seem to remember the same figure for our PA28-181.

On the other hand - if you can fill all seats and fly with full fuel, your fuel tanks are not large enough.:ok:

[JW411]

I am not sure if this is appropriate on pprune. If not, then let the moderators remove the post.

When I retired from big aeroplane flying, I was persuaded to buy a Warrior II.

Having looked at a lot of them, I bought one from White Waltham which was in very good condition and had been looked after well. I then spent around £13000 putting in a Garmin 430, Garmin OBI, Mode S Transponder, DME, ADF, second altimeter etc.

I knew that I would never get my money back from such an investment but, with the best part of 20,000 hours under my belt, I equipped my aeroplane to a good standard so that it could get me out of trouble rather than me getting it into trouble!

The best equipment in the world will not help you when the cloud base is 200ft and the engine stops!

So, having made such a large investment what do you do next?

My next piece of advice is to treat the inside of your aeroplane with ACF50. That should only cost around £300 but it is worth every penny of that. (I first came across ACF50 when I was doing my walkround on my workday aeroplane and saw this brown "stuff" dripping out of the undercarriage bays - I think they called it Dynotrol in those days).

I love my PA-28. It does not have the excitement of the aircraft that I flew in the RAF but it is kind, easy to fly and we can get to LFAT for the weekend (with reduced fuel) with four of us and my son's wheelchair which goes into the baggage compartment with not a lot to spare.

I shall be very sorry when she goes.

[Cusco]

I love my PA-28. It does not have the excitement of the aircraft that I flew in the RAF but it is kind, easy to fly and we can get to LFAT for the weekend (with reduced fuel) with four of us and my son's wheelchair which goes into the baggage compartment with not a lot to spare.

I shall be very sorry when she goes.



Might be sooner than you think;);)

[QUOTE)FR Doc E9-26200 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-26200.htm)

SUMMARY: We propose to adopt a new airworthiness directive (AD) for
certain Piper Aircraft, Inc. (Piper) PA-28, PA-32, PA-34 and PA-44
series airplanes. This proposed AD would require an inspection of the
control wheel shaft for both the pilot and copilot sides and, if
necessary, replacement of the control wheel shaft. This proposed AD
results from two field reports of incorrectly assembled control wheel
shafts. We are proposing this AD to detect and correct any incorrectly
assembled control wheel shafts. This condition, if left uncorrected,
could lead to separation of the control wheel shaft, resulting in loss
of pitch and roll control.

(c) This AD applies to the following airplane models and serial
numbers that are certificated in any category:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Models Serial Nos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PA-28-140............................. 28-20001 through 28-26946 and 28-
7125001 through 28-7725290.
PA-28-150............................. 28-03; 28-1 through 28-4377; and
28-1760A.
PA-28-160............................. 28-03; 28-1 through 28-4377; and
28-1760A.
PA-28-180............................. 28-03; 28-671 through 28-5859;
and 28-7105001 through 28-
7205318.
PA-28S-160............................ 28-1 through 28-1760 and 28-
1760A.
PA-28S-180............................ 28-671 through 28-5859 and 28-
7105001 through 28-7105234.
PA-28-235............................. 28-10001 through 28-11378; 28-
7110001 through 28-7210023; 28E-
11 and 28-7310001 through 28-
7710089.
PA-28-236............................. 28-7911001 through 28-8611008
and 2811001 through 2811050.
PA-28-151............................. 28-7415001 through 28-7715314.
PA-28-161............................. 2841001 through 2841365; 28-
7716001 through 28-8216300; 28-
8316001 through 28-8616057;
2816001 through 2816109;
2816110 through 2816119; and
2842001 through 2842305.
PA-28-180............................. 28-E13 and 28-7305001 through 28-
7505260.
PA-28-181............................. 28-7690001 through 28-8690056;
28-8690061; 28-8690062; 2890001
through 2890205; 2890206
through 2890231; and 2843001
through 2843672.
PA-28-201T............................ 28-7921001 through 28-7921095.
PA-28R-180............................ 28R-30002 through 28R-31270 and
28R-7130001 through 28R-
7130013.
PA-28R-200............................ 28R-35001 through 28R-35820; 28R-
7135001 through 28R-7135229;
and 28R-7235001 through 28R-
7635545.
[/QUOTE]

Cusco

[JW411]

Cusco:

My aeroplane is on an EASA ARC (public transport as we used to call it).

I have already had that inspection done and one side (the left side) was replaced.

Exactly what is your point?

[Mark1234]

Do any Warriors have the capability in terms of W&B to carry 4 people and useful fuel? The only PA28 that do AFAIK are maybe some of the Arrows and the Dakota. Even the 180HP Archers have trouble carrying 4 people unless you are careful with fuel loading.

Yup, done a 2hr and a smidge (each way) weekend away trip to a winery with 4 POB and 3+hrs fuel, plus a few bags.. in a vanilla -161. 2 were girls, 3rd was a fairly slight bloke, plus me (non slight!), I was a baggage nazi, and yes, I did do a w&b, even pumped some fuel out to be on the safe side. Still plenty for the trip, even got airborne in 40degree heat, AND dragged it's self to 8500ft (eventually). Necessity for cabin temp!

The arrow (PA28R-201 T-tail) I flew was by far the *least* useful for working load. the MTOW rise didn't seem to cover the extra empty weight/fuel reqs. Archer (-181) was the best of the lot, and pretty quick to boot.

[IO540]

ACF50 is good stuff. I had my whole plane done last year. Just have to keep it away from things with open contacts e.g. relays, and autopilot servos, and of course the brakes :)

Cost about £300.