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Tamazi
1st Nov 2009, 14:58
My son flew to Sofia three weeks ago with Easyjet. He reported an excellent flight, spotless aircraft with a pleasant and helpful cabin crew. Yesterday he returned with BA from Istanbul. He reported an ancient, scruffy old 767 (ex American - the old signs still in evidence) on which some items were badly worn and not working, such as lights. Food was terrible (Turkish supplier). The cabin staff, far from being the pleasant, slick type he & I are used to, were grumpy and generally unpleasant. (He also said they were in the main "over the hill" but I won't comment on that!) Many items advertised unavailable and altogether the whole experience was "not good". Where is BA going wrong?
I have a long haul on BA coming up in four weeks with another in late January. I will be keeping my eyes wide open. It might mean a change of allegiance.

fernytickles
1st Nov 2009, 15:21
He also said they were in the main "over the hill"

Aside from your other concerns, the CC are not there for your son's eye candy. Would he have complained if they were all male, as I have experienced on an AF flight? That was absolutely fine by me - much better to look at than wimmen....

Either way, the CC's professionalism is what matters, not their age/looks.

Tamazi
1st Nov 2009, 15:53
You are totally correct and that is why I did say I would not comment on that particular remark he made. He is not one to cast an eye on candy be it male or female and that was not what lay behind his comment. The state of the aircraft was his main issue.

Rainboe
1st Nov 2009, 17:36
Well on an Easy flight I had, the chief was a large middle aged male apparently impersonating a female, with what sounded like an artificially raised voice imitating how a female talks. Whatever would your son have said? I know we are supposed to find all that OK now, but many of the passengers around me were reacting unfavorably to it.

So you can tell the state of an aeroplane by how fresh the cabin furnishings are? Does BA have 'ex American' 767s? They all have RB211 engines- are there any ex American ones?

Tamazi
1st Nov 2009, 17:54
No idea Rainboe. Don't let us get carried away by the comment about age. That was not the issue nor the reason for the posting. Someone out there may eventually read this and have some knowledge of BA's scruffier machines. Till then, in the words of the dragons, I'm out.

Mr @ Spotty M
1st Nov 2009, 20:32
Rainboe and l both know that your son did not fly on an ex American B767 if it was in BA colours, other than it was made in the USA.:ugh:

TSR2
1st Nov 2009, 21:00
According to the CAA, everyone of BA's B767-336 aircraft were bought new from Boeing. They do not have any ex AA aircraft registered.

Malone
2nd Nov 2009, 08:45
I too thought that BA's 767's were all bought new from Boeing.
Perhaps we have here another person jumping on the "let's slag off BA without getting our facts right" bandwagon!!
:}

GwynM
2nd Nov 2009, 09:45
No need to be harsh to a new poster:=

Is it possible it was a codeshare or oneworld alliance aircraft, so it could appear to be a BA booking but operated by someone else? Not everyone is experienced enough in flying to know what carrier you are on, and if your ticket says BA, then you would assume it was a BA flight.

Tamazi
2nd Nov 2009, 09:46
Perfectly happy to accept that as I have no knowledge of these things. I regret ever posting in the first place as there appears to be nobody able to accept the facts as written. I listened to his story. There was old signage on the aircraft seemingly indicating it had been used in the US marketplace. The aircraft was "scruffy & extremely tatty in every way". That is as near a quote as I can go. As there appears to be no response other than to criticise my original posting, I shall withdraw. Clearly I should not have posted here in the first instance. Over and OUT!

Tamazi
2nd Nov 2009, 09:49
GwynM, thank you for that comment. Appreciated.

GwynM
2nd Nov 2009, 09:52
I was flamed early on in my Pprune days for having the temerity to ask why certain people at ABZ were allowed to bypass the security system (I think it was shortly after 11th September or 11/9). It put me off posting for a while, but I returned:)

Tamazi
2nd Nov 2009, 10:05
I have been an avid follower of the entire forum for some time but have not had the urge to post, largely because my expertise lies in other fields and I know my limitations. I have however, frequently been amazed by the totally uncalled for brittle replies which are quite unfairly levelled at many posters. In the main they seem to come from flight deck crews. Anyhow, as said above, I know now to keep my comments to myself. Their mucky aircraft can stay mucky.

ConstantFlyer
2nd Nov 2009, 10:05
Tamazi

Thanks for making your original post. I too was sorry to see some of the picky responses you got. Please ignore them and persevere with being a PPRuNer, as there are a lot of better-understanding posters on here too.

Your original post highlighted the disparity in the passenger experience your son had between easyJet and British Airways. For me that is a good example of the way our perceptions and expectations are challenged. Another time, his experience may be different. Hope he enjoyed his time in Bulgaria and Turkey.

Tamazi
2nd Nov 2009, 10:25
Your comments are much appreciated. I won't go away but this thread is closed for me. My son is not a young spotty faced know nothing. He is a middle aged, highly successful business man with a lot of miles under his belt and I know - what others don't - that any comments he may make about any topic, are well founded. I belong to several international forums and this is not the only one to have it's share of snipers ready to shoot everyone out of the sky. Tks again.

Ancient Observer
2nd Nov 2009, 14:48
The fact remains that BA is using far too many old planes. The mechanical and elec. bits will be fine, but the passenger experience can be awful.
BA just have not invested/re-invested in its fleet.

As to folk making sniping comments - you can ignore them. Rainboe is normally interesting, but as he last flew a plane with the Wright Brothers, he can be ignored.

Avman
2nd Nov 2009, 15:13
Is it possible it was a codeshare or oneworld alliance aircraft, so it could appear to be a BA booking but operated by someone else?

As far as I can see, from IST, the answer is no.

There are no 3rd party B767s flying for BA in BA cols.

Is it possible that the gentleman got his a/c type wrong?

BA do have some 2nd hand B737s, although none of them is ex American Airlines.

pax britanica
2nd Nov 2009, 15:17
Interesting initial comment and responses.

I flew BA to Bordeaux last week A319 out 737-400 back both were appallingly tatty inside and the 73 was pretty shabby on the outside but I like to think with BA that’s just cosmetic and they are maintained to the same standards as years back, also I know the 73s days are numbered .
The point for pax though is they are entitled to a clean interior and one that looks like it has been deep cleaned in living memory .I do not mean spotless but I do think this is a failing on BAs part that does rather let them down. Cabin service including meal excellent on way out less good but perfectly acceptable on way back -All women out all men back by the way.
Being a regular traveller to la Belle France the Ryanair or BA comparison often comes to my mind but I always thus far have resolved it in favour of BA and BA providing a flight with grubby shabby cabins doesn’t really help and yet can hardly be that costly.
I like to think I can still trust BA on the operations and maintenance side of things. With our friends from across the Irish Sea I just think that if corporate ethos extends to shall we say a less than transparent approach on their fares and commercial policies driven by their cavalier CEO then I find it hard to imagine that will not in some way translate to the less visible side of an airline ie operations and maintenance. So I find it difficult to trust Ryanair because of their commercial activities it is hard to see why I should trust them on the operational side (or to be frank with their huge 'reported' profits on the financial side either.) . Again just an observation

Tamazi
2nd Nov 2009, 18:18
Avman, as said before, I'm taking this no further but, I have just confirmed it was a 767. He thinks but is not sure, that it was Series 4. Don't pick up on that if it makes no sense as I repeat, he is "not sure".

Avman
2nd Nov 2009, 19:56
It's up to you Tamazi, but if you give me the exact date and approx time of departure (I don't even need the flight number), I have the means to confirm which a/c operated the flight (be it BA or any other carrier).

Persimmon
2nd Nov 2009, 21:51
From the initial message, it looks like the flight concerned was on Saturday 31October, in which case it was G-BNWA and this has been with BA from new - April 1990. I have flown this aircraft many times to LCA and cannot think of any notices, signs etc that might lead one to believe that it was an ex American aircraft. Granted, it is a bit tired but its almost 20 years old!

Capetonian
2nd Nov 2009, 21:58
I went on a business trip to Athens recently. My colleague flew on BA, whom I refuse to fly on, and I went on easyJet. When we met up he commented, unsolicited, on how tired and tatty the cabin was, and how disgruntled and surly the cabin attendants were. I appreciate that these are not easy times for BA, least of all for their cabin staff, but they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot.

I have never been on an easyJet flight where the cabin was anything approaching 'tired and tatty'. Sometimes a little untidy due to the fast turnarounds, but nothing more than superficial.

purplehelmet
2nd Nov 2009, 23:11
tamazi dont go! none of us would ever gain knowledge if we didnt ask questions, dont worry about the smart arsed :mad: on here, luckily there are plenty of willing posters to help and share without shooting people down:ok:. mean while i cant see too many carriers spending a lot of money on interior revamps in the current climate especially at ba. sorry sign of the times it seems.:{

redsnail
3rd Nov 2009, 07:17
Perhaps the notices were on the Atlas containers or the food cart used by the flight attendants? :)

boardingpass
3rd Nov 2009, 07:51
Perhaps the notices were on the Atlas containers or the food cart used by the flight attendants.

In my company we have lovely new planes but the Atlas boxes show the names of many random old airlines and competitors. If pax can sometimes think that the plane is an ex-Air-Zimbabwe plane, this is really bad. No brand-manager would allow to have all these foreign airlines on display in our (open) galleys. Save a few pennies on old Atlas boxes, but spend millions on branding only to have it undermined. :ugh:

Tamazi
3rd Nov 2009, 08:56
In the loo as I understand.

ManAtTheBack
5th Nov 2009, 14:34
I have travelled on BA 767s to IST and can confirm that the notices abount not smoking in the toilet refer to "federal" laws.

Also, the aircraft were, in my opinion, shabby. However, in my case, the staff were friendly.

Seat62K
6th Nov 2009, 06:42
Somewhat off topic, I know, but for the record US-registered 767s did fly in BA colours at one point. These were US Air aircraft and flew with US Air cabin crew in BA uniforms, if I remember correctly.

Final 3 Greens
6th Nov 2009, 09:33
Seat62K

Good memory!

767-200s from LGW, IIRC.

WHBM
6th Nov 2009, 14:09
I am old enough to remember paxing on the last of the BA BAC One-Elevens in their final weeks of service, operating out of Birmingham. I think this was in 1991 and the aircraft had been built in 1968.

The interiors were totally clean, undamaged and up to date right to the end. In fact they were spotless. BA did sell them on, so it was not as if it was all wasted. But we commented at the time on how well they maintained their standards to the end on their fleet.

The fact remains that BA is using far too many old planes. The mechanical and elec. bits will be fine, but the passenger experience can be awful. BA just have not invested/re-invested in its fleet
It really is stretching things to believe that the same airframe engineers and fitters, at the same maintenance base, and with parts availability out of the same stores, will be so painstaking over the mech/elec components, and just let the cabin items go hang. In any event we hear again and again of failed lights, which are surely electrics ? Age of the airframe is nothing to do with it. How you keep it up and presentable is.

I guess it's all part of the Willie Walsh "let's wear the BA brand down so everyone will go with my old mate Mikey at Ryanair, because it's no worse, and then one day Mikey will see me all right" campaign.

FHA
6th Nov 2009, 22:58
.....or maybe the cabin spares aren't kept in stock any more, at all manned bases, because it costs a fortune to hold them (which few airlines can afford these days).
Maybe the cabin defects are entered in the techlog as level 2 deferrals or as level 1's iaw the MEL where applicable. Trust me, it's a lot more hassle to defer cabin defects than it is to actually fix them!