ATPL AIR LAW questions

[jenaby36]

1. You have completed a day and night proficiency check within the last 5 and 11 months respectively.
You have completed 6 hours of flying within the last 85 days including 1 take off and 1 landing.
What extra flying must you complete before acting as PIC on an RPT flight?


2. What type of operations must be under the IFR?
A) All RPT
B) ALL rpt at night
C) Overwater flights


3. What additional requirements apply to giving conversion training under the ATPL?

A) Need a special approval from CASA
B) No further requirements apply

[tmpffisch]

CAO 40.1.5 for Question 1, CAO 82.3 for Question 2, CAR 5.21 for Question 3.

Did you attempt the questions and get them wrong, if so, what'd you choose and why? If you haven't tried answering them, why not?

[jenaby36]

Yes I attempted these questions and was wrong. My answers were:

1. 2 more take offs and landings are required in order to satisfy CAR 5.170

2. I answered A. CAO 82.3 is not very clear!

3. I answered A. According to my teacher (Len Sales) the answer is B.

[tmpffisch]

Do you have the correct answer for question 1? If so, work backwards from it to find the reference in the CAO. As the question doesn't have any info on recency for the past 35 days, you'd have to base your answer off which questions are available.

For question 2, remember that there are certain instances where RPT can fly VFR during the day. Have a look at 7.2.1 in 82.3. 7.3 in the same section says it needs to be by day.

My belief was that A is correct too. ATPL's can do conversion training without holding an instructor rating, but need CASA approval. CAR 5.21 is all about the approval.

[jenaby36]

Ok cool, thanks for your help

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I'm not playing silly buggers, I really am keen to get some interpretation on this.

What do you PPRuNers think about CAO48.1 subpara 3.5 and the distinction between turbo-jet (a) and 'other types' (b)?

An operator shall not roster a pilot for a tour of duty in excess of:
(a) 16 hours for turbo-jet type aircraft; and
(b) 18 hours in other types of aircraft, except where specifically varied by CASA.

Seeing that this is not a mechano-technical Order do you think that the Draftera are they referring to turbo-fan aircraft (i.e. A320, B747 and the vast majority of other airliners with high by-pass ratios) in the same way as proper turbo-jets (Concordes and Comets are about the only semi-applicable turbo-jets I can come up with)?

FRQ CB

[southerner]

Ok i'll give it a go, hope i understand what your asking here.

I remember reading about this somewhere recently as i've recently passed the atpl exam, but cant easily find it now. I'm pretty sure turbo-jet is basically specifiying anything without a prop, and other type includes turbo-prop and piston aircraft.

Anyone have a text-book answer?

[kalavo]

I'm not playing silly buggers, I really am keen to get some interpretation on this.

What do you PPRuNers think about CAO48.1 subpara 3.5 and the distinction between turbo-jet (a) and 'other types' (b)?

Quote:
An operator shall not roster a pilot for a tour of duty in excess of:
(a) 16 hours for turbo-jet type aircraft; and
(b) 18 hours in other types of aircraft, except where specifically varied by CASA.
Seeing that this is not a mechano-technical Order do you think that the Draftera are they referring to turbo-fan aircraft (i.e. A320, B747 and the vast majority of other airliners with high by-pass ratios) in the same way as proper turbo-jets (Concordes and Comets are about the only semi-applicable turbo-jets I can come up with)?

FRQ CB

Would need to take a closer look, but can only remember one CAO that refers to turboprop, turbojet and turbofan, the rest only seem to differentiate between turboprop and turbojet. The one exception I can think of with all three is CAO 43.1 which has this to say...

General principles of propulsion by jet reaction including principle of operation and basic arrangement of the various types of turbo-prop, turbo-jet and turbo-fan (by-pass) turbo-jet engines.

...given they're calling them turbo-fan turbo-jet engines, I would say it would be safe to assume turbo-jet type aircraft includes the high bypass aircraft.

Definitions in the CARs includes this...
jet-propelled aircraft includes an aircraft that is propelled by one or
more engines of the following kinds, namely, turbofan engines, turbojet
engines, unducted fan engines or rocket engines, but does not include an
aircraft that is propelled solely by conventional propeller engines.

...point is probably moot anyway given that the vast majority of operators (especially when talking about turboprops and bigger) operate under an exemption to CAO48.1

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Before reading click here for some sweet P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyQ1znMc3og)PRuNe background music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyQ1znMc3og).

Yeah. I'm going to assume that they are using the word turbo-jet in the colloqial sense as in "big ol' jet airliner, don't carry me too far away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyQ1znMc3og)" because despite the dispensations (which are never in the exam) I feel pretty safe assuming that we're not looking at flight and duty issues of Comet and/or Concorde crews (the true turbo-jets).

Plus, if I miss out by one question now I've got a way to introduce some ambiguity with CASA sufficient for a rejigging of my score... or I could just gey the hell off of PPRuNe and study some more.

FRQ CB

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Hmmm last to post and next to post. I may only be asking myself this question however after reading CAR 5.105 (what a CPL may do) and CAO 40.1.5 can anybody answer the following:

Can the holder of an ATPL who has not flown a PA31 Piper Chieftain (twin-piston requiring only one pilot) for more than 70 days conduct an RPT flight in said type of aircraft as PIC?

Can the holder of a CPL in the same position conduct this flight as PIC?

Thanks in advance,

FRQ CB

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Whoa whoa whoa. One at a time folks. Take a number and wait your turn to speak.

FRQ CB

[JCJ]

I'll give this a go...... just studying Air Law now.:suspect:

Can the holder of an ATPL who has not flown a PA31 Piper Chieftain (twin-piston requiring only one pilot) for more than 70 days conduct an RPT flight in said type of aircraft as PIC?

No. CAO 40.1.5/11.2 unless they have flown "type" in last 70 days

Can the holder of a CPL in the same position conduct this flight as PIC?

Yes if endorsed on type, and has flown type in last 90 days CAR 5.105 1a and CAR 5.109 1

The scenario seems strange.