"B cat" equates to CRA in new money, reference required.

[back end o' the bus]

Hi, Apologies this is not the most interesting of threads to start, but I need to find a reference that recognises that a previous "B cat" qual is now the equivalent of CR(A) or Above Average.
Hoping that someone with a decent memory can dig up an old GASO, GTO or Staneval reference from a few years ago....

Thanks again

Ps "Big boy did it an ran away!":ok:

[BEagle]

Yes, when the traditional and well-proven Cat scheme was needlessly fiddled with......:hmm:

D Cat = LCR
C Cat = CR
B Cat = CR(A)
A Cat = CR(S)

I'm not sure whether CR(S) still exists?

When I applied for my ATPL, the CAA rang me to say that my documents didn't include the words 'Combat Ready'. Fortunately I was able to explain to them that CR(S) and CR(A) were higher qualifications, so hopefully no-one else suffered any delays to their licence issue as a result!

[flipster]

It is highly likely that you cannot truly 'read-across' between the 2 systems because there are far less academic training opportunites in today's world. However, the operational skills and experience of current mil aircrew far outstrip past levels. Today's boys and girls may not have as much experience and practice to 'finesse' an asymmetric NDB-to-circle in a snowy North American airport but I would trust them with my life if going to some god-forsaken LZ in Helmand.

Its all about perspective and I am sure that today's crews are every bit as talented and dedicated as we once were.

[isaneng]

Hmmm....

Dedicated, yes. Talented, probably. As well trained, doubt it. Exposed to the variety of operations, locations and climates, nope.

The full range of Cats still exists, including NCR for 'E' Cat (fortunately rare). Difficult to equate them to the old Cat system, in that times and standards have changed, they can only really be validated within current levels of performance.

[Daf Hucker]

Not all stations/sqn are using the full range of CR status. Some units only award CR.

[No Vote Joe]

Yes, when the traditional and well-proven Cat scheme was needlessly fiddled with......:hmm:

D Cat = LCR
C Cat = CR
B Cat = CR(A)
A Cat = CR(S)

I'm not sure whether CR(S) still exists?

When I applied for my ATPL, the CAA rang me to say that my documents didn't include the words 'Combat Ready'. Fortunately I was able to explain to them that CR(S) and CR(A) were higher qualifications, so hopefully no-one else suffered any delays to their licence issue as a result!

That's exactly how the SAR Bouys do it, and it was a straight read across when they were forced to abandon the old Cat system. And by the way, I think they've got several CR(S) peeps at the mo.

[The Old Fat One]

I'm making an assumption here (always a dodgy thing to do) but is perhaps BEOTB seeking to support some form of formal claim with a formal reference?

If so, it might be a struggle, because I seem to recall cat systems falling outside all the admin manuals, QRs etc. I think (and I am by know means sure) that they were used purely on the operational side of things and those involved in the reporting, assessment, promotion etc of aircrew.

If this seems a narrow/semantic distinction, to place it into context, I knew of a Flight Sergeant who was refused re-enagement on the grounds that he was not a B Cat and therefore not above average. He contested the ruling on the grounds that the connection between B cats and above average was arbitary and not supported in the reporting system and he was successful.

That was before the old Cat system was demolished in the kipper fleet (but not elsewhere) and, as seen from the posts above, different fleets have gone different ways. As terms and conditions apply to all aircrew, it is hard to imagine how an aircraft specfic category system can been used generically to validate comparable performance across a branch.

Furthermore, despite the resistance and insistance of some, there was never a formal connection between Cats and what went in an ACR. I wrote up many a CR as above average, if that is what I deemed them to be.

BEOTB, I would have thought your ACRs (all of which you are legally entitledto copies of) your 5000 series and your log book would have provided you all the evidence you would need.

BTW, all GASOs in the Nimrod Fleet used to spell out what Categorys meant under the Crew Qualification/Authorisation sections. You need to find a set of GASOs from the eighties - I don't know where these would be archived.

Sorry for the long and waffling post - hope it helps.

[isaneng]

Herc GASOs did the same, and after the recent reintroduction of a Cat scheme we now have paperwork to back it up. I'll have a look on monday and get back, although I appreciate it will be the current definition and thus may not be useful. The loss of our independent examining wing, and their incorporation onto squadron strength, always made me wonder if subsequent results could have the totally detached, impartial consideration on merit.

[maximo ping]

Hmm, Staneval may now answer to OC Ops rather than Gp (not necessarily ideal I grant you in terms of independence), but I don't think they're on Sqn strength yet?

[Dan Winterland]

No mention of the Provisional CRA assessment. I was often told I was operating to a CRA(P) standard!

[isaneng]

Apologies M P, my post was unclear. Yes, STANEVAL are still independent, but our training flight used to be part of the OCU and therefore independent as well. When they were returned to the squadrons they were supposed to maintain a degree of seperation, to oversee training and categorisation, but they soon became absorbed into the general workforce and lost their identity. Great to have their experience back on the line, but my thoughts about their effectiveness remain as stated.

[ScufferEng]

Hey guys you have missed out some of the other CATS:

very high average = C+
extremely high average=C++
Outstandingly very high average=C+++/B-

And not forgetting CR(A)(P) = provisional B cat.:ok:

[PFMG]

Not exactly the reference you were looking for perhaps but I have both in my log book - RAF form 1767.

From 1994 - 18Gp B cat

then

From 1999 - 11/18Gp CR(A).

At the time the standard was identical although with all things of that ilk very subjective and personality driven.

By the way, the '94 B Cat was a "Spanners" one and therefore counted as an effective 'A' :}

[500days2do]

Cat systems are a fine idea..but like all systems open to abuse.

The Lyneham A Cat was always an abuse in my eyes...those who achieved it whilst never venturing east of Akrotiri....aswell as those peeps who were CR(S) but unable to achieve an operational tour...even to MPA !!!

5d2d

[[email protected]]

When SAR was subsumed into 2Gp, they tried to make us use the ME cat system where everyone was CR - fortunately the SARf Cdr said no and we have retained the CR, CR(A) and CR(S) system - it is an excellent tool for supervision and gives people the incentive to put the work in on their Cats - if you are CR(A) or (S), everyone knows that you have earned it and deserved it without having to read your cat report to find out how good or bad your last check was.