New York Canarsie 13L

[BITE System]

I have recently done some training in the simulator for the New York canarsie NPA runway 13L. During the training I was told to fly the approach like a NPA with a constant rate of descent, this would mean (for those who know the approach) that for runway 13L you would maintain 1500 feet (on the 041 radial) until 1.3 nm past canarsie then you would start your constant rate of descent to runway 13lL This might work if weather conditions are good but if weather conditions are marginal……..
.
My question….as this is not a conventional NPA and you must have the lead in lights to continue the approach, should you not fly the approach the old style and descend to your MDA of 850, then follow the lead in lights until you are on the VASI?

[stiffwing]

Yes, I would do it the "old" way, too.
The company policy where I work is to do a constant rate of descent profile for all NPA's, with the exception of one... this one!

[Waterskier]

I fly the CRI 13L approach quite often @ JFK. If the weather is nice, our FMC has us cross the MAP (DMYHL) at 1220 and results in a 3 degree path all the way to runway 13L.

However minimums are 800 so if ceiling is between 800 and 1220, we cross DMYHL at 800 feet then fly level til we intercept a 3 degree slope.

[LeadSled]

Guys,
I endorse Stiffwing's comments, if you want to get in when it's really on minima, in those kinds of conditions, cloud isn't homogeneous, the base is usually ragged. Do be careful for the rules that relate directly to the aeroplane/company, this could be limiting.
Tootle pip!!

PS: and ah bin flyn there since before JFK got a mention.

[BITE System]

I would also elect to fly it the old fashioned way when the weather is not so good, seems my company are training us the good weather option.

My calculations are similar, I have 1210 feet over DMYHL when using the constant descent rate method.

If you canarsie experienced chaps have any additional suggestions/helpful hints on conducting this approach please share them with us.

[stiffwing]

660' over the racecourse (aqueduct)
440' over the Hotel (you'll know which one)!
Fight the inclination to get low around the corner.. Displaced threshold with Approach lighting continuing through the "normal" threshold are , initially, a little confusing / offputting.
Due to LA Guardia airspace, ATC will utilise this NPA even if the weather is around the minima... Southeasterlies = summer PM = hazy. All good fun
(Like anything, much easier the second time around)

[LeadSled]

Bite System,
When the weather is crook, low and slow, don't ever rush any approach, particularly not this one. When the weather is good, practice like it was the bad day. The same profile/speed each time.
The turn onto 13R was even "more fun", but a long time ago I did my last one of those, it was a G-reg B707-320C in the '70s.
Tootle pip!!

[Intruder]

I've flown the Canarsie approach a couple times to minimums. Make sure you're not high at CRI or DMYHL. Ideally, hit DMYHL AT 800' in a stable descent. Don't go below 400' until you have the VASI in sight. Don't land long -- there's a displaced threshold.

[peacock1]

....and always be aware that ATC may require a late change to 13R "to avoid a go - around"
I've done the Canarsie twice as PF, and both times we got the rwy change!:ok:

[marc-h]

Im a cpt on 747-400 flying for one of the european majors - as we fly worldwide it means that except for the homebase - it might be that sometimes You have not flown a certain destination for quite a while.
It has both to argue for ; as You would prepare yourself more for an airport , like JFK- so instead the routine/experience You would balance this with more preparation.
I did the canarsie-approach only in the simulator ; and am gratefull for that.. ( night , n-.1 .. all for the purpose of training - ) .
Never flown it for real - but the 747 needs a stable rate of descent - so leaving the MDA at the last possible moment is not a desired option for me ( and in principle against the airline's procedures).
It seems to me that the canarsie 13L at JFK is not fit for all types of aircraft-
I flew into JFK several times now.. and I feel it still is a certain challenge-
if only because I started my early years as a beginning pilot in the south , ( of the US ) .

[Willit Run]

From my experience, at DHMYL, start a 300' foot/min decent, follow the lead in lights, and it will take you right where you want to be. Flown it in a classic and -400.