Police ASU jobs adverts in FI

[SECRET SERVICE]

Hello fellow Ppruners

I've just been shopping and located todays (26-10-09) Flight International and noticed there were 2 helicopter flying jobs advertised within the police
aviation sector. Therefore, I thought I'd create a thread to let you all know the following information:

1) Nothern Island Police Service are looking to recruit a line pilot within their police ASU flying either an EC134/EC145.

2) The West Midlands Police are also looking to recruit a line pilot within their police ASU on the EC135.

Hope this gives you all the "heads up" and wish you well. Wished I could apply....nevermind!!!!

All the best

SS :ok:

[Droopy]

RUC as was/PSNI pay has always been on the low side.

[Brilliant Stuff]

PSNI are planning on getting a 145 they haven't got one yet. There were also thinking of getting a 365 looks like they made their mind up.

Speaking of which the Devon&Cornwall is 30% completed.

[206Fan]

Is the 145 replacing the 135 or will both helicopters be working together?

I noticed they have a 355 floating around here aswel as the 135 some days!

[happysod1412]

There keeping the 135 aswell as getting a 145 too!

[Blind Bob]

I believe the 355 is on contract from Veritair Aviation, covering the gap until the PSNI receive their new machine.

[MightyGem]

Looks like the PSNI are going direct employed as PremiAir currently supply the pilots. Salary seems abit low for direct employed. I wouldn't get out of bed for that. :) Still, they will probably be looking for 4 or 5, I would think.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Low well low and this is without the living expenses and all this for a raaaaaather rough place.

There will be a couple of extra jobs becoming available over the next 6 months. I recently have been told.

[serf]

Any catholic females applying?

[NWSRG]

Slight aside, but a local yoof was arrested here last week for endangering said PSNI machine...the use of a laser to 'dazzle' the pilots.

Not sure how they identified the guilty party though...BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Teenager bailed over laser attack (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8321626.stm)

The EC135 is used extensively...a common site over Belfast...once upon a time I counted a total of 6 Lynxes and Gazelles over West Belfast at the same time...the EC135 is all we get now! Shouldn't grumble...:}

[misbourne]

Unless your E-Military is there any point applying ?

I understand that the Met were advertising recently and know of 3 pilots all with in excess of 4000 hours (On shore)and instrument ratings some with a great deal of HEMS experience who didnt even get an interview

Do you have to be able to walk on water to get a look in on these jobs, or are they avaliable to us self improvers

[windowseatplease]

I think it's more who you know, or what unit/squadron you were in.

[windowseatplease]

Re: NI job requirements


· Demonstrable flying experience in operations above 5,000 feet above ground level (agl).
Err, Why???

[SilsoeSid]

Unless your E-Military is there any point applying ?

I understand that the Met were advertising recently and know of 3 pilots all with in excess of 4000 hours (On shore)and instrument ratings some with a great deal of HEMS experience who didnt even get an interview

Do you have to be able to walk on water to get a look in on these jobs, or are they avaliable to us self improvers

I think it's more who you know, or what unit/squadron you were in.

Ignorance works both ways in this world and this subject is talked about plenty enough here on Pprune.

I don't know about the score at PSNI, but at W.Mids the line pilot distribution is presently 50/50 civ/ex-mil and could soon be 70/25 in favour of the non ex-mil, so best buy a pipe.

Insurance I believe dictates the minimum requirements and just like any other job, if you don't have these minima then it is unlikely that you will be offered it. In addition, again just like any other job, even if you do meet the basic requirements or exceed them it doesn't necessarily mean that you will automatically get an interview.

One word of advice, if you are prepared to listen, would be to visit some units, especially the ones you might like to work at...I am surprised that people apply for jobs at places they have never been to. The first time that some people visit the unit is the day of the interview itself and only then because the interview is being held there!


There are plenty of 'self improvers' in the pilot seats of police helicopters here and around the world, it's simply that they got on with it and didn't sit around complaining about how hard done by they are and how much the industry owes them! When one leaves the mil, there is no 'resettlement package' for the aviation world, job offers don't just simply land on the doormat and it's a big realisation that you are now simply another pilot out there looking for a job. Most of what you had done has no relevance to the outside world. When it comes down to it, you still have to go out there and get on with it.

These are the people that I am proud to say are my colleagues and friends no matter where their flying career started!

[SilsoeSid]

Re: NI job requirements

Demonstrable flying experience in operations above 5,000 feet above ground level (agl).
Err, Why???


Leftovers from a fixed wing job description perhaps.


I'm surprised you didn't pick up on;

500 hours twin turbine or 1000 hours single turbine helicopter
50 hours flight time with sole reference to instruments

[Helipilot1982]

Can someone please confirm what is meant by;

"Relevent Onshore Experience"

Do they mean - prior Police experience, just plain onshore flying experience ( eg instructing, charter, sight seeing, photo etc), low level operation experience (eg pipeline, electricity board, military etc) ?

I fly Offshore and would like to fly for the Police, HEMS but i am confused with what they mean by this. Can I simply just fly 500 hrs over land to meet this requirement regardless of what task I was carrying out or are they looking for specific experience?

Thanks HP 1982

[SilsoeSid]

I guess that's one of those questions that can only be answered with...

...If you have to ask what it is, you haven't got it!
;)

[ForceTrim]

· Demonstrable flying experience in operations above 5,000 feet above ground level (agl).

Err, Why???
Due to regular high level ops up to FL100..:cool:

[Helinut]

The low salaries for the PSNI job are probably to do with internal comparisons between these jobs and similar jobs within PSNI aviation.

Those who want to live in NI are a select bunch. It would not suit many. However, they only need to find a few pilots.

[Sulley]

Hp1982 unfortunately that will depend on which unit !
The reason is historically all Police HEMS were ex millitary and as such the requirements were set by them.If you consider the average requirements for this type of flying then it is still quite difficult to obtain them if you're a civvy trained pilot.Specifically the twin time and the night time.It is however possible if you have a north sea background,but I would suggest that a purely north sea background (flying a helicopter like a plane) isn't wholly appropriate either.Hence a requirement for some form of on shore experience.What actually counts may well as I suggested depend on the interpretation of the unit.Best bet ask the chief pilot of the unit you're looking at.

[Fortyodd2]

"future manning problems"

Well you won't get a job with any police force using words like "Manning"! If you want to get past the interview the correct term is "Staffing" :yuk::yuk::yuk:

[HillerBee]

The ad says £45,000 + benefits. It might be worth the effort, it beats the 'dole' and as I understand there are a lot of unemployed pilots at the moment.

[MightyGem]

The reason is historically all Police HEMS were ex millitary
I'm pretty sure that that has never been the case. Granted the majority of Police pilots are ex military(approx 75%), but, it's not a given that an ex mil guy will get the job, as I'm sure Silsoe Sid could tell you. The advantage that the ex mil have is that they are a known quantity in terms of training and experience.

· Demonstrable flying experience in operations above 5,000 feet above ground level (agl).
The ability for low speed/hover flight at high altitudes will be an advantage for that particular job.

[Sulley]

Mighty Gem surely ex mil pilots can only be a known quantity -to other ex mil pilots

[Helinut]

The Met have just advertised for a police helicopter pilot:

Police Helicopter Pilot - 1401320129 - Flightglobal Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/police-helicopter-pilot-london-1401320129.htm)

It should be quite an attractive job, although the requirements are quite specific too. All those police pilots who have kept their IRs current form a queue.

Presumably, they will organise/pay for the type rating for the EC145

The comments about post 2014 are interesting re: a new agency i.e.NPAS.

Any bets as to whether the Met boys will be paid less or everyone else will be paid more..........

[xtremalsound]

Helinut I watched in MPW website and I could not find any info about pilot position. Do you know how to apply there?

Regards

[Helinut]

XS,

If you click on the link in my thread it goes to a page that then has an "apply now" link on it (via the flight global website)

[Mr. Rotorvator]

The 'apply now' button redirects you to the Met Police careers website where there is no reference to the pilot position.

I have spoken to the MPS careers people who said that the vacancy has been published too early on Flightglobal and will not appear on the Met Police careers website for a few days yet.

In short - be patient and keep checking at www.metpolicecareers.co.uk (http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/)

Mr. R

[Tango123]

Thats right hands_on

I believe you are correct on both. You cant have 500 hrs low level onshore unless you are mil or ex, and they probably know by now (by name) who they will hire for the job.

I will fill in the application scheme anyhow :ok:

[Camp Freddie]

i applied for this twice before and both times got a letter complementing me on the quality of the application, but NOT inviting me to interview.

"is it because I not ex-mil ?" i think so

[MP5]

Its a salute thing you know. A bit like the funny handshakes :=

[Epiphany]

You either have the experience they require AND they feel you will fit in with the other members of the unit - or you don't and won't.

[ShyTorque]

You cant have 500 hrs low level onshore unless you are mil or ex....

Really? Previous pipeline or powerline inspection experience might help.

[hihover]

123 -

Why don't you put that last post in your application, maybe they don't know that FIs fly at low level too. They may also not realise that offshore guys shuttle at low level, you may actually be doing them a favour.

Or, you can live with it as it is. There are many jobs that I would love to have been able to do but couldn't, and sometimes it is hard to grin and bear it, but that is the way it is. When you become the decider in a flying operation then you will get to choose.

Just for clarification, 500 hours low flying as an FI or shuttling in poor weather is not quite the same as 500 hours military low flying.

Tam

[Epiphany]

Nice post Tam. Some people have no idea about military flying.

Flying circuits in an R22 and shuttling in a 225 is not quite the same as following, yet staying hidden, from a car full of explosives half way across a country, through various control zones and the middle of a city? Or sitting in the hover for 3 hours watching a back door? Or flying NOE on a 50:000 map and never getting lost (without GPS) etc, etc.

Instructing civilian ab-initio students is challenging in its own way and so is offshore shuttling but there is a reason that Police prefer pilots who have been taught certain skills and have honed them flown in various operational theatres.

[pasptoo]

the ultimate test of your skills.

If the advert is correct in this statement, why not pay Footballer salaries?

Pas :}

[Epiphany]

I didn't say that only pilots with military backgrounds were better at Police work. Equally they are no better at any other type of civilan flying.

What you and others seem to fail to realise is that when a Police unit is looking at recruiting a pilot then a candidate with 1500 hours of varied military flying will always be a more attractive proposition than a 1500 hour civilian flight instructor or offshore pilot. This is purely because the ex-mil pilot will be a known quantity and has been through a proven system, has military discipline instilled, has a varied flying background and generally will be someone that will fit in with Police operations.

Also other members of the unit will undoubtedly know the person or can find out a great deal on the military grapevine. One of the most important aspects of a succesful, small, ASU is that a person fits in. If they don't it can be very uncomfortable experience for all concerned and a bad apple can be very difficult to get rid of.

BTW I may be ex-mil and and ex-Police pilot but I now fly offshore and in a previous life I instructed as a civilian on the R22. I don't tend to comment on aspects of the industry that I am not familiar with.

[jayteeto]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[jayteeto]

Most companies in the police/ambulance industry are prepared to employ civil or military trained pilots. My old company PremiAir did and so do my 'new' company (our chief pilot is not ex-mil). Direct employ has done the same. They interview and select the person they see best suited to the job. The majority are ex-military.....................:hmm:
It is the person, not the background

[Epiphany]

Sorry for boring you JT. Of course it is the person but that is only apparent at the interview stage and you won't get there unless you have the background.

[Art of flight]

At present there are more than a few current police pilots in the UK under threat of redundancy in the next year, I know of 2 in my region (not far from the Met) with IRs and 3000-4000 hours and ex Army, who will be quite interested in this job.

With this type of candidate looking to jump from their present employer before being pushed, is it any wonder that those with less qualifications and experience (IR, intimate knowledge of the procedures and legislation of police operations) won't be called for interview?

These are tough times for public money so the employer will want the very best for their cash.

[Camp Freddie]

These are tough times for public money so the employer will want the very best for their cash.

no offence but thats just a horse*** rationalisation, the last 2 times they recruited were better in terms of public money available but the situation for a none ex-mil peep was no different then.

We all know they want ex-mil but they go through the PC nonsense of saying they are an "equal opportunity employer" to satisfy the auditors etc.

anyhow I dont even know why I am complaining, because I wouldnt want the crappy pay they are offering for someone of such tremendous experience anyway. let alone the the inevitably reduced pay coming further down the down with NPAS !

[Mr. Rotorvator]

Just out of interest, how many civie trained pilots who have 500 hrs low-level overland flying experience also have the knowledge of winching and roping that the Met Police are looking for?

Of course they are looking for an ex-Mil guy, but then again, who wouldn't?!:O

[EESDL]

Ladies and Gents
This is a Rotary 'Jobs' thread - not a Rotary 'Bitching' thread.
For the sake of keeping at least one thread on Rotorheads succinct and possibly 'useful' -
can we please keep the horse s4it comments on the 'jetblast' or 'Mil v Civ' forum or make-up some other thread to bitch on?
Porcine Aviation?

[Mr. Rotorvator]

Harrumph.:(

[Seymour Belvoir]

Mr R

I think EESDL just gave you the answer to your question!

[Art of flight]

CF

no offence taken, I see your frustration with the situation, it's always been a job that attracts ex-mil, just in more plentiful times there were more jobs around to fill. To some extent the employers have to go down the road of advertising the position even if there is already a list of people waiting on the old boys network.

As for the remuneration, it is what it is because it's dictated by supply and demand. At present and in the next 3-5 years almost no demand in police aviation and plenty of supply from the military.

I have no axe to grind, just an insiders insight into the reality of this 'industry'.

[bolkow]

do you still have to sleep yuor way to the top there?

[Helinut]

The difference in salary for police pilots working for different employers has always been large and (IMO) difficult to justify. The salary for pilots employed by contractors are not that far apart, driven as they are by commercial pressure and competition.

The direct-employed pilots salary range is huge. There is no national agreement on such things and locally salaries are arrived at, depending upon the influence that can be exercised locally. Some chief pilots have been more successful than others at arguing for a higher salary. Some chief pilots are not even asked about such things: the HR department goes through a spurious comparative process. HR departments exercise extraordinary power in some organisations.

One weapon in the armoury of those looking to justify higher salaries is to argue that "our" pilots need to be specially qualified. One of the big differences is whether a pilot holds an IR. If a pilot does have an IR, then potentially he can get an offshore job with their high salaries. If you can
make a case for that being a requirement, then you can justify higher salaries.[In such cases, it matters little that a police pilot does not REALLY need an IR].

Exactly the opposite is true of ex-mil pilots, as a group. Police flying is an easy option for ex-mil pilots, and as close to the mil job as exists. The work is largely regular, which feels safe to someone who has been a wage slave for some time. The ex-mil also often comes with a military pension and will be likely to accept lower salaries, as a result. These are likely to be factors why lots of police pilots are ex-mil.

It has been my privilege to fly as a police pilot for over 10 years, and I am not an ex-mil pilot. The best way to get a job as a police pilot is to have done it before, and fitted into the role. Getting the first job is the trick. There were routes by which civi pilots with relatively limited experience could gain police flying experience, so that they then had a police-flying track record. Those jobs offered pay that even an ex-mil pilot with a pension would not accept. In large measure, they no longer exist because those outfits do not do police work any more.

Some years ago, when I got a job flying for the MPS, the CP was looking for pilots with previous police experience, and I believe did not favour ex-mil as against civi pilots then. I was 1 of 2 "civi" pilots recruited at that time out of about 6. Existing police pilots would be attracted by the salary and the challenge of flying for the MPS. I suspect this will remain true on this recruitment. The MPS can afford to pick and choose, so it will. One entirely sensible justification for this is to reduce the risk of employment. Any employer should do this, if they can.

MPS annual flying hours are much more than many other police forces, so do not apply if you want a quiet life!

According to the advert, the roping/winching experience is not a requirement, just desirable. When MPS bought their EC145s they bought roping/winching capability. They had a battle to get the CAA to allow them to use it, but presumably they can now, if they advertise as they have. It is anyone's guess as to whether they will ever use such a capability in anger. As far as pilot recruitment goes they can now justifiably suggest that experience would be desirable. Whether they have done that in order to favour ex-mil would be conjecture: I imagine no one except military pilots will have done roping.

Being ex-mil is no guarantee of being good. There have been some extraordinary examples of problem pilots from that source, just as there have been from the civi pool.

If you are an existing police pilot and hold an IR and your base is planned to be closed under NPAS, it will not be surprising if you apply for the MPS position, whether you are ex-mil or not. If you fit that description, you are more likely to be successful than someone who has never done police flying, whatever else you have done.

The police flying I have done has been undoubtedly the most satisfying and rewarding work I have done.

[Bertie Thruster]

Police flying is 'ok'. You just don't get to land anywhere much.

[SilsoeSid]

Police flying is 'ok'. You just don't get to land anywhere much.

Once per sector is enough for most of us :ok:

[Helinut]

Bertie,

I think the very best is dual Police/HEMS, but I have only done a bit of that....

[jayteeto]

Hems is much better in the summer months...... Police flying in the winter. There is nothing like arriving at a hems scene on a crappy day in winter. The mud and sleet manage to find their way in everywhere! I have been Mr Grumpy with this week's weather