The VEMD/FLI an idiots "substitute Pilot's" guide for the AS350B3

[Glassjar 1 Zero]

:)

Would anyone have a presentation or similar on the operation of the Eurocopter AS350B3 VEMD/FLI, from an operational point of view, that they would be willing to share?

Perhaps something that is used when conducting a conversion to type for a new pilot?

Both the aircraft flight manual and the instruction manual have plenty of information on its operation, functions, etc but I find that they don’t really present the information from a pilot’s perspective.

While I am happy operating the system I would like to get into it a little more as I am writing up new operational notes for the B3 and I would like to work up a PPT presentation and new flight reference cards but rather than re-inventing the wheel I thought I would appeal to the generous nature of ppruner's ;)

Thank's in advance GJ1-0

[windowseatplease]

I'm no sure what you need to know. There's a big fat AI in the middle, airspeed on the left, altitude on the right, and errr, that's it. I converted from Robinsons to the EC screens (IFR and VFR) and apart from getting used to interpreting/scanning the screens rather than looking at ye olde dials, there wasn't a lot too it.

Although what I think would be useful is if someone/Eurocopter provided a DVD of the screens in use, in all the different scenarios. So you can see what happens when starting the engines, capturing the glideslope, what happens when one of the autopilot channels get degraded, somethings turns orange etc.

[212man]

WSP,
you are talking about the PFD and ND - it would appear - whereas GJ10 is talking about the FLI and VEMD on the B3 - which has conventional flight instruments.

GJ10,
I don't have anything on the B3, but I do have the EC-155 Training manual in PFD, and could e-mail you the ATA-31 chapter if you like. It has a lot of generic VEMD/FLI info you might be able to extract something from. Here's a sample page:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa50/S92ctc/VEMDpage.jpg

[windowseatplease]

Yes, I am referring to the PDF and MD, sorry.

[Glassjar 1 Zero]

windowseatplease: Yes, I am referring to the PDF and MD, sorry.

WSP and 212 thank you for the replies. WSP no problem, I should have made my question clearer. I also fly glass cockpit, so PFD, etc are familiar.
I fully agree that it would be nice for manufacturers to provide DVD course material to demonstrate their equipment use.

In simple terms, what I am looking for is an example of a type transition brief, to demonstrate the differences in presentation between the normal style of instrumentation, ie dials and the way the VEMD/FLI presents the same information to the pilot. As I mentioned the Eurocopter manuals to me, concentrate on the functions of the systems, rather than the day to day use in by the pilot.

I know how it works and I can write up something myself but I thought I would pick pruner's brains to see if anyone already has a way to introduce it to a new pilot in a practical and simplified method before diving into the manual.

I did the factory course in Marseille which was excellent but the VEMD section I felt was not explained as clearly as it could have been.

GJ1-0

[BigMike]

There is an official type training manual for conversion from a normal AS350, put out by Eurocopter. I have it somewhere in pdf form, not sure of tyhe size of the file but standby... ;)

[BigMike]

"I did the factory course in Marseille" sorry didn't read all of your reply. You already have it then. Your right it does not tell you much. I would have thought the factory course would have explanied it comprehensively.

[helicopter]

Glassjar 1 Zero,

EC has produced VEMD training CD (two months ago). I have tried a demo version only and think that the full version is exactly that what you are looking for.

Check your PM.

[Glassjar 1 Zero]

:ok:

helicopter and 212man, thank you for the replies, I will respond to the PM shortly.

BigMike I would have thought the factory course would have explanied it comprehensively.

So would I! It was covered but not as deeply as I would have liked. As for the Eurocopter, DVD, 1000euro is a bit of a steep annual expense especially when the course should cover the systems in depth and the with continuation training material supplied :rolleyes:

The VEMD is pretty much self explanitory but the FLI I feel could be covered in bit more depth because the information displayed is shown in a completely different manner to a standard type panel which shows Tq, TTI, etc when using standard needle type gauges.

[GoaGuy]

The VEMD is the most beautiful instruments in the Eurocopter Helis.As an engineer I value the info it provides although it hurts my pilots when they overtorque or OTEM. For those who want to know more about the VEMD there is a Cd out from Eurocopter called E-learning Products. Eurocopter will send out the demo which is quite good for the novice. Contact Nicolas @ +33-(0)4-42-85-60-08 or email : [email protected]. Good luck.

[victor papa]

Don't make the FLI more complicated than what it is. It is tQ, T4 and N1 combined in 1 needle on a scale of power usage vs power remaining which is biased in other words take into account atmospheric conditions. The VEMD calculates which limit is your first limiter and that determines the needle position of the FLI. The digital raw signals for tQ, T4, n1 on the rH side will be underlined by yellow or red dependant on the limit reached and which one is affected. On the B3 and B4 the VEMD will also monitor and record the overlimit reached dependant on ground speed for TQ as it is dependant on whether you are above or below 40kts-the vEMD has a pitot static line for this and the biased calculations. How it is done in detail is the secret of THALES as it is there software as is the DECU's.

[JimEli]

I am aware of no airspeed input to the VEMD B3 (can’t speak for the B4). The pilot needs to monitor airspeed and Q for over limits. There is a static pressure input (not dynamic), used for power assurance checks, Ng, T4 and performance computations. Apparently, a class would be beneficial.

[Glassjar 1 Zero]

victor papa It is tQ, T4 and N1 combined in 1 needle on a scale of power usage vs power remaining which is biased in other words take into account atmospheric conditions. The VEMD calculates which limit is your first limiter and that determines the needle position of the FLI.

:ok: Thank you VP for that, concise and to the point.

JimEli Page 2.18 of the AS350B3 Training Manual T1 does indeed show the Static Pressure input on the Data Flow Diagram. I think this is what VP is refering to as Pitot Static?

212man thanks again for the response. I have access to the 155 manual as. I went over it and the information is about as basic as the 350.

GoaGuy I have emailed eurocopter for a copy of the demo which may be of use.

Thank you to all again for your replies and PM's

GJ1 Zero

[victor papa]

Glassjar, I have found that the best information on the VEMD and it's display is on the OPEN350 CD(get it from you engineering department). Go to the Description and Operational Manual and then chapter 34 and select the Central warning and display. This chapter gives you an explanation of every single symbol used, ranges, devaults, codes, modes, functions, logic etc and is the most detail by far I have found. It does not have colour photos, but what I have done is to power up a VEMD and take photos of all the stuff listed and worked it all into a presentation. The chapter gives you all the detail you need to access all possible info and you will see there is so much that you will have to adapt it for your ops.

I am certain you will be shocked as I was if you go through that chapter, as then only will you realise how clever that box is and how under utilised sometimes-AMAZING PIECE OF KIT!

[JimEli]

I'll restate: The B3 VEMD has NO airspeed input, and doesn't adjust limitations when above 40 knots. Also, even though it knows amperage, the performance page does not utilize the information to adjust hover GWT.

There are some older Service Letters available with good VEMD information also.

[Glassjar 1 Zero]

JimEli JimEli I'll restate: The B3 VEMD has NO airspeed input, and doesn't adjust limitations when above 40 knots. Also, even though it knows amperage, the performance page does not utilize the information to adjust hover GWT.

Agreed. As I mentioned I think VP was only making the point that there is a static input.

VP will go into the CD. Tks

Actually what I am putting together is working out so thank you all for the input :ok: pprune at it's best.

[windowseatplease]

Dear XXXX,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Concerning your request, Eurocopter Training Services has recently developed a Light Training Device in order to practice on the VEMD, which enables technicians and pilots to discover all VEMD' functions and acquire appropriate reflexes on ground and in-flight.

Would you like us to send you a demonstration CD by mail?

It will give you the opportunity to evaluate VEMD software's concept. Please notice that you will be able to go over the different modes, simulate numerous failures and exercise on the Light Training Device ONLY in the full version.

Please find attached the product booklet, which will present you the VEMD Light Training Device.

Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any question regarding this product.

Thank you.

Best regards,


Nicolas JAUNARD
Marketing - ETS
Tel: +33-(0)4-42-85-58-16
Eurocopter Training Services (http://www.eurocoptertrainingservices.com)

[victor papa]

:D to Eurocopter! This is such a amazing piece of kit and well done to them for enhancing all of our knowledge with this training program. Yes, the VEMD only uses static and not dynamic which is why it only records above 101% tQ limits as the rest is considered below 40kts. A engineer has to make a entry in the flight folio if a further overtorque occured below 40kt as claimed by a pilot if the scenario arises. However, for delta NG the VEMD takes into consider electrical loading vs NG usage VS atmosphere. These are the interesting things explained in the Description and Operational Manual none of us know about. Met a pilot earlier in the week who were not taught to press select and + until you reach NF and that the indication will be in rotor rpm so the gauage is almost a standby. Brilliant stuff the VEMDcan do!

[axcell]

Hi every one I ma looking for the PDF manual of the VEMD system in the B3 series, or at least a quick user guide to go trough the screens and get information from them, if some one can help me...... thanks

[LNRalph]

Hello fellow helicopter pilots. I know this is a little bit off topic, but... I'm developing a hardware VEMD for training, based on a flight model in X-Plane. I have T4, TQ and Ng, somehow I need to magically convert these to a FLI value. Now I somehow need to figure out what Thales does in their black box, at least a little bit. Does someone have a rough idea on how these figures form the FLI value?

Ng for example, at 83.6% with a max of 98%, does not necessarily mean you're at 8.5 (83.6 / 98 * 10) FLI value. So it is that at some point the Ng starts to become critical, that might be at for example 96 or 97%...who knows...
I would guess that in general you're torque limited, but for example 22.5% torque can correspond to a FLI value of 3, judging from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ3YN9i3NLI
I know it's a bunch of magic, and I'm afraid that no one knows, I just wanted to give it a try, maybe I'm lucky....

[Milo C]

@VEMD Should you say something? Just considering your nickname...

[[email protected]]

LNRalph - you would need to establish the max continuous. max contingency and any time-limited figures (ie 5min take-off) for the various parameters and use these as your benchmarks. The FLI is what it suggests, a first limit, whether that be Tq, Ng, T4 or bananas and that first limit will be either max continuous or max contingency depending on the manufacturers limits. You just have to juggle the numbers so your software recognises which iit is hitting first. I expect the yellow band will be max continuous and the red line will be max contingency.

[LNRalph]

I know the idea behind the FLI value (and I am a pilot myself), but figuring out how the limits are calculated is the tricky part. I came up with a basic interpretation, which seems to work pretty well. The FLI value for T4 and Ng go up exponential when they come up to their limit, I have to narrow that band a bit more maybe. Here's a video of the current result.

https://youtu.be/NUtOTJI39MU

[[email protected]]

but figuring out how the limits are calculated is the tricky part Do you need to know that? Surely you just take the figures straight from the RFM for the limits. It is calibrating the rest of the range for the FLI that would be the tricky thing - maybe that is the information you are after?

[LNRalph]

Finding the limits is indeed not the problem :) It is figuring out what FLI value they represent, probably also combinations form a certain value. I'm afraid that no one knows except for Thales and Airbus.

[[email protected]]

but you have an amber and a red line on your FLI - surely the start of the amber section would be max continuous and the red line would be max contingency with anything above that being time-limited transients.

On your illustration you seem to have amber from 9.5 to 10 FLI with another red dot (transient) just under 11 FLI. I suspect Tq and Ng are probably close to linear up to the limits whilst maybe T4 varies a bit more with airflow.

[LNRalph]

My example video is for a EC120, not for a AS350.

[LNRalph]

Ng is not linear. It can be at 80% with an FLI value of 2. The torque seems to be indeed linear.

The FLI value for both Ng and T4 rise exponentially close to their limits. I've made a guess as to where this starts, but it seems to work quite alright. The real thing is probably way more complex.

[JimEli]

Ng is not linear. It can be at 80% with an FLI value of 2. The torque seems to be indeed linear.

The FLI value for both Ng and T4 rise exponentially close to their limits. I've made a guess as to where this starts, but it seems to work quite alright. The real thing is probably way more complex.

I haven't studied the EC-120 FLI closely, I'm more familiar with the AS-350 series. However, I don't think your interpretation is entirely correct. Read Airbus's patent covering the VEMD, the algorithm is outlined in the document. It's not magic, but it’s not rocket science either.

[Pablo332]

LNRalph - you would need to establish the max continuous. max contingency and any time-limited figures (ie 5min take-off) for the various parameters and use these as your benchmarks. The FLI is what it suggests, a first limit, whether that be Tq, Ng, T4 or bananas and that first limit will be either max continuous or max contingency depending on the manufacturers limits. You just have to juggle the numbers so your software recognises which iit is hitting first. I expect the yellow band will be max continuous and the red line will be max contingency.
Then all you need is the proprietary VEMD algorithm modifying delta Ng with reference to Po and generator load and you have cracked it, sounds a piece of afternoons work.

[LNRalph]

Haha exactly :) There's some rough information to go with, but the (exact) calculation/algorithm stays secret. Also delta Ng, sounds easy, but over what time period? 100 milliseconds? 1 second? 10...? It will stay a big mystery imI afraid, all we can do is guess and try to come as close as possible.

[Reely340]

How about taking flight idle's ng , Tq, and t4 right before takoff as FLI=0 (or 1 if you prefer)
and interpolate between this and max. continous?

The interesing part is the gradual reduction of the margin to "max. allowed FLI" while operating in the higher than continuous area,
especially when having "used" 4 mins. of some "max 5. mins limit" a reduction of power demand to below max. continuous for 3 seconds probably should not allow another 5 mins. of over max. continous power.
That is you need to model a "cool off" phase for each transient limit and all possible combinations thereof
which only when fully achieved enables another run of the "5 mins. limit",
but when that cool off phase was shorted the "5 mins." limit would become a "2 mins. limit"

P.

[LNRalph]

You can see from various videos that flight idle is not around 1, but usually around 3 or sometimes even 4.