Can a Dream = Reality

[chrisy08]

Hi All,

I have recently finished my A Levels, and am now im university. If you look over past threads I have created, it says I have always wanted to become a pilot, since the age of 5. The reason I started university because I didnt think the reality of life, would allow me to become a pilot. Since starting, I have been reflecting over and over again, about living my dream and just doing the pilot training. Its not as simple as that I know, and I also know how difficult the tests are before hand. University is not what I want to do, and I am 100% commited to doing what I want to do now. I thought before I started uni that my dreams could not come true because of MONEY and how expensive the training is, but I am willing to get myself into so much debt at nearly 19 years old.

Anyone been in a similar position themselves?

Also any guidance as to what would be the best thing to do?

Sorry I know its a very boring thread, but I am so stressed out.

Regards to All :)

[lpokijuhyt]

Chrissy,

Please read all the threads, not just the ones here in the beginner section. You will notice a trend and it's not pretty. If your mind is already made up about becoming a pilot, well then there's not much you will probably listen to. Most of the posts here are honest and coming from experienced people. I don't know how to say it, but this industry is completely ****** up now. OK, maybe the economy will get better in the future, but do you honestly believe pilot conditions will go back to what they were just a few years ago. Do you realize that paying for your Type Rating in a shiny 737 became an industry "norm" just in the last few years and now paying to work for the first 300 hours or so is the new norm? What the hell is next? You will get so tired of being bent over constantly that you'll walk with a permanent limp.

Remember you don't have to wear the uniform to feel important. If you like flying then fly....for fun. That doesn't mean you should do it as a profession because it will quickly become not so fun.

The FTOs that advertise on this site are leeches. Dont believe the hype, when they tell you there is no better time than now to train. Run, when you hear this nonsense.

[tom775257]

I would suggest:

Finish uni, get your degree. The first airline I worked for required a degree for a pilot job, so it is not always pointless on the aviation front. Secondly it will allow some more time to pass before you want to start training, which will hopefully allow you to finish at a better time for pilot recruitment.

I finished uni at the usual time, now I'm a 3 bar FO with a command 'tick' at 28 (although I will not see a command for many many years) after instructing and procrastinating about many career friendly options. You have loads of time!

Don't rush into it and as per above the various wannabe threads will offer good guidance.

Best of luck.

[chrisy08]

Thanks both, that is great information. It has really helped me out.

Regards to both :ok:

[turbulentmonkey]

Hey Chrisy08!

Just to help you make your decision I'll let you know my position - it's quite similar to yours...

Im 19 and in my 3rd year of a BSC (Computing Science so nothing related to the avaition industry). I never planned on going to uni but got the grades and wanted to leave school, so I went without thinking about it. It is a great experience I must say, and you will have experiences you will never forget. It is hard work, but you will not look back and regret it.

Just like you, I always wanted to be a pilot. My friends are all now working as builders, electricians, plumbers – all good jobs that are always needed, but none of them enjoy their work. I don’t want to work in an office, waking up every day thinking damn I’ve got to go work – and that’s one of the reasons why I want to fly.

So I applied to the Royal Navy to be a pilot 2 years ago (because it was actually what I wanted to do for a long time, buzzing the ground at 300mph, with the added bonus of getting paid through training) and failed the aptitude tests! I really should have studied more before I arrived. Disappointed but determined I gave it another shot and passed in June this year. Then I had the long awaited AIB and messed it all up. I felt a lot of pressure down at Gosport as all the other candidates had X amount of hours and had dads and uncles who were Lieutenant Commander's etc. In the end it was down to me and I blew it, so all I could do is continue with my degree. I don’t exactly enjoy it but it's something I’m always going to have and will help me later in life - you should seriously think about that.

Shortly after failing AIB I met a guy who trained at FTE Jerez, Spain. Great guy, down to earth and yes he did loan the cash. So I thought yeah I can do that too - I went over, passed the Pilapt tests, passed interview with instructor then interview with owner and got offered a place.

But we aren't talking about a few hundred quid here or there - we're talking 82K debt! Do I want this hanging over my shoulders for the next ten years, worrying about getting a job at the end of the course(because if I don’t then my parents house is gone), and the answer is obviously no.

So I had a look at modular (I’m not starting a debate here guys so please be sensible and don’t quote this). I worked out roughly:
7K for PPL
10K hour building
6K for CPL
10K for IR
3K for MCC
And say you go over budget - 5K
That’s a rough total of 41K - saving 40K from going integrated!

Plus I plan on doing this in the summer break, then going back to study for my 4th year. You should think about this - a part time job should be enough to keep you ticking if you do enough hours and you could use the student loan to pay the PPL - it's the cheapest loan you'll ever get.
I’ve got my mind set on doing the PPL this coming summer and leaving the CPL till a year later I think (time to save some pennies).

I noticed how similar positions we are in and thought I should share what little knowledge I have. Honestly, think long and hard about taking out loans, even student loans for that matter, but do what is right for you.

In the current climate it’s a no brainer! Just have a look around some of the threads on here.

Hope this is of some help,
Monkey

[Aerouk]

My story is actually pretty similar to Monkey.

Went to University study a degree in Law, now doing a post grad and will be going down the Navy route as well (haven't done any selection yet).

Didn't want to go to Uni, but I'm glad I did.

[low n' slow]

Chrissy.

I've been in your shoes. I wanted to be a pilot ever since I understood what flying was. Whatever anyone says about the industry being in ruins will never cloud your picture of what flying is about. I understand that.

But do you know what it means to be a pilot? From my own experience, I found the following:

- It means you're away from your home usually more than 5 nights in one row. In my current situation it also means that I'm only home for 2 consecutive nights.

- It means a salary that does not match the amount of responsibility taken by you as an employee and certainly not a salary that matches for the time you spend away from home.

- It means spending an infinite amount of time in close quarters with people you might not like.

- It means living out of a suitcase.

- It means trying to understand why your employer does not provide enough funds for you to operate safely.

- It means working for contracts that are not worth the paper they are written on.

- It means being able to separate personal feelings from what you are doing. Try being bullied around according to the above (normally outside the envelope of your signed and agreed contract) and still try to find the safest and most economic solutions.

- It means possibly standing in an unfamiliar lounge with crying passengers, trying to explain to them why you just evacuated the aircraft.

- It means being able to resist being pushed into performing a flight on unsafe grounds, despite your manager tells you you'll loose your job if you don't.

- It also means working in an environment where everything matters. Weather, aircraft systems, groundbased systems, interpersonal skills, manegerial skills, psychology.

- It most likely means that you will end up in situations for which you have no training.

I realize that I sound very bitter when I say all this. And many of you who work for proper airlines and have good jobs may not recognise much of what I just said, but very little progress has been made in the conflict between economy and flight saftey since this shism was first highlighted. In fact, we are loosing ground in this battle. This has caused me at least to start evaluating if I am in fact safe at my current employer.

Why do I still do it? At first I believed firmly that this industry was sound. That there were strong forces that actually wished for safe operations. Now I am not so sure. And then there is also what you see when you look at it for what it is: it's simply flying, nothing could possibly compare to that, whatever the underlying circumstances. This view is in part what has made the pilots as a group so weak. We are all dreamers...

My 5 cents worth
/LnS

[Aerouk]

Excellent post Low n slow.

[corsair]

Yes chrisy a lot of us were in similar positions. I never wanted to be anything other than a pilot, never seriously considered anything else. It was the dream and in a funny way it still is. Because of course I never really achieved it. I work as a pilot and while I sometimes pinch myself that I actually working as a pilot. It isn't really anything close to the dream.

Because of course it's a job. No more no less. So you have to approach it like that. If you wanted to be an accountant, you wouldn't call it a dream. You would simply research the requirements and plan a career path that lead to achieving your goal. It's the same with flying. To become a pilot you must train to be a pilot, thus you must find a way of obtaining the money to pay for it. That's the first step.

You've made the first step already by going to college. This will provide you with a job to finance your training. Remember too you are only 19. There is no hurry. It feels like it is but there really is no hurry. Particularly right now with the downturn in the business. My own life was a salutory example of this. I was in a hurry to become a pilot too. At age eighteen I didn't go to college because I thought I would get a job and start learning to fly or get into the military (which I failed to do). With my first week's wages I did. Big mistake, as a result all these years later. The only qualifications I have are as a pilot. Every job I had over the years was low status, low paid. The reason I had lots of low paid jobs was simply because I had no qualifications to speak of. This actually inhibited my ability to pay for training so it took much longer than is should. It was a vicious circle.

So there's no hurry. Relax. If you work it right, in five years time you will be either working as a pilot or applying to all and sundry. Five years seems a long time when you're 19. It isn't, take my word for it. Time seems to speed up as you get older.

Tubulentmonkey has the right idea. Follow his example. Make a plan. I remember reading about an American pilot. His goal was to work for American Airlines. He set out a career ladder and timetable. As he progressed along, if he got fed up. He would pull out the plan and review how far he had come. It always gave him an impetus to keep going. You can use any method of your choice but set a plan.

Leave the dream thing behind. Dreams are for children. You now have a career goal and you should settle down to work out how to make it happen. It really is very simple. You're not aiming to be Hollywood star. Just a humble pilot. It's just another job.

There is far too much hype and tension around becoming a pilot. The training is mostly fun even if it's hard work at times. The exams are no big thing. They simply need to be got through. Getting the job at the end of training is no different to any other career. You have to apply yourself to it.

Just get on with it. Like me you knew it was all you wanted a very long time ago. So get to work.

[G SXTY]

Chrisy, you have had some good advice here – turbulentmonkey has a very sensible game plan, and Corsair’s analysis is spot on.

Understandably, you are looking at a flying career from the perspective of a teenager who is impatient to get started first, and consider the cost later. Which would explain:

University is not what I want to do, and I am 100% commited to doing what I want to do now. I thought before I started uni that my dreams could not come true because of MONEY and how expensive the training is, but I am willing to get myself into so much debt at nearly 19 years old.

Luckily, when I was at uni (for no better reason than my parents pushing me to go) flying was such a far off dream that I never really thought it would happen. After graduation I drifted into a career in steel and shipping that lasted nearly 15 years. It bored me silly, and aged 29 I finally went for a trial lesson – and fell in love. I qualified 7 years later(!) aged 36, right at the peak of the job market, and thanks largely to good timing (and luck) I had an airline job within 3 months. Nearly 2 years down the road, I love it as much as the day I started. It’s generally a pleasure to go to work, and the good days outnumber the bad ones by at least 10 to one. I’m lucky though to work for a decent airline, and there are plenty who are less fortunate (see low n’ slow’s post). Note also my repeated use of the word ‘lucky’ . . .

Looking back, I’d only change one thing - I’d have jumped ship and changed careers much earlier. I would not have jacked in university, however. Without the degree, I would not have got a look in with any of my previous jobs, and they were well paid enough to finance much of my training. As a result, my debts are relatively small (around £25k extra on the mortgage), whereas my colleagues who took the Oxford / FTE route are earning the same as me, but owe £80k plus . . . I know times have changed since I was at uni, and students are now graduating with much higher levels of debt than I had, but one thing remains true – a decent degree (i.e. in something useful) opens doors to jobs - and potential earnings - that are generally unobtainable without one.

Another reason to stick at it is the job market. Right now it’s awful, particularly for pilots, but also in the wider economy. University is probably the safest place to be, as you’ll be insulated from the recession for the next couple of years. Hopefully, by the time you graduate, the economy will be healthier and jobs easier to come by – whether in flying or anything else.

Yet another reason is the dreaded “plan B” for when it all goes wrong. Most pilots can name you friends or colleagues who have lost their medical and are unable to fly, and a degree would be very useful on your CV if the unthinkable happened.

Mate, I well understand the frustration of knowing what you want to do, and being stuck doing something else. But – view it as a means to an end. By completing the degree, you’re increasing your earning potential in non-flying jobs, delaying your entry into a job market that’s frankly on its @rse, and giving yourself a decent plan B in case flying doesn’t work out. Aged 18, there is absolutely no need to rush into training, and given the economic realities, it’s just about the worst thing you could do.

Best of luck, and carry on enjoying the cheap beer!

[BullHughes]

I went to university and loved every second of it. I did an Aviation degree and got a PPL at the same time. Im working as an Avionic technician on Apache helicopters in the Army now, sticking away £800 a month, and flying regularly for pleasure. My plan is to leave the army in 3yrs at the age of 28 and spend £30k of saved cash on a CPL after which I'll have NO debt.

But to be honest, I love my job and PPL flying so much, I may not bother! Remember, you can do all sorts of cool flying with just a private licence. You should certainly go to uni, take your time and sample the beer and ladies. If you can get a degree it will help you immeasurably throughout your next 45 years of working life. Qualifying for a commercial licence at 30 is perfectly reasonable.