New Bidding Rules in Emirates

[puff m'call]

Just another way to pee off all the pilots.:ugh:

Now Ed starts to cry safety when all it does is pee off pilots in top bid who commute home once every few months. Nice one Ed :mad: You plonker, do us all a favour, leave now!!!

CREW PLANNING – REVISED BID ASSIGNMENT STRATEGY

One of Emirates strengths in the areas of operational flight safety has always been that our flight crews have had a greater depth of experience than our competitors across the range of destinations and regions to which the airline operates. With many of our destinations encompassing a greater level of challenging operational environments than some of our competitors, this is a critical competency to maintain. This policy has allowed us to ensure a superior level of knowledge and understanding with regard to the operating environment as well as ensure adequate preparation for command by First Officers. Equally, it provides improved operational decision-making by Commanders who are thereby intimately familiar with the intricacies of the individual airports and their surroundings. The FOM and OM-D has captured this desire by ensuring that one of the requirements for command eligibility is that the candidate demonstrates a wide variety of route experience during the initial screening for command selection. Additionally, during initial training, each pilot is exposed to a number of varied regions and airports to ensure that the pilot is aware of the challenges of operating into those regions. It is expected that he will continue to impose upon himself the discipline to ensure that level of experience is maintained.
Over the last several months, Flight Ops has been tracking a disturbing trend by a growing number of pilots to continuously bid to the same destination each week and often month after month. The result of that type of bidding is a natural reduction in the overall knowledge of our operating theatre which is a core competency of our pilot group and a as a consequence, a potential reduction to safety margins.
Beginning with the November 2009 bid month, Crew Planning will be implementing a revision in bid assignment strategy. The system will be programmed to award a maximum of two flights to the same airport in any bid period. Due to the small number of destinations presently served, the A380 will be added to this restriction at a later date.

Please contact your respective Fleet Manager with any questions.


Captain Edward Davidson
Senior Vice President Fleet
Flight Operations/Ops Control/Others - Standard List
Snr. Vice-President Safety & Standards, Emirates.

[IXNAT]

Puff, I agree with you about pissing of the pilots. Lots of ways to mitigate the reasons behind said FCN (theatre quals, special airport quals, etc...have to do one or the other once a quarter or something along those lines). But don't think for a minute that this was decision by ED and him alone. You know he doesn't have the authority to put out such a huge change. So you think him leaving in March will change anything? Direct your vitriol at Flt. Ops in general, from the top down....not three down. Not defending him but rather just pointing out the obvious, IMHO.

[GMDS]

I agree that the man is GAARfield's silly, drewling dog and that such a restriction has not even the slightest to do with the mentioned depth of experience.
EK has sent guys to new regions and destinations (I remember Sao Paolo and recently Adis ...) where not one of the crew has ever been there and no special briefing whatsoever was given. EK Management couldn't give a rodents backside to experience and would have happily and mercilessly fired any one who screwed up at a new airport.

However, this new restriction comes as a blessing to us, I have to admit. It's true that certain destinations are only atteinable in top bid and you have to bid for them so heavily, that if you get them, they consequently pop up in tripples or more. No one would restrict the date range because it simply lessens the chance of getting there. But most of us don't want tripples. Doubles would do nicely, thank you and they would increase the chances for others, even in lower groups, to get some crumbs as well.
To me this restriction is an improvement, allthough it was intended to screw us.

[Neptunus Rex]

Quote from Mr Ed's missive in the opening post:

"the overall knowledge of our operating theatre "

Are Emirates pilots now moonlighting as surgeons, anaesthetists or theatre sisters?
I think we should be told!

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/doctor.gif

[theidler]

Ed wrote
One of Emirates strengths in the areas of operational flight safety has always been that our flight crews have had a greater depth of experience than our competitors across the range of destinations and regions to which the airline operates.

Just what does this mean? Does it mean that because Emirates flies somewhere that they are safer than an airline that doesn't fly to that same destination or region? Beats me!
Actually, what could be safer than not flying somewhere at all?

This policy has allowed us to ensure a superior level of knowledge and understanding with regard to the operating environment as well as ensure adequate preparation for command by First Officers. Equally, it provides improved operational decision-making by Commanders who are thereby intimately familiar with the intricacies of the individual airports and their surroundings.

What policy? No policy is either specifically or generally mentioned. Does he mean a policy of transporting 'customers' to demanding destinations and charging them for the privilege?


Over the last several months, Flight Ops has been tracking a disturbing trend by a growing number of pilots to continuously bid to the same destination each week and often month after month.

What Flight Ops have been witlessly tracking is a consequence not a cause. As GMDS points out it's a vagary of the bidding system that if we want to go somewhere just once, we will probably end up going there 3 times in that bidding month. The previous bidding system that was in place before CRS came along some years ago allowed bidders to cap the number of visits to a destination. An obvious and desirable facility, but one which has escaped Emirates and CRS until now.

Maybe with this rule, there will be some improvement in the random selections generated by CRS in the lower bid groups.

[Yossarian]

Yeah. The 'operating theatre' is where the frontal lobotomies are performed.

[Duh]

It's abundently clear that Eds' only motive is to meddle in something he has no clue in. What a "little, mindless man".

[kingpost]

Sorry guys but I have to agree with the FCN.

Some FO's just fly to the US, they've never been into Chennai, Dhaka or Islamabad at 3 in the morning in crap wx or any other testing airports - then they get their command........

I think he has a point.

[145qrh]

I see where Kingpost is coming from, but Mr Ed's latest drivel will in no way help that.

Instead of going to Hamburg 3 times in a month , Pilot von Hans now bids to go to Hamburg twice ,then Frankfurt ...Apart from pissing of Hans, what have we achieved..Zilch.

:ugh::ugh:

As our route network grows the more difficult it becomes to be familiar with lots of different places, our SOPS and OM-C are supposed to mitigate these factors but the paperwork we get is laughable.

OM-C is a joke, Co Notams written in Jinglish..recent Doha debacle, displaced unlit threshold at night, or some other such crapola.

[puff m'call]

Well IMHO, if you're in your top bid group and want three flights to Manchester, Rome or Manila or where ever then you should be able bid and get the dam things!!!

Who ever's put this is place, it's not for the reasons quoted. That's crap:ugh:


This is yet another restriction that's going to piss folks right off.

[theidler]

Instead of going to Hamburg 3 times in a month , Pilot von Hans now bids to go to Hamburg twice ,then Frankfurt ...Apart from pissing of Hans, what have we achieved..Zilch.

Not necessarily. Perhaps Adolf who wants to go to Hamburg but has lower bid seniority to Hans gets the third one that Hans didn't get, and that maybe Hans didn't want anyway, but was given because of the piss-poor bidding system.

[a747jb]

Don't forget to use this against them!!! Especially for us airbus guys, I would like to see them send me to f...ing Bangalore 3 times in a month in the middle of the night. On my junior 2 months, I think I served every Indian destination 3 times or more. We will see how long this last when they find it does not serve their needs.

[Phil Squares]

What a laugh!!!!

I knew Ed in a previous life and didn't trust him then. Don't work for EK, but beleive me, Ed is out for Ed and no one else. He will stop at nothing to promote himself and step on anyone that gets in the way. But, I am sure that is nothing new to you guys.

Good luck

[5star]

B.t.w. Phil,

You did hear the story that he showed again his true colors and tried 'running' over an FO a few weeks ago?
Well... Apparently he chose the wrong one, the FO being UAE national and pretty high up in the food chain here in Dubai. :}
Might be the real reason why he's been asked to pack...

[flaphandlemover]

5-star,

didn't come across this one... what happened?

[mensaboy]

You ever get the feeling the rest of the management clowns at EK, also realize ED is the absolute bottom of the barrel with respect to ability and intelligence?

Hence HE must sign off on most of the degradations to our T&C's. I actually feel for ED sometimes because he is a baby minnow in a sea of piranha.

His latest dictate is actually one of his most benign although I'm sure it took him and his secretary about 8 hours and a thesaurus to come up with that one. Reminds me of Jackie Jr from the Sopranos. A man who loved to hear himself talk, yet was so stupid he used improper words (usually 'sounding' like the proper words) in an attempt to convey a message.

I despise TCAS because he has sold his soul for profit, yet he is somewhat intelligent. AAR is a vindictive and misguided man, the product of his upbringing. But ED, is a piece of work because he has no excuse for being so dim-witted.

Remember his assertion that Capt America was a wealth of knowledge for him to learn about being a Captain? That should say it all !

After my first chat with ED, shortly after his arrival, I walked away thinking he was quite the odd-ball, yet for some inexplicable reason, all of my American buddies thought he was wonderful !

Needless to say my first interaction with AAR, left me in shock, and that was probably the moment I realized this airlined was doomed.

EK will falter, just as Dubai has faltered. There is not much hope that either will prosper in the future. Take heed you naive and dare I say foolish, wannabe EK pilots (not meant to offend anyone)..... but the good times are over at EK and also in Dubai.

[Payscale]

If it is safety that is paramount (which it is.. closely followed by profit) then we should have a group of pilots only doing Indian flights and another doing African flights and so forth.. Then they would be experts in their field and safety would be improved... Hope ED doesnt read this :bored:

[411A]

The obvious answer is for EK to drop the pilots bidding system altogether, and assign a rational/rotating roster of flights to each crew member, with the proviso that individual crew members could trade flights on a rational basis, keeping in mind the flying hours must be keep more or less equal.
Of course, rational is the key modus operandi in all this, so it might well not work at EK.
I have personally worked at two airlines where the above referenced pilots rostering system was in use, and most all seemed to like it quite well.
Pilots could trade flights up to a maximum of two per month, and junior pilots in each crew position also received benefits from operating to a variety of destinations....good and bad.

[4HolerPoler]

Wind-up alert EK guys. Just ignore it please.

4HP

[CAYNINE]

What do you expect from the moronic dick from Arizona.... another geneticly deficient piece of flotsam with nothing more to do than mouth off about subjects that he has no idea of.... then again that would apply to his countryman that inflicted his worthlessness upon us here in EK and is thankfully departing back to the land of love and happiness.

[411A]

Wind-up alert EK guys. Just ignore it please.


As you might expect from one individual whom has never worked for an air carrier that have/has used this technique for crew rostering.
Having said this, once EK finds out (and, I expect they will, eventually:rolleyes:) that the shared type of roster works well for all concerned, they will implement it anyway...perhaps in a way that is totally obtuse, in order to obtain reasonable utility from crew members.:}
IE: never underestimate the ability of an airline management to utilise a crew rostering technique that suits them, not crew members.

Doubt?
Wait and see.

[NoJoke]

As much as I hate to say this - and I do hate it - he may have a point.

[helen-damnation]

There's a lot of people getting their nether garments in a bunch here!

IMHO, it's not a bad thing, and you can still bid for a region if you want to avoid certain areas.

It's a bummer for those with family out of DXB and I can understand the reaction from them. Having said that, I believe the company would waive the limit for those who had special circumstances/compassionate reasons as has been done in the past.

Taking cover...

H-D

[ekpilot]

Again a change made by the company at large. A simple prompt in the bidding system would have been enough. One prompt asking you how many time you want this destination for the month. Most of the time when i request a destination in my top bid I get it 3 times. Not my choice. Just a problem with the bidding system. The fact is that our managers are so busy with what they are doing they can not come up with a reasonable solution. Only a few guys want to go at the same destinations many times and they get it only in their top bid. I feel for them now. What is the very sad story is that the manipulations of these managers are now affecting us in our top bids. Like if we would make them work on their week ends to be more productive. Let's not talk about the other bid groups because it is not funny anymore. The managers are making NO EFFORTS to try to find proper way out. Just as if it would be so easy for us to top up 5 T of fuel on every flight just because we can and it is an easy way out! It is just a trend of cutting our T&C. Then they can get their production bonuses. I think they are broke. They will lie to the end. But by now we all know that, except the fools that think it will get better with time:ugh: Sad, Sad but true. I think EK is broke and it is not getting better. The trend vector is going down fast... they are putting out fires! Terrain Terrain Pull Up Pull UP! If you do the wrong actions then you crash. Desperate times desperate measures. That's what i see from these guys for the past few years. They can't make money with the A/C full anymore. The concept is obsolete. Welcome to a brand new world. I sure wouldn't want to be in management shoes. Except when they get their fat bonuses. Because they deserve it.

Keep Discovering:ok:

[Chandler Bing]

Dead Tired | Home (http://www.dead-tired.eu)

[145qrh]

Looks like it's changed again.

2 trips to a bidding region according to this weeks update, or have I mis-read it?

Can't they ever stop fiddling with things???

[BigGeordie]

That is the way I read it as well. It will be interesting to see how it works in practice- I think a lot of people will be going to destinations they don't really want to visit, even in their higher bid months. You would think they would be able to remove this limit in the top one or two bid months but that would make our lives too easy I suppose.:ugh:

[338C]

There is at least one Asian carrier that route endorsees individuals on one route and then requires the person to fly that route for a period of time. Two years comes to mind however this is subject to correction.

Having an individual intimately familiar with a specific route provides defenses that are missing with less familiarity.
A casual knowledge of many routes does not equate to an intimate general knowledge.

Forcing individuals to operate to ports that they would normally choose to avoid like for example JFK during the winter, has significant risk management issues. Knowing ones own comfort levels and operating within those levels is better risk management than when the same individual is working at the top end of his comfort zone where there is less margin to deal with non normal occurrences.

In the inevitable accident/incident occurrence that will result from this new policy a functional investigatory agency may well find that the author of the policy is a significant factor.

[DADDY-OH!]

And the poor f*****s who screwed up at Jo'Burg, Perth, Melbourne & all the other 'Not in the Public Domain' near-f*** ups that don't reach these threads were all caused because the crews concerned were not 'Network Exposed & Experienced'????

What a pan full of arse gravy!!!!!

These incidents & near incidents had NOTHING at all to do with arrogance ,empire-building & systematic faults within EK Training?

NOTHING at all to do with crews being forced to work dangerous, punishing & fatigue inducing rosters?

The ability of getting home in addition to the Days Off & Leave allocations was one of the benefits that I stayed for when I was in EK but I think this 'policy' is just going to fuel the fire that is EK's experience retainment ability.

[Panther 88]

Reread the FCI---no two "airports" not regions.

[Wordsworth]

Evening,

Could some kind soul in EK please explain to me the process/logic/ilogic behind the new rules for bidding?

As far as I can tell after getting my Nov roster its a ballsup!

Ed says 2 trips per region.I understand that its actually meant to limit us to 2 trips per destination but the program couldnt do this!However this does not limit the number of turnarounds to the same region!!

So its seems like 2 trips per region at the bidding/planning stage but you can swap(if you can) to 2 trips to the same place.

So if i want to see family eg in the UK the max I could receive is say 1 LHR and 1 MAN.In the past I could have had 3 LHR and 3 MAN.UK is one region

Eds rant about safety and giving us forced exposure too different routes is farcical and insulting.We all know that in the top say 2 bid groups we get roughly what we would have liked and in the bottom 3 groups get roughly what we dont like.ie destinations we dont bid for.therfore satisfying Eds reasons behind the change

Anyone care to enlighten me on the above changes.

Hope the above all makes some kind of sense to someone :)

Ive always been a glass half full type of person when it comes to EK despite all the Crap recently but despite my relatively long time here,this new change has really p_ssed me off.

Over and out.

:ugh:

[White Knight]

Process?

Logic?


How long you been here:}:}

[fatbus]

EK does not want you to be able to see your family anywhere else but DXB and some of ED's buddies still dont like their rosters( DEC's that still dont get what they want in top bid)

Line bidding is coming so take what you can for now

Some really good 330 contracts out there

[flareflyer]

Fat,
what kind of good contracts?
Let us know please
Flare

[EK Snorkel]

what kind of good contracts?
Let us know please



Few examples:

- Vietnam Airlines A330 / B777 contracts via Parc, Direct Personnel, Rishworth.

- Air China A330 Capt with basings in Vancouver, Sydney, Frankfurt, Paris

- Jetstar Australia, looking for A330 F/O s

- Tiger Airways Australia - A320 jobs based in MEL

- Korean, several types , commuting contracts

- Aerologic, based in Leipzig, Germany; B777 fast track commands

Good luck :ok: