Can I train for additional ratings (NR,IMC) in Group owned AC?

[fanda78]

Hi gals and guys,

I have finished PPL in January and with winter time approaching I would like to progress on to NR and possibly IMC.
Few month after passing PPL I bought share in PA28 and I would like to use it for above mentioned training.
Can you advice if this is possible/legal?
Some people say that this is no problem, some says that CAA is not very clear on this topic and some say that this is not possible and was banned by CAa (apparently some groups were selling share for one quid just to get training)
Thanks for any answer!

[VFR Transit]

Frank (I assume thats you)

Check Flyer.co.uk and look at their forums, this has only just been covered.

Cheers
VFR

[fanda78]

1.
UNITED KINGDOM
AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION
CIRCULAR
AIC: W 071/2009
13-AUG-2009
Administration
REMUNERATED FLYING TRAINING AND FLYING TESTS IN PRIVATE AIRCRAFT.
NATS Ltd
UK Aeronautical Information Service
Heathrow House
Bath Road
Hounslow, Middlesex TW5 9AT
URL: NATS | AIS (http://www.ais.org.uk/)
Phone: 020-8750 3778 (Editorial)
Phone: 0870-8871410 (Distribution - Tangent Direct)
Phone: 01293-573476 (Content - Flight Operations Policy)
1 The basic position
1.1 Article 157(1) of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) requires that, when valuable consideration1* is given or promised in respect of a
flight, the flight will be deemed to be for the purposes of aerial work. Part 3 of the ANO (Airworthiness) requires that aircraft used for aerial
work purposes must be maintained to a higher airworthiness standard than is normally required for private flights.
1.2 Article 157(2), however, allows valuable consideration to be given for the services of a pilot and provided that it is the only form of
valuable consideration being given in respect of the flight will be deemed to be private for airworthiness purposes and therefore the aircraft
need only be maintained to an airworthiness standard applicable to private flight.
1.3 This means that if a person has the use of an aircraft without needing to pay anyone for it, he can pay for the services of a pilot,
perhaps including flying instruction, even though the aircraft is only maintained to a standard applicable to a private flight.
1.4 If an instructor provides his services free of charge and no valuable consideration is being given or promised, the flight is private.
2 Jointly owned aircraft
2.1 When an aircraft is owned by more than one person, the joint owners often enter in to an agreement that requires them to make
payments towards a central fund to pay for the upkeep of the aircraft. Normally, according to Article 157(1), making payments in relation to
a flight would render that flight as being for aerial work purposes but Article 162 allows such payments to be made provided that the payment
is the only form or valuable consideration being given and the conditions of Article 162 are met (ie maximum of 20 owners).
2.2 This means that joint owners can make payments towards the direct operating costs and annual costs of the aircraft and the aircraft
need only be maintained to airworthiness standards applicable to private flight.
3 Flying Training in Jointly owned aircraft
3.1 If a joint owner pays for the services of a pilot in addition to contributing towards a central fund, neither is the only form of valuable
consideration being given or promised and therefore the alleviations given by Article 157(2) and Article 162 do not apply. This would normally
mean that jointly owned aircraft used for remunerated flying training would have to be maintained to airworthiness standards applicable to
aerial work flight.
3.2 In order to allow owners of jointly owned aircraft to receive instruction in their aircraft, a General Exemption2 against the restrictions
of Article 162 has been issued. The conditions of the General Exemption require that the person undergoing the training hold a licence that
entitles him to act as pilot in command on that flight or would entitle him except that the licence does not bear the necessary certificate of
test, experience or revalidation and the purpose of the training is to obtain that certificate.
3.3 This means that it is not possible to conduct training towards the grant of a licence or rating in a jointly owned aircraft but it is possible
to renew or revalidate existing licences and ratings or to undertake differences, familiarisation and refresher training.
*. 1 Valuable Consideration is considered to be a payment of some kind and is not limited to physical currency.
2 The General Exemption for Flying Training can be downloaded from the CAA website: Publications with Titles Containing : ors4 | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/ors4)

[fanda78]

Yes its me :-)
the above article is VERY wordy...
last paragraph is clear but the one above makes me wonder...

[fanda78]

looks like that five hours (or so) towards Night Rating will cost me 5x GBP 128 using club C152 rather than 5x54 using group owned PA28 (plus 5x 35 for instructor)
This just doesn't make any sence...
Why CAA? Why?

[smith]

I think that licensed flying schools have to have each aircraft certified or registered with the CAA as worthy to act as a training aircraft. Maybe if you got your aircraft certified as containing the minimum equipment for training etc you could then use it. I don't know