DC-3 Crashes in Manila

[R-1011]

Plane crashes in Las Piñas, 4 confirmed dead—report (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/metro/view/20091017-230587/Plane-crashes-in-Las-Pias-4-confirmed-deadreport)

MANILA, Philippines – (UPDATE 2) A plane crashed in Las Piñas Saturday, killing four people, according to a radio report, quoting an official of the Ninoy Aquino International Airport.

The DC-3 aircraft crashed into a warehouse in Plaza Quezon, Barangay (village) Aldana, radio dzMM said, citing initial findings by Engineer Bing Lina of NAIA Terminal 1. It was not clear as to what caused the accident.
NAIA authorities were also quoted as saying that four people were confirmed dead. The plane had seven passengers when it left the NAIA general aviation at 12:30 p.m. for a test flight to Palawan province, they added.
As of posting time, the other three passengers have yet to be found.

[Fish & Chips]

RP-C550 was a DC-3 owned and operated by Jerry Juane. It was supposed to fly to Africa on a contract.

The crew were Ben Baculpo (aircraft commander), Benjamin "Boy" Rivera (PIC), and Jaguar Juane (copilot/Jerry's nephew).

[bcgallacher]

I understand this was the last operating DC3 in the Philippines- used like most elderly aircraft here for carrying fish. It used to be a practice to take off using avgas then switch to mogas for the rest of the flight. I worked at NAIA for 4 years -1988 -1992 and witnessed more accidents -fatal and non fatal than in 40 years elsewhere. Mostly it appeared to be mechanical failures - engine failures on overloaded aircraft - in one case with passengers sitting on fishboxes! It is a bit like the interisland ferries - old ,badly maintained and overloaded with profit motive ahead of safety.Things are improving as carriers get more modern equipment but the authority has a poor reputation - like most government regulatory boards here, for underfunding and corruption.This has resulted in the downgrading by the FAA so PAL is unable to put the ordered 777s on the USA flights.

[ArthurBorges]

Still sad to learn the world community will have one less DC-3 from this day forward.

[Eight Ball]

My sincerest condolence to the family. May God give you strength to go through this.

To Capt Rivera who i knew when we met in Air Phil, R.I.P. sir.... you will be sadly missed. :{

[Mysha Da Kat]

Actually, there is one more flyable DC-3 in the Philippines and several more that can be made flyable.

RP-C550 was in bad shape. The owner/operator doesn't have the best reputation around the airport. The guys were working on it almost everyday to prepare it for its African contract. People in the know were betting it would never get to Africa. Others bet it would never get beyond its exit point at PPS.

I understand that the accident flight was only Capt. Rivera's third in that particular aircraft. I don't know how much actual DC-3 time he had. I knew Capt. Ben Baculpo for at least 25 years. He was a nice guy.

The news last night said CAAP had summoned the operator and the maintenance crew. Unless they changed the rules, the operator is responsible for the proper maintenance of the aircraft. But the pilot-in-command is always responsible for determining the airworthiness of the aircraft.

[tail wheel]

Was that the Super DC3 (R4D/C-117) that was mostly parked outside A Soriano Aviation at NAIA?

[RE Koyich]

As in many things, a 'Test Flight,' in the Philippines doesn't necessarily mean the same as it would elsewhere.

Why would a plane on a 'test flight,' have either four or seven people on board, and be bound for an airport 300+ nm away?

May the families of the dead be in our thoughts as they cope with yet another disaster.

[411A]

Two things to realise about DC-3 types.
1. If an engine fails just after takeoff, and the landing gear cannot be retracted, it will not maintain altitude, regardless of weight.

2. Positive hydraulic pressure is required to keep the landing gear retracted (no uplocks) so, no hydraulic pressure, landing gear extends.

The DC-3 is not a transport category aircraft (CAR4b), dispite what some uninformed folks might think.

[Siguarda al fine]

411-A I dont know where you learned your DC-3 technical but I would ask for a refund if I was you. The MLG is not held up by positive hydraulic pressure but by the fluid trapped in the lines when the gear selector is placed in neutral.

[M 0.78]

RP-C550 was not on a test flight when it crashed. It was actually on the first leg of its flight to Africa.

[itsbrokenagain]

"The MLG is not held up by positive hydraulic pressure but by the fluid trapped in the lines "

I think you might find in some books this is deemed positive hydraulic pressure, its the pressure of the fluid trapped in the line keeping it there, lose some pressure she starts to fall, so more pressure must be applied to bring them up and keep them up. This pressure in the line , is just that pressure, so its though of in the positive sense.

I think he does know what he is talking about, just different terms for the same thing.

[Siguarda al fine]

Wrong wrong wrong once the gear is selected up it recieves no input from the system at all its isolated by the gear handle

[Round Engine]

Correct Siguarda al fine, For those of you who are not familiar with the DC-3, look at this photograph as proof (the hydraulic pressure gauges are on the sidewall of the cockpit) :-http://www.airliners.net/photo/AVIAC-(Aerovias-Centroamericanas/Douglas-C-47...-Skytrain/1591070/L/&sid=440565ad08e8867a7f95bde1d7e3534d

It is not possible for the landing gear to automatically extend after it has been retracted and a hydraulic failure occurs, as it is held by a "hydraulic lock", for which reason the selector is kept in the neutral position after retraction. Landing gear hydraulic pressure on both up and down lines is ZERO when the gear is up and the lever positioned in neutral as it should be. Normal cruise position for the selector lever is NEUTRAL, not up.

Further the airplane is equipped with three hydraulic pumps (2 engine driven and one hand pump), in the event of an engine failure/fire, only two aircraft related things can prevent you from raising the landing gear - a) A hydraulic failure following the engine failure (almost completely unlikely, unless the crew fail to follow the engine failure/fire drill (not actuating the engine fuel/oil/hyd oil shut off valve) and hydraulic fluid is lost through lines that are burnt through (they should be covered with fire sleeving, thats an SB)), b) The landing gear pins still being in position. Other than that, only the crew themselves through circumstances in the cockpit, could omit to raise the gear. The Captains briefing before take off, the words should be to the effect of, "if an engine should fail after ...., we will continue the take-off, my first command will be 'gear up'...."

I must ask though, 411a, what relevance has this to the crash of RP-C550?:ugh: Yes, it is true that the DC-3 is not considered a transport category airplane by the FAA and hasn't been at least the late 1940's, as it cannot comply with CAR 4b in all performance respects, but again, what bearing does that have on the crash of RP-C550? Nobody in this discussion implied or said anything to have any relevance to the certification basis of the DC-3?:confused::confused:

Are you trying to score points off this because you THINK you know something about DC-3's? Your "two things" do not appear to relate to the topic at all.

[skycruiser1]

Unreal some folks should stay on the ground....and not be allowed airplanes.