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Melchett01
15th Oct 2009, 12:59
Well if Liabour MP Nick Palmer were to be believed, it would be to get rid of the RAF and RN and invest everything in an Army of UN beret wearing troops.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE DEFENCE BUDGET?


NICK PALMER

Pressure on public finances is concentrating minds over defence spending. The idea of cancelling the Trident project is no longer seen as a hideous betrayal of New Labour, but as a possibly necessary adjustment to financial reality. Equipment problems in Afghanistan are seen, rightly or wrongly, as a reflection of tight budgets. The public is primed for a serious defence review. It’s vital, though, that this is not primarily driven by current economic problems. A major change in defence strategy would still be affecting Britain in the distant future, when the banking crisis will be a fading memory.

Britain’s role in the world

The question of our defence stance is related to the much larger issue of what sort of role Britain should play in today’s world. A curious feature of the parliamentary calendar is an occasional adjournment debate entitled ‘Defence in the World’. This does not refer to concerns about dangers from outer space, an issue which MPs generally leave to Lembit Opik, but to Britain’s military activity around the globe. The debate is generally poorly attended, and traditionally proceeds without a proposal or a vote.

To set the scene for a proper debate, this short piece looks at a basic question: what is the defence budget for? The obvious answer is ‘to defend the United Kingdom’, but in the absence of any plausible threat of invasion for the foreseeable future, that would seem to imply that we barely need armed forces at all.

What about ‘to defend British interests around the world’? Here, the Falklands springs to mind, but it’s such an unusual case that it is difficult to base the entire strategy upon it. How many other British possessions overseas do we still have that somebody might want to invade? And our wider interests, such as protecting British investments, are not really protected by the armed forces. If Morocco were to seize all British companies’ assets, we would deplore their actions, but would we invade Morocco? Hardly.

The actual answer, as implied by the policies of successive governments, seems to be ‘influence world events positively’. The assumption is that what we see as positive for the world (defeat of aggression, support for democracy, and so on) is likely to be good for Britain. This includes efforts to combat terrorism: a major argument advanced for our presence in Afghanistan is that we cannot afford to have a state taken over by the allies of al-Qaeda, since they would soon be offering diplomatic and training cover for terrorist activities in Britain and elsewhere.

If this is the objective, then it follows that it’s a good thing if we ‘punch above our weight’. Although we are only a medium-sized power, we have highly trained armed forces and can intervene effectively around the world.

There is a tendency to decide what we think of this on the basis of the recent examples: Sierra Leone (an unqualified success); Kosovo (an arguable success); Iraq (controversial, to say the least); and Afghanistan (likewise). One can throw in examples of cases where we didn’t intervene and feel that perhaps we should have done: the Congo, where a million died while the world looked on; Darfur, where atrocities against civilians were so common as to drop out of the news.

Setting out criteria

However, the question of whether we should in principle be ready to intervene to help the perceived good guys around the planet is actually separate from the question of whether we’ve recently got it right. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that all future British governments have unerring good judgment on who should be helped. How much military might should we be prepared to put in?

The answer, I think, is threefold:

· We should focus on the types of intervention where we have particular skills. There is likely to be a continuing demand for expert, highly disciplined, highly trained ground troops: we should concentrate on equipping them to the highest standard and for a range of possible roles.

· We should limit ourselves to the budgetary norms of Europe – typically under 2 per cent of GDP compared with our current 2.4 per cent (see, for example, https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html ). There is now no particular reason why we should be uniquely suited to sorting out problems around the globe. We should scale our ambitions to reflect our size.

· We should principally seek to make our expertise available to multinational forces, preferably with a UN mandate. A British brigade able to back up a UN decision will be a very significant asset for the UN for the foreseeable future. But a British brigade that operates without broad international support will get us into difficulty – even if we think it is actually doing a good job.

Avoiding overstretch

We are currently able to deploy one brigade in full-scale conflict on a long-term basis and a second brigade for shorter periods. Anything more leads to manpower overstretch (as recently when the Afghan campaign was ratcheted up before we pulled out of Iraq). This seems a reasonable force to make available, and public opinion would clearly favour investing more rather than less in strengthening its equipment for all eventualities.

If so, though, can one say the same about the Navy and the Air Force? Probably not. It goes against the grain of British tradition to say so, but we have neither plausible reasons for major naval operations (the Falklands excepted), nor likely scenarios where we would want to act alone without the necessary seapower available from allies. The Air Force is in a similar position: it is easy to see it in a ground support role, but the strategic and air superiority roles for which much of the RAF is trained are not likely to be called upon for as far into the future as we can see.

What of Trident? The same applies. It is difficult to think of scenarios where it would be useful, except as an immensely expensive ticket to the top negotiating table. We would contribute more to world peace if we threw it into the Obama basket of Western concessions available if Russia is willing to scale down its forces as well.

A long-term shift

All of this means a long-term shift of spending to the Army (and ground support) from strategic nuclear defence and the Navy and Air Force (even though it may be that the immediate carrier project is now too far advanced to produce useful savings if cancelled). Such a shift would need to be a political decision, and a difficult one. The Chiefs of Staff traditionally resolve rivalries by compromise, and any decision to change the balance of spending radically would meet with resignations and high-profile opposition.

Deciding the overall interest, however, is what politicians are for, and arguably the biggest failure in defence policy in recent years is the absence of a clear sense of overall purpose. We should be able to deploy up to 2 extremely well-equipped brigades in internationally-accepted causes with sufficient naval and air backup, and that should be the limit of our ambitions. To do less is to abdicate any influence on world affairs, which would be the wrong lesson to learn from Iraq (the right lesson is to be sure we are in fact making a positive difference). To do more is to stretch ourselves beyond what we can afford and beyond what the public will, in the long term, support.

TBM-Legend
15th Oct 2009, 13:13
Don't forget we're always fighting the 'last' war...:confused:

ArthurBorges
15th Oct 2009, 13:30
Unlikely anyone will be shooting nukes in the next biggie.

It'll be biological.

A few Trident subs for diplomatic eye candy, um, sure: it's needed.

Western armed forces are principally useful for keeping Third World friendlies in power. That means reconfiguring the whole force posture.

Given the economic austerity ahead, whatever fails to meet that need is imperially pointless and ought to be scrapped in favour of upgraded social welfare measures that will keep our native populations from getting too restless, i.e. seditious.

indie cent
15th Oct 2009, 13:59
The Air Force is in a similar position:... the strategic and air superiority roles for which much of the RAF is trained are not likely to be called upon for as far into the future as we can see.


Awesome! This Labour MP can see into the future. The article mentions "we". - One assumes he has a team of similarly gifted super heroes???

airborne_artist
15th Oct 2009, 14:19
as far into the future as we can see

What a te@pot. No-one even saw the Falklands coming, despite all the MI6 and RN input, and I don't recall Mystic Meg telling us about 9/11, either.

The Helpful Stacker
15th Oct 2009, 15:13
.....but the strategic and air superiority roles for which much of the RAF is trained are not likely to be called upon for as far into the future as we can see.


Glad I'm not the first to pick up on this.

Those 'strategic' roles which aren't currently "likely to be called upon", would they be things such as Strat AT (currently mahooosively over-stretched supporting operations in sandy places)? And this 'air-superiority', will we have any purely air-superiority aircraft left once the Typhoon has fully entered service and how much is 'much of the RAF'? I'd hazard a guess that the lions share of the RAF now days is trained in roles other than air superiority and once the fully multi-role Typhoons have entered service such duties will be 'as well as'.

Aye, fight the last war, thats the thing to do. Just make sure there is plenty of money left to buy votes via employment in the civil service......:{

Melchett01
15th Oct 2009, 16:13
Aye, fight the last war, thats the thing to do. Just make sure there is plenty of money left to buy votes via employment in the civil service......

Not sure about fighting the last war, if Palmer had his way we would be re-visiting Boer war type capabilities and our current intervention in Afghanistan would be more like Carry on up the Khyber.

Anybody know exactly what qualifies Palmer to make such judgements? Apparently he has an interest in Defence, but doesn't appear to be a member of any Defence committees or have answered many questions in the House on it. Interestingly, he appears to be pro-Trident; how does that fit in with his desire to turn the Navy into a toy boat club?

4mastacker
15th Oct 2009, 17:12
Is this the man?

Nick Palmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Palmer)

Don't know if being the cousin of a Senior Officer makes someone one an expert on military matters though.

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2009, 17:31
the strategic and air superiority roles for which much of the RAF is trained are not likely to be called upon for as far into the future as we can see

I think here he means interdiction and not transport.

I would not dismiss what he says too readily. There are many other littoral states that manage perfectly well without strategic power projection. Why do we alone, of the European states want a carrier based fleet? Certainly man of them do have an interdiction capability but seem noticeable reluctant to deploy them. Look at the other Harrier, Tornado or Typhoon equiped air forces; they are not rushing to augment our forces.

rockape2k7
15th Oct 2009, 17:46
There is now no particular reason why we should be uniquely suited to sorting out problems around the globe. :ugh:

Errrr.. great grasp on international relations. How about begining with the high table obligations that are associated with being a P5 member of the UN Security Council...

Why do we alone, of the European states want a carrier based fleet?

France ??? 2nd carrier coming... well at least planning for a 2nd but ultimately hanging on the outcome of our FDR CVF debate.

Ivan Rogov
15th Oct 2009, 18:30
Apart from France. Why do we alone, of the European states want a carrier based fleet?

Italy

Ok, apart from France and Italy. Why do we alone, of the European states want a carrier based fleet?

And Spain

Erm Ok right, apart from France, Italy and Spain. Why do we alone, of the European states want a carrier based fleet?

:O:O:O

Still time to bin them though

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2009, 18:34
And deploy them.

Bag Man
15th Oct 2009, 19:19
Back to first principals and Nick skips over the key issues with some flippancy.

With 95% of our imports arriving by sea, consider what would happen if there was no Navy. (Think food and energy.) Supermarkets with empty shelves and cues at the petrol stations as AQ 'limpet' bulk carriers bound for the UK. Drug problems triple in all major cities as cartels realise that our shores are open and free. The Army called upon to solve civil problems.

Now, to be balanced, we should consider what would happen if there were no RAF. We would not be able to defend against the Russian fleets of Blinders and Backfires coming through the GIUK gap!

See, I am purple on the core issues!



BM

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2009, 19:56
With 95% of our imports arriving by sea, consider what would happen if there was no Navy. (Think food and energy.)

I guess we would have to cope like Iceland, Norway, Germany etc.

as AQ 'limpet' bulk carriers bound for the UK.

Anti-limpet attack measures are more for brown water fleets. If it was that easy they would have tried already.

Drug problems triple in all major cities as cartels realise that our shores are open and free.

What about Europe? Who stops the drugs getting to them?

The Army called upon to solve civil problems. Good idea.

Now, to be balanced, we should consider what would happen if there were no RAF. We would not be able to defend against the Russian fleets of Blinders and Backfires coming through the GIUK gap!

Surely they would have to run the gamut of Icelandic and Norwegian air defence before being engaged by the Irish forces?

Whichever way you look at it, other manage by relying on us. And to a large extent we rely on US as well.

Ali Barber
15th Oct 2009, 20:20
If we had foreseen the Iraq/Afghan conflicts, we would have planned and budgeted for them appropriately. The point is, you don't know what's coming in 15 years when all the kit you've currently got is still in service. Defence is insurance and he's talking 3rd party, not comprehensive.

Archimedes
15th Oct 2009, 20:22
Just as a matter of interest, what's the source of the Palmer article, please?

thunderbird7
16th Oct 2009, 06:43
Iceland gets by without a surface fleet and Air Force due to strategic alliances with a certain other country. As a 'major' world economy, we'd look pretty stupid if we just did what our 'protector' wanted all the time instead of thinking and fighting for ourselves.

Errrrr... hang on a minute? Just got to wag my poodle tail...

Not_a_boffin
16th Oct 2009, 09:18
Ali B - spot on!