View Full Version : Jeppesens or Daps?
Hello everyone, I'm about to do my first instrument rating renewal. The Jepps I used for my initial haven't been amended for over a year now. Is there a place I could update this or will I have to buy the whole thing again? Looking at around $500 just for the charts
Also, considering buying Daps but I haven't used these before. Daps are a lot cheaper to buy ($95) and I am a little tight on money. I know this is really going to sound bad......but would it be possible to print the plates that I need from the air services website and use it in flight? I sound like such a cheapskate. :}
This will only be used for the renewal, it will be back to collecting dust on the book shelf after that. I won't for flying IFR for a while yet but would be handy to have a few renewals under my belt when the time comes.
Hope someone can help and thanks in advance.
AussieNick
14th Oct 2009, 14:40
do not change from DAPS to Jepps or vica versa, they are different in a few key areas of their layout that could be dangerous if your used to one format and not the other.
Since you said that your jepps are out of date by almost a year it will be easier to call Jepp australia and see if they can send out a ammendment package to suit, either a brand new set of plates or the years worth of updates.
Aussie
14th Oct 2009, 17:46
Id stick with the Jepps. Also, for my IR i used photocopies of the real ones because i also had no cash... know the feeling my friend, dont worry many of us have been there done that!
biggles7374
14th Oct 2009, 22:46
Whatever works!!
If you use DAPS remember that they are part of the AIP and you will need to buy current ERCs and ERSA in addition to subscribing to the AIP document to have all the information you require to carry.
If you intend to do instrument flying throughout the year just remember that the AIP documents are replaced regularly throughout the year and will need to be re-purchased and these costs soon add up to a considerable amout.
Yes JEPPs cost $500 for a complete new set but that includes updates of all charts, ERSA and the AIP for the 12 months.
I prefer Jepps and as has been said previously you get used to using the system, changing back to DAPs is a nightmare.
NAMPS
14th Oct 2009, 23:06
I agree that it is preferrable that you don't change services. The layout is different and it is quite easy to misread information using an unfamiliar format. This is especially the case if you haven't done any instrument time - it's one less hassle you need.
You should call Jepps Aust and quote your customer number to get appropriate amendments. I don't think it will be necessary to get a new service.
twodogsflying
14th Oct 2009, 23:15
Every 2 crew operator in the country specifies Jeps in their ops manual.
If you will only ever fly single pilot then DAPS are ok.
If you want to go into Regionals or Airlines, the Jeps is the ONLY answer.
neville_nobody
15th Oct 2009, 00:15
for my IR i used photocopies of the real ones because i also had no cash
Be aware that is illegal. You have to either have the original chart or a printout of the jepview. I got busted by CASA for it even though I had the originals in the bag!
biggles7374
15th Oct 2009, 00:43
neville
I hear what you are saying for charts
.....do you know if that is true also for DAP plates, CARS, CAOs, AIP etc that are freely downloadable from the net. Charts (WAC, VNC, VTC, ERC, TAC) are not
.
Just I don't see a copywrite statement.
Biggles
neville_nobody
15th Oct 2009, 00:58
Last I heard on this was that you could use the online CAR's as your database. If you use hard copies you have to have a amendment service and sign off the amendments.
The issue isn't copyright it's just that you are using the chart to navigate so you have to use the legal chart that is current for that airport/approach. A photocopy of the original doesn't suffice. I used to photocopy the ones I used regularly as they kept getting ripped up, but apparently that is a no no.
As for the DAPs off the net I'm not sure. That could be the same as Jepview I suppose if the government keeps them up to date online. Probably best read the fine print on the website.
ksa5223
15th Oct 2009, 01:03
I have seen lots of people just print them from the air services website. No problem at all. Just print them off and save your money you would have wasted on DAP's for the Jepp set when you can afford to keep a set and afford to keep it up to date.
Just crosscheck the dates on the charts to the current set that should be in the flying school.
Thank you all for the responses. I'll give Jepps Australia a call tomorrow.
Mach E Avelli
15th Oct 2009, 13:35
Neville N this is a genuine question. What regulation did CASA invoke to bust you for using photo-copied charts? The reason I ask is because I am trying to convince my current tight-arsed employer that JeppView should be available to all to update their documents before every flight if need be.
Breach of copyright is probably not the issue, as the organization does subscribe to Jeppesen and holds several volumes plus one inaccessible terminal with JeppView - it simply expects pilots to photocopy what they need, rather than have the library copies out.
So I am not looking for the copyright laws, but a CAR or CAO that says navigation documents and charts must be originals. Can't find.
Just gave them a call and they said they will only send out the last 5 amendments.
rmcdonal
16th Oct 2009, 08:47
Just gave them a call and they said they will only send out the last 5 amendments.
Oh they found my nav bag. :E
XX-ANY
18th Oct 2009, 04:13
Just curious what are some of the guys outside of RPT using? RFDS, Surveillance Australia, AMSAR etc...
Mr. Hat
18th Oct 2009, 05:38
Step 1. Print off the charts you need plus TERMINAL.
Step 2. Look at the money in your wallet.
Step 3. Go and get an iphone with the money saved.
Alternatively borrow someone elses for the day.
What are DAPS?:}
ravan
18th Oct 2009, 07:17
RFDS Qld Section - Jepps
Captain Nomad
18th Oct 2009, 12:28
RFDS Westops - Jepps
tmpffisch
18th Oct 2009, 12:41
I bought my Jepps of an ex-RFDS pilot. South Eastern division.
Peter Fanelli
18th Oct 2009, 17:29
Alternatively borrow someone elses for the day.
Did that once, wouldn't you know it, the plate the examiner wanted to quiz me on before we went flying was missing from the set.
ryda you say your plates have been on the shelf since doing your rating???
If you aren't using them to fly approaches and keep the rating current you might be in for a surprise. Might be an interesting renewal.
As for having a few renewals under your belt, wouldn't be worth the space in the log book if your not getting some IF time to back it up.
Five renewals and five hours of IF is not going to cut it at an interview.
Mr. Hat
18th Oct 2009, 23:23
the plate the examiner wanted to quiz me on before we went flying was missing from the set.
Bloody Murphy's law again. I could just imagine that one happening. That cold feeling of a serious f*&k up comes over you.
You' ve got to wonder what the chances are. And how uncle Murphy is always waiting to surprise you!
Got on the plane once to go to a sim with a checkie not known for a sense of humour and realised I'd left my plates on the desk at home. Ouch:ugh:.
FRQ Charlie Bravo
19th Oct 2009, 12:11
I went to sit the IREX using the company's DAPs... Sitting up in the Kimberley sweating it out due to the heat (literal and figurative) I should have been able to assume that the DAPs EAST I'd page-checked the week before would still have the Cooma-Snowy Mountains approach plates right? Wrong, another pilot borrowed them as she knew she'd need them when she went away to do her renewal in Canberra. Damn damn double damn. Yep, I got the question; I got it wrong; and I failed by 2%.
No hard feelings to the other pilot (who I imagine will eventually find this thread... heya, CSD:8).
FRQ CB