Singapore Airlines

[teto]

Hi all, I would love to have some info from Singapore pilots. I would like to apply and, once this crisis is over, hopefully join Singapore Airlines.

Basically it seems to me like one of the best airlines around that still gives you a full career, and I would like to know more about it.

Is it still a good place to be?
Is it possible for a foreigner to get upgraded in a reasonable number of years?
How is the lifestyle for an expat over there?
I tried to apply online on their website, but it just says that they don't need anyone at the moment and I couldn t find an online form or anything, is this the only way to apply?

Thanks very much in advance, please feel free to add any comment or suggestions thanks!

[Fly3]

They are still not renewing any expat contracts and will not be doing so until well into next year at the earliest. I met a captain whos contract is due for renewal next March and he has already been told that he will not bee retained. From your post it would appear that you are thinking of joining as a FO since you ask about ungrading. Mainline SIA have not taken any "non locals" on as FO's for a long time as far as I am aware, however the SIA Cargo Division might be different. Good luck with your search.

[winglet_fever]

Last i heard, there's 70 SOs on training in mainfleet and cadet production line hasn't stopped. Over in Cargo, there's 10% excess FOs and another 10% of SOs waiting to check out.

For the SIA group, local FOs make up 90 to 95% of FO population. Hope that helps.

[powerstall]

And if ever they do start re-hiring expat captains, there is a possibility that some former expats will be on priority. :ok:

[thornycactus]

there's 70 SOs on training in mainfleet and cadet production line hasn't stopped. Over in Cargo, there's 10% excess FOs and another 10% of SOs waiting to check out.
That means, till now, there's a surplus! In another words, NO recruitment.

And if ever they do start re-hiring expat captains, there is a possibility that some former expats will be on priority.
Yes! very true!

[teto]

ok..not very good news then, I understand the general attitude from the company is to favour locals i.e. no expat FO to promote to CPT..

[Metro man]

no expat FO to promote to CPT..

As far as I know no "expat" f/o. ie local conditions for everyone. No housing allowance, school fees or any other perks the expat captains get. Job security should be greater however. Long wait for an upgrade 7-10 years.

Good place to live BUT expensive. I doubt you'll put two kids in private school and run a car on an f/os pay. You will need to live like the locals to get by.

EMIRATES/QATAR/ETIHAD might be worth looking at, lots of complaints from the pilots (look on the ME forum) but they are hiring and offer an expat package.

[parabellum]

Long wait for an upgrade 7-10 years.

You have to be kidding! From basic CPL to captain of a jet in 7 to 10 years is rocket assisted!

[teto]

Thanx a lot metroman. Ya I didn' t mean the contracts, just wanted to know if whenever they start recruiting again, they will consider non singapore pilots for FO positions. Yes job security is a must indeed, I have a secure job which I won' t leave for any non secure one, that s for sure, I know how lucky I am considering the economic situation of the world! It s just that I can' t see myself doing this for another 30 years and, from the outside, Singapore looks like a great long haul option. I have learnt though that in this business the outside view and the inside one are very often far away from each other! This is why I am here asking. Thanx again

[Metro man]

You have to be kidding! From basic CPL to captain of a jet in 7 to 10 years is rocket assisted!

In Australia certainly sport, other places can be quicker. We have a few 6000 hr captains flying A320s, one got upgraded at just over 3000hrs TOTAL time. One of our f/os who joined with a bare CPL less than four years ago is doing his upgrade soon. 7-10 years was an estimate for an experienced f/o joining at the moment, and is what would be expected at Emirates (4000total/2000 medium jet minimum on joining) as well.

[winglet_fever]

if you haven't noticed, SIA's aircrafts are all heavy jets. 4 to 5 years for command in lighties are also not unheard of in this region.

8 to 12 years for fresh CPL and 5 to 7 for experienced direct entry FO sounds pretty much right as SIA doesn't have narrow bodies for command upgrade like most airlines. however, don't think i've heard of any expat FO being upgraded in the last 5 to 7yrs.

There are still a couple of guys in Cargo holding expat FO terms and job security is an issue as there are locals waiting for their contact to expire.

[parabellum]

7-10 years was an estimate for an experienced f/o joining at the moment,


Sorry, missed that bit, I was thinking basic CPL to Command on a widebody/heavy.

[teto]

to be honest time to command doesn' t mean too much I think, as we all know everything changes so quickly...if you were to join tomorrow and be told to be on a command course in 7 years,it might well become 20 with the next downturn!..the real problem i see here is that from what you guys say they don' t seem too open towards employing non locals for FO (and I would guess DEC too) positions...

[winglet_fever]

think cost. in rough numbers, housing allowance is SGD4k and up to 4k for kids' education. that's many thousands cheaper per month to have a local to fill the spot than an expat. their cadet-to-FO factory churns out about 100 FOs per year. do note - the term 'local' have a few meanings. Singaporean, Malaysians, Indonesians or other nationalities that are on local terms without time based contracts.

duration to command has stayed relatively stable over the years, even so for the past few down turns. perhaps because SQ still maintain a small ratio of expats to fill the captain slots. the 12 months command training duration for all upgrades also mean training can't stop as they cannot project crew number required that distant away. if fat trimming is needed, contract renewal stops while training continues. this will still work until all seats are manned by locals.

and since i'm still seated on the right, i sure hope there will always be expats in the company as it means command slots are still available during the good and bad times!

[slayerdude]

teto.. check your pm

[slayerdude]

1) yes you will have a chance to be a co-pilot... but on local terms. the co-pilot ranks were nationalise in 1996. among the co-pilot ranks we have british, australians, kiwis, hong kongers, indians, thai and the biggest group the malaysians. All fo's are on the same terms but it will vary if you are on the A380. However when it comes to fleet or seat upgrades the is a split between nationals(s'porean) and non-nationals.
There is a s'porean first policy... it's fair as it is their airlines after all. But it’s a keepsake job till you retire unless you screw up.

2) yes you will have a chance to get a seat upgrade. The ab-initio guys need 5000hrs, 1000 sectors and ATPL and 8years on the right minimun, however if you have previous operational flying experince the same requirements apply as your previous flying experince is considered and qualify time is minimun 5years on the right.

3) however that is what you need to qualify, one has to be selected to change seats, and the selection process is akin the astronaut selection. Its not impossible but all base checks, line checks are scored and a non technical evaluation of the potential candidate is carried out over 5years to ascertain the candidates commandability. And there are plenty of non-nationals that got upgrades....it's just tedious

4) as a co-pilot you will have to get a sporean ATPL as the CAAS does not do direct conversions for co-pilot hires.. only direct conversion for Captains. There is an equalvalency paper you can write, think it's 80 questions multiple choice to get the sporean atpl, if not it's the CAAS 7- 7 navigation subjects...

so all is not lost... they will start hiring... and it is a ok safe gig... long term....


so hope this helps....

[winglet_fever]

teto, i've missed out about Cargo. there are some FOs on expat terms in Cargo but not for long. they were employed couple of years back to start off the company when SIA mainfleet and Cargo split up.

[teto]

ei guys really thanks a lot for your info and heads up..we shall all see what the future holds! with the economy rising again hopefully there will be good possibilities for many..for the moment I' ll continue with my 4-5 sectors a day and 80-90 monthly hrs!

[bmwm5]

hi guys....any idea of the payscale for SQ f/os?thank you