CPL and IR on the DA40 and DA42

[adlington1234]

Hi,

I am about to commence CPL and IR training in the UK and unsure of where and when to start the training. I have looked at BCFT and FLYING TIME AVIATION so far and was quite impressed with both setups. BCFT appears to be extremley professional and well established in the aviation world and based within a busy commercial airfield at BOURNEMOUTH. Yesterday i visited FLYING TIME AVIATION based at SHOREHAM, again a professional setup however feeling a little more intimate and on a much smaller scale. The training there is on the DA40 and DA42 TWINSTAR / EFIS, FADEC, GARMIN..... I was massively impressed with the aircraft and the idea of using these systems since most of my hours building was C152 and PA28 ARCHER. I was a little concerned however with commencing training on these systems rather than on the conventional aircraft as those offered by BCFT ?

Although persuing an airline career does anyone have any advice regarding the training and feeling amongst potential employers if all CPL and IR is conducted on such aircraft as DA40 and 42....?

One more thing,,,, i am wishing to start training ASAP and have everything ready to start, my only concern with commencing now in OCTOBER / NOVEMBER is the weather. Do students generaly have any issues with starting CPL and IR this time of year ??

Look forward to hear any response ,,,:ok:

[Shunter]

Weather can be a problem at any time of the year. You've got 3yrs of exam credit, so just get on with it. Ice is the biggest obstacle during winter, but chances are by the time you've done the CPL bit it'll be summer again.

I seem to be less "vinegar stroke" than others about G1000 aircraft. Whilst they are obviously a big step forward, I'm perfectly comfortable with a 6 pack for instrument flying so not particularly bothered either way. Perhaps it's just the way my brain works. That said, I did get mildly excited the first time I flew something with SVT in the states.

I sincerely doubt airlines will give 2 hoots about you having "cut your teeth" on steam gauges. You won't be seeing too much of them flying airliners.

[skyhigher]

It makes no difference what you do the IR and CPL on at the end of the day, at least in the eyes of the employer.

The da40 is not efis (i assume its not) so you will still get time on 'steam' instruments as part of your cpl. Why make your life more difficult during the IR by flying something with dials, when you could fly with the G1000? I completed my IR on the DA42, and then moved straight back to 'steam' dials for my first 'real' job. Without doubt the G1000 will help you during the IR, for situational awareness and many other things.

It did not prove an issue moving back to dials, and really if it does you should not be working as a pilot. Flying instruments is much the same, although the 'scan' works a little different for glass.:ok:

I work on both types from time to time, and although i prefer working with EFIS, it is always good to go back to dials and it does improve your scan skills.

As for time scales of completing and the weather, get used to it running late. Remember that in aviation people always advertise the minimum required, like time and money. Add 20% to cost, and 30% to training times- that is more realistic!

If you have your atpl subjects completed, then you will know all about how the weather can be in the winter - especially in the UK! Variable at best - but remember it will provide good experience of different weather conditions, including icing!

best of luck.....

[A and C]

Shunter Quote:-

I sincerely doubt airlines will give 2 hoots about you having "cut your teeth" on steam gauges. You won't be seeing too much of them flying airliners.

Just as well he will have a few years sitting next to sad old luddites like me in case of a total electrical failure, Because if that happend he won't be seeing too much on the glass screens.

[flyboy1818]

The DA40 is g1000 and all CPL/IR training is done on G1000 aircraft, the non G1000 DA40's are generally used for self fly hire or PPL. I think its a very good set up and a great deal for the money, I can't think of anything worse than spending the first 20 hours of a CPL on a warrior or dare I say it a C152.

[A and C]

The trouble is that you have probably spent too much time in aircraft that have had next to no investment and maintenance and so the fading paint, old avionics and carpets that smell as if some sort of pond life in in residence, in short you have been ripped off!

I could show you places that do invest in the aircraft and PA28's & C152's that are very nice to fly. Clearly you don't understand the qualitys of these aircraft and the skills that they could teach you.

PS take a look at the Airways Flying Club's latest PA28 avionic fit!

G-ODAK Glass Refit in Flyer Magazine (http://www.airwaysflyingclub.co.uk/about-us/news-and-events/g-odak-g600.aspx)

[moggiee]

One thing to remember about using the DA42 is that it has a much better first time pass rate for CPL and IR than more "traditional" aeroplanes. Here at The Flight Centre (Wolverhampton), we found a great improvement in first time IR pass rates when we replaced our Seneca with the DA42 - and we're not alone in finding that to be the case.

Using a G1000 DA40 for the non-complex parts of the CPL makes for a nice, smooth transition to the DA42. We also run diesel PA28s but have found that customers much prefer the DA40 to the Piper.

[adlington1234]

Many thanks for all replies.

Has anyone had any dealings with FLYING TIME AVIATION based at SHOREHAM ?

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Yes, I fly with them currently.

Have experience flying their Pa28 Cadet, DA40's and C172.

The a/c are of good quality, compared to other a/c around the airfield (I've had experience), the DA40's/DA42's generally (all schools) have been known to break down a bit with their ECU's etc, but these a/c are used quite a bit. Might be worth checking if they have more than x1 DA42, I don't think they have, so worth noting when it comes to doing your IR, for any back-up a/c to use. Their C172 is great :ok:

Saying that, I'm considering at some point to convert to the glass, to decide if it's what I want for the IR. Their DA40's are both analogue and glass and it doesn't cost much to convert to glass any how.

I've had a trip as a passenger in their DA42 to France the other year, a fun experience and I checked out their new DA42 sim the other month.... but not as good as the real thing, graphics are quite basic lol, but at the end of the day, it's for sim instrumentation practice and not really to do with graphics.

I'm not sure where I'll be doing my CPL/ME/IR, I might do it at Shoreham, either Flying Time or another, but I'm more inclind to go some where which has more of a proven record with the CPL/IR, this school is quite new to it still and I'm thinking more towards that of an international airport, to blend in with the commercial traffic - each to their own.

It depends what you want, but for me, it's a professional qualification, costs a lot too, so I want to ensure that all my boxes are ticked when I make my decision ie. being in a professional environment.

I'm considering BCFT, PAT, Bristol etc, but this is a few years away yet. I'm going to hang fire until I get those ratings out of the way.

[adlington1234]

BCFT does appear to have the edge regarding training facilities and its place within the CPL/IR world, i would love to convert on to the DA42 at some point however am 80% sure i will be going with BCFT mainly for the reputation.....

[Cirrus_Clouds]

I'm also keen to convert to the DA42 at some point, it's a nice bit of kit, but I do ask myself if that "first" job will be on glass and not analogue....

Everyone talks about the airlines as their goal, but this may not happen immediately and might be some way off in the future, so you've got to ask yourself what's best to train on, to increase your chances of "all" types of work.

e.g. I've seen some where that Ryanair use a 737-200 sim for their inital sim tests, so surely an analogue configuration would seem more wise but other airlines/companies maybe different.

[adlington1234]

I think doing an MCC/JOC will assist with adapting to the glass instrumentation. I assume the majority of people doing the CPL and IR are looking to progress to the airlines at some point in the future or a charter company however not to be expected overnight,,,,,I still cant help feeling that progressing through the conventional dials and having a full understanding of them at this earlier stage will only mean when faced with the glass cockpit it will appear so much easier ?

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Yes the MCC/JOC would assist with the Glass, but would still be worth converting to a glass a/c at an earlier date, maybe for the odd hour building, to see what it's like.

If you've done most of your hour building already and on the analogue, you might as well do your CPL on the analogue, as you've already prepared yourself to an extent.

[flyboy1818]

The trouble is that you have probably spent too much time in aircraft that have had next to no investment and maintenance and so the fading paint, old avionics and carpets that smell as if some sort of pond life in in residence, in short you have been ripped off

Thanks for that A and C, been flying for the last ten years, I have flown aircraft all over the world at many different establishments. I have flown at least 10 aircraft types, some of which are not available on the civvy market. The Diamond aircraft at Shoreham are an amazing piece of kit and I know that many of the other flying schools are simply jealous. The choice is simple, you fly your CPL on a £20,000 aircraft or a £250,000 aircraft, the price is the same, go figure