EK at the abyss

[Ticlak]

Guys, the development of EK is as predicted for a Middle East company: The company´s management is converting slowly from expertise towards local wannabe manager´s who prefer to believe in naive visions instead of facts. Expats have been moved in the second row – named manager but degraded a henchman.
Persons like AAR would never become a job higher than a clerk in the real airline business, but in EK quality only matters if you are not a Local, as everywhere in the Middle East as we all know.
None of those guys would have been able to come out of there Bedouin sandals without the skills and help from educated expats.
Unfortunately skillful, educated locals are a minority. The majorities behaves arrogant, lethargic and respect less, they jumped on the bandwagon of EK ´s and Dubai´s previous success respectively. Stupid pride on something they never would have been able to build or create let alone to manage.
EK Management insidious expanded in an unprofitable, bloated bureaucracy – why – additional posts (Presidents, Vice Presidents etc..) had been implemented in front of the real working employee´s, and inevitable they felt being ready to be on the wheel, but only steer, like the play station. If things are going wrong – reset? Unfortunately impossible? Did a mistake? Locals - Never! So – Expats –> Slave move away the reef..
The most important for regimes like this is the propaganda. EK is investing Millions in positive press, advertisement, the show must go on – everything is great, EK is great, everyone wants to work for EK, the whole world loves EK… Hollywood – Bollywood EK.
What is left? An Airline once brilliant, safe and successful took course to the abyss. Only a quick clear out of all this third class pseudo managers would give the chance to stay in the bride light.
The facts:
·EK is only a safe airline on the paper, in reality EK is unsafe: Fatigue, the reported issue No.1, is considered “low risk”. Crew are disturbed in there crew rest time, by telephone calls, or forced to check roster changes at times they should rest. If not done “Absent days, or warning notes” are the consequence. Rosters with 90hrs and constant day-night-day shifting are regular.
·It is UAE law that the employer has to organize transport for the employee. EK takes advantage: Pickup for Pilots 2:15 to 2:30 before departure time (longest drive s about 35 min), but the official Check in time is 60 min prior departure, by that time is the crew already on the flight deck. Again fatigue is not respected.
·Wearing a hat is more important than being properly rested.
·EK does not keep contracts and agreements.
·Leave is not paid; “Online Course” Duty has to be done on OFF days – no pay
·EK treats expats as second class, local employee´s have higher salaries for the same work
·Operability of the Aircraft is often compromised or manipulated, due to not enough engineer´s and time given for maintenance
·Pilots and Cabin Crew are treated like children with low respect and a threatening management style.
·EK has access to all home telephone connections of company provides accommodation, even Capt Mobiles (calls; SMS)
·Company provided accommodation is under surveillance of EK Security, every visitor is reported to EK, camera´s are installed everywhere – it is like living in a prison. Security guards have keys to the apartments. Crew found themselves surprised by those guards in their own privacy.
·EK is not a trustworthy airline – not for the employee´s and not for the customers i.e. how often do we experience faulty equipment presented to the customers, or not enough catering – but the crew has to take the complains and pretend that the fault just had happened
What to do:
Guys we should react as professionals even the company treats us unprofessional. Not below our standards please – we are no retards: Let´s use effective tools:
·International authorities have reporting systems – anonymous as well if you like
·No discretions out of home base
·Think about discretion anyway, bad or unrealistic planning to safe costs of a third pilot are not unforeseen circumstances. You take from that moment all the responsibility and risk – for what?
·Fatigue – go to the clinic, if your condition is not respected properly take a non EK Aviation Examiner and report to ICAO/IATA (Website – mail).
·Record all the Tel call with EK (they do the same).
·Even EK makes regulations as they are needed legal - 22hrs? Is it safe? Fatigue? 4hrs – hot tarmac - via apron switching aircraft, is that safe to start a 14 hrs operation?
·Take a lawyer or minimum a colleague as evidence for any office visit.
·And for all – contact your national press – keep them informed – remember it is about your survival – there is no EK Team – we cannot trust EK anymore!
No more ËK KEEP DISCOVERING :ok:

[puff m'call]

So very very true!!

Well done Ticlak I agree with you. :ok:

[mensaboy]

There is nothing untruthful in the above post. New joiners should take it to heart.

[screwballburling]

Ticlak

A good post and you have my sympathy.

However, what did you expect from these people? You are working for :mad:gs FFS!. They are greedy. They will never keep to an agreement. never. they cant help it, it is in their nature. They dont really give a rodents a:mad: about yours or anyone else's welfare and if the rules allowed it, you would be doing double the hours etc.

Leave or continue to be shafted.

[777vs330]

Well, I thought they were kidding when they said SIA was their model to go after. Looks like not only did they take the business model, they have perfected the management style too. ( I especially found great similarity wrt attitude towards crew ).
Sorry to digress so much, but the one big issue staring at my mates over in EK: FATIGUE.
Let's hope that they (the management) won't learn it the hard way. My heartfelt respect for folks holding up nicely still by maintaining present safety level.

[c46r]

Sounds like Gulf Air, 30 years ago!!!!!

[jammyk]

Cons
Change to reserve rosters – all month
Supposedly "voted" in some years ago – by whom? A “secret” ballot, the results are amazingly exactly what the company would like us to vote for.
Now only one day of reserve duty allocated at a time (including days off). This means greater flexibility for them but no planning ability for us. For 35 days straight.
The Great “Cost Neutral Pay adjustment”
No credit for leave. Take 15 days Annual Leave and have 90hrs squeezed into the other 15 days of the month.
Instructors screwed over money in 2004, resulting in the competent core leaving and being replaced in many cases with, well...
SFIs. An even cheaper option to undermine the original training regime.
Recruitment team who were screwed a few years back – again over money.
Uniforms to the sim. That :mad:****** decided on the uniforms for ground duties rule.
2004 max days off rule. Was quietly ignored after a few months when Adel forgot he’d brought it in.
2008 max days off in a row. He remembered last year and brought this in again.
2009 max days off and max in a row. This time he finally made it stick.
No 3% salary increment in 2009. One of the bigger lies they tell to prospective new-joiners, leaving them in the belief they’ll get a guaranteed 3% increment to the base rate every year.
No bonus paid in 2009 to lower rung employees (that’s us).
Augmented rest abolished in First Class cabin and moved to business class. This policy was only rescinded due to the wave of ASRs submitted.
Temporary accommodation up to 12-15 months in some cases
Sign on time is one hour before the flight. Pick-up is 2:15 before. The computer “says” you’re required to complete your paperwork and leave the briefing room 20min before the legal commencement of duty.
Warning letters for anyone who’s late for the pick-up. See above.
Sign off time – no 30min after arrival. This was removed as an inconvenience in 2004 when the JFK flights began. Crew are still expected to do their own paperwork though because they sacked the office guys who used to do it. Park, set brake, sign off. Wait 30min for the “high-lifter” then stand around waiting up to a quarter of an hour for our own bags at HQ.
Sackings/Enforced “resignations” eg. the KL “assault”, Accra, Manchester and of course EK407.
DECs and negotiated pay rates. Well not anymore!
TCAS’s uniforms spanking
No transport for rostered ground duties such as the management meeting despite the contract.
Pooling of transport
No meat import for crew (does not apply to passengers)
Factoring 1 – thanks to TCAS
Factoring 2
The CRC fiasco – 340, 777, 380. Ongoing ASRs due to lack of sleep quality. The fact the crew rest is at the other end of the aircraft from the cockpit seems to have been quietly over-looked.
Training for 10 sectors for new guys, reduction in sims
The advent of Pelesys and requirements but no internet provided in hotels unless it’s free anyway. Then it’s “provided.”
Allowances decreasing or disappearing
Cheap, second-rate LPC EFBs and LIDO charts. EK used to pay for Jeppesen.
Only one set of area charts for two pilots (to save money).
The baggage fiasco after your flight
The recent change to our overtime rate thresholds brought in as the rostered flying per month began to creep up. Cleverly worded by Ed. We fly more hours in ULR flight so they should pay us less. This has effectively negated the pay rise of the year before which is, of course, the whole idea. They needed pilots and so they offered a pay rise. Now they do not need pilots and so they take it back.
Utilities and DEWA. Another blatant breach of contract.
Gas regulators being applied to all cylinders. The idea is, the reg slows down the flow of gas and they save money. You get to pay for the regulator too.
The latest upgrade letter – 3000hrs
Seoul flights now two-crew following a magical re-working of the flight time. Keep filing those ASRs. Pros
The free oven mitt.
Gold stars for the trainers.
The offer to freeze our Prov Fund payments so we can use the money instead. (The catch is that they’ll freeze theirs too.) Coming soon
1000hrs a year
Utilities cost increase. The price of elec and water WILL go up, significantly, just like the sun will rise.
Rental cap
No CONT fuel
***** ******* cap is next, if and when they think of it. I tried to post this as a separate thread but was unable to since it's a new registration.

[411A]

Sounds like Gulf Air, 30 years ago!!!!!

Same with SVA...except that they have much deeper pockets...:}
'New' guys to the middle east just have to realise...we have all seen it before.:rolleyes:
Several times over.

[411A]

There is only one difference between EK and SVA.

Singapore has a viable economy

SVA=Saudi Arabian.
Very deep pockets.

[flaphandlemover]

@ all new joiners to the Middle East.

Not only think twice, don't come at all, if you have any other oportunity....

The UAE is a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY!!!!!

Choose wise before you think to come here...

The previous posts say it all...

100% TRUE!!!!!!

EK LOST IT!!!! and what is their way to fix it?

GIVE THEM MORE SH:mad:!!!!!!

Nobody gives a SH:mad: about EK anymore... we are all on our way out...

As said before... when the SH:mad: hits the fan... WE WILL BE THE ONE LAUGHING @ AAR and AS....

The best part about it... SIT AND WAIT... IT WILL BE SOON!!!!!

[TheFalcon]

What you are saying is currently reflected on the onboard service. As someone frequently using EK without being an employee I can say really that EK is at the abyss in inflight services. Most of the cabin crew I see today seem to be a bunch of lousy youths picked off the streets. Way to go EK!!

[oz in dxb]

Just touching on the subject of degrading cabin service, pursers have been given (photocopied (money saving)) piece of paper discribing how to lift the service standards.

What it basically says is that purser have to put the "SPARKLE" back into the cabin crew. Pursers in this letter have also been advised to "INSPIRE" the pilots!

EK know that we are NOT the award winning airline anymore. The likes of Malaysian, Cathay, Asiana, Singapore are way ahead of us. So they are making the pursers to uplift all of the crew and get the sparkle back into our lives. Of course this is to be done without the help of the company.

Knowing that the top 5 airlines with the best cabin service are Asian airlines, I guess that we will be employing more from Asia.

So when you walk into the cabin crew breifing room and your purser jumps up and gives you a big hug......... you are being inspired!

Oz out

[Jet II]

So when you walk into the cabin crew breifing room and your purser jumps up and gives you a big hug......... you are being inspired!


I dont mind if it's a female purser but can we opt out of it's a man? :ooh:

[oz in dxb]

'fraid not Jet, it's written down in photocopied black ink that the pilots MUST be inspired.

Oz

[Ahad Adump]

Ticlak and Jammyk

2 of the best EK related posts ever. I agreee with everything and definitely could not have said it so well.

Jam's 1st post, nicely done man.

Where do you get the no accident report from GCAA for the KAL interview?

[NoJoke]

Well looking up from the bottom of the Abyss here in QR, I can only see things getting worse for the next year or so, until there is an upturn in World financial confidence (which seems to be on the way)

How long is it going to take your Management to realise that if they employ more Indonesians, Malaysians, Indians etc etc the more pliable the workforce will be. I am not getting at those Nationalities before people start leaping up and down like drunken frogs on a hot griddle.

I am merely stating that if an individual is getting 5 - 10 times more than they can get at home, why would they rock the EK boat?? It's the same here I'm afraid. Management piles more disrespect and insults on us because they know these people will not leave. (Having said that people ARE leaving in dribs and drabs)

Good luck boys, and continue with your excellent standards.

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Hmmmmmmm. I was told by several friends that live in Riyadh/Dubai, that I am in a 3rd world country, and I would be foolish if I didn't jump at the chance to move to DBX.

I will find out, as they told me I am going to DBX ASAP.

cliff

[ironbutt57]

Enjoy DXB Cliff...much safer than YIP!!!:ok: (except for the driving)

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Lost my YIP (DTW) job in Dec, and have been in NBO since March. My friends tell me DBX will be better.

I will find out soon, inshalla.

I am especially looking forward to better internet. It is expensive, slow, technically a pain in the butt, and unreliable here in NBO.

cliff
NBO

[145qrh]

Just about spat my coffee out at that one...

[fjordviking]

Let me put it this way. I think you will in for a surprise after your first encounter with Etisalat in Dubai, and it will not be of the pleasant kind.

Please post after you get here and let us know how that high speed connection
is working out for you.:eek:

Fjordviking

[ironbutt57]

Strange few years back they were fine down the road in AUH..

[Lamyna Flo]

Let me put it this way. I think you will in for a surprise after your first encounter with Etisalat in Dubai, and it will not be of the pleasant kind.

As has been said many, many times on this forum before, you can tell people about the reality of life in DXB (or DBX, in a parallel universe) till you're blue in the face but there's none so blind as those who will not see.

Speaking as someone who uses the internet a lot here in the Dark Heart, to communicate with mates in DXB, I rather think we have the better deal given what I've heard from them. No VPNs required, for a start. Oh, and my connection speed is usually between 1 and 2mbps, so I don't know what our friend atpcliff is using...

[max magic]

Good posts by jammyk and ticlak, sums up working here in a nutshell

18 months here now ... seriously pissed off and activley looking for job back in europe, this place is just shocking !

To new wannabe new joiners .. SERIOUSLY READ AND DIGEST POSTS BY JAMMYK AND TICLAK

I can understand if you've been layed off and need a salary .. fair enough ! but unless you are in that situation dont even consider coming here ..

Max

[RoyHudd]

Or for my friends unfortunate enough to be working for the SOB Brigade. Life is extremely unpleasant, reportedly. Caveat emptor.

[flyinghero41]

Oh my god....
It must be really horrible to work for EK. Why are we guys still here?
We must be all losers? Lets go home!!!

[Schibulsky]

hope it was sarcasm...otherwise the one thing you might lose by staying is dignity...:uhoh:
Don't get me wrong, its your own decision or the lack of alternatives that keeps you here...but please don't mock people who cannot stand this sh!thole anymore:=
...and now back to packing for the move...:ok:

[JB10]

Hi guys,

Interesting Thread.

I have a friend who's trying to get into EK, because he thinks it is a quick command.

Anyone in the know help with time to command joining with 4000hrs?

(I have tried everything to help persuade him its a bad move, maybe this will help).

Cheers

JB

[CAVnotOK]

Most likely about 10 years.

If the resignations continue at the current rate he might get in as DEC!!
Tell him to stay put, unless he enjoys the thought of being kicked in the balls on a daily basis.

[whossorrynow]

I have a friend who's trying to get into EK, because he thinks it is a quick command.

Tell him to read this article written in June:
gulfnews : Emirates chief is confident of staying profitable (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/emirates-chief-is-confident-of-staying-profitable-1.71497)

If he can't be bothered to read the whole report the important sentence is this one:
Emirates' fleet will expand from 126 passenger aircraft now to 196 planes by 2018,

Net growth at EK as forecast by TC in the next 9 years is 70 aircraft. Lets say 9 upgrades per aircraft. That amounts to 630 upgrades at EK in the period 2009-2018.

How many F/Os at Emirates now?

More than 1100.

[dubaibound]

I think you'll find that all our new hires are planned into the right seat. Thus if you are calculating 9 crews per aircraft, then it's 18 upgrades per new aircraft. If you're calculating 8 crews per aircraft, then it's 16 upgrades per aircraft.
Of course this may change in the future, but it would be a huge stretch to assume an average DEC intake of 50%.

[Wizofoz]

Thus if you are calculating 9 crews per aircraft, then it's 18 upgrades per new aircraft. If you're calculating 8 crews per aircraft, then it's 16 upgrades per aircraft.


I don't agree with your maths, there DB. 9 crews per aircraft means nine new Captains (e.g 9 upgrades and 18 new hire F/Os (9 to replace the upgrades, 9 to fill the new right seats).

[fractional]

A little bit off the topic. Just saw it coming in. Perhaps money is also needed to avoid falling off the cliff if EK is there at all.

No alliance with Etihad, says Emirates chief
Emirates Airline chairman Sheikh Ahmed has hit out at rumours of a possible merger with Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, insisting "there is no such plan".
More here: EXCLUSIVE: No alliance with Etihad, says Emirates chief - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/571613-exclusive-no-alliance-with-etihad-says-emirates-chief)

[GMDS]

As much as I have respected HH, I have to admit that he has lost the plot. He has not as clue about the internal decay rate of his airline, mainly due to Emiratisation and placing clowns like AAR in too high positions. He has no clue about the looming danger of attrition on almost every level once the industry picks up. And now it seems he has no clue about his own position versus the arrogance of power and envy, threatening from the south.
He seems to forget that Dubai is contributing a meager 7% to the national budget versus 92% of Abu Dhabi. If 20 billions central bank loan plus 6.5 out of the free market will not close the debt trap, some hard decisions will be forced upon HH and his brownnosers.
In this region every shift or decision of the self proclaimed visionary leaders always started with a blunt lie and flat out denial.