Watch out for them skysails!

[englishal]

When you cross the channel at 1000' in IMC.....

Potential Threat to Aviation Posed by Skysails

We have received two safety alerts – from CHC Helicopter and the European Organisation for Safety of Air Navigatio (Eurocontrol) – concerning a recent incident involving a Skysail, an experimental supplement to standard ship propulsion.


Title: Potential Threat to Aviation from Skysails

Brief Account of Events:

The aircraft was descending to the operating area in the
Dutch offshore sector and identified a large kite/skysail
flying at around 1000 ft (just below the clouds) ahead of a
vessel.

The ‘skysail’ itself was in the flightpath of the aircraft as it
headed towards a nearby installation and, although difficult
to see against the cloudy backdrop, was seen to be
moving around ahead of the vessel in an erratic manner.
The long cable, on which the skysail was extended, was
also difficult to see.

The vessel can be seen in the picture below with the
‘skysail’ circled in red. The approximate line of the cable
has also been marked on the picture.

Details of the vessel, its location and the potential threat to
aviation posed by the ‘kite’ were passed to the local ATC
unit and onwards to the Coastguard.

The crew advised another nearby platform that the vessel
was moving towards their operating area and also
informed base operations as soon as possible.
Further research has shown that this is one of the first in a
line of ‘experimental’ vessels using ‘skysails’ to
supplement the traditional propulsion units.

[Pace]

SkySails-Footage (http://www.skysails.info/english/information-center/press-lounge/tv/footage/)

SkySails-SkySails Performance Calculation (http://www.skysails.info/english/information-center/background-information/skysails-performance-calculation/)

Googled Skysails and came up with this site. I have seen these things towing surfers but never SHIPS.

They are obviously a threat but not sure at Sea Whos regulations they would come under?

In the performance link above there is a ref to the units made at present for small ships but soon they will have large skysails for large ships. Maybe they should be regulated to carry transponders?

Pace

[fisbangwollop]

2 weeks ago there was a Notam indicating an area off the East Scottish coast where this ship would be operating.....I forget now what height the kite would be flown at but the area of operations was quite huge!!!:cool::cool:

[englishal]

http://www.digital-reality.co.uk/skysail.jpg

[ChampChump]

SkySails-SkySails in Airspace (http://www.skysails.info/english/information-center/background-information/skysails-in-airspace/)

Always flying under 800m Class G and Notam'd, they deploy around 50m. The website seems confident in the practicalities and legalities of the situation.

[Crash one]

I've had an idea! Why don't they fix those sails to big long sticks poking out of the deck of the ship?

[englishal]

Now there is a novel idea!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Surely these things qualify as Kites? Should they not be (at least in the UK FIRs) complying with The ANO section 2?


Captive balloons and kites at night
52.—(1) A captive balloon or kite flying at night at a height exceeding 60 metres above the
surface shall display lights in accordance with paragraphs (2), (3) and (4).
(2) A group of two steady lights shall be displayed consisting of a white light placed 4 metres
above a red light, both being of at least five candela and showing in all directions, the white light
being placed not less than 5 metres nor more than 10 metres below the basket or, if there is no
basket, below the lowest part of the balloon or kite.
30 March 2007
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 21
(3) On the mooring cable of the balloon or kite, at intervals of not more than 300 metres
measured from the group of lights specified in paragraph (2), there shall be displayed—
(a) groups of two lights of the colour and power and in the relative positions specified in
paragraph (2); and
(b) if the lowest group of lights is obscured by cloud, an additional group of such lights
below the cloud base.
(4) On the surface of the ground there shall be displayed a group of three flashing lights
arranged—
(a) in a horizontal plane at the apexes of a triangle, approximately equilateral, each side of
which measures at least 25 metres;
(b) so that one side of the triangle shall be approximately at right angles to the horizontal
projection of the cable and shall be delimited by two red lights; and
(c) so that the third light shall be a green light, placed so that the triangle encloses the object
on the surface to which the balloon or kite is moored.

Captive balloons and kites by day
53.—(1) A captive balloon flying by day at a height exceeding 60 metres above the surface shall
have attached to its mooring cable tubular streamers which are—
(a) not less than 40 centimetres in diameter and 2 metres in length; and
(b) marked with alternate bands of red and white 50 centimetres wide at intervals of not more
than 200 metres measured from the basket or, if there is no basket, from the lowest part of
the balloon.
(2) A kite flying by day at a height exceeding 60 metres above the surface shall have attached to
its mooring cable either:
(a) tubular streamers as specified in paragraph (1); or
(b) at intervals of not more than 100 metres measured from the lowest part of the kite,
streamers not less than 80 centimetres long and 30 centimetres wide at their widest point,
marked with alternate bands of red and white 10 centimetres wide.

[gasax]

I suspect that the ANO does not cover them. The HSWA has to have specific amendements laid before parliament to apply to offshore installations and wind farms. The Coast Protection Act also.

However there less than 10 of these things worlswide at the moment and I suspect the report was not much more than attention seeking. If dozens of them start to operate around our coasts it will be something else to look out for. I suspect they compromise the manoeurvability of the ship quite a bit so they are unlikely to pose much of a threat for the short Channel crossings. But areas with less traffic could get to be an issue - having said that simple strobe lights would make a big difference in making the kites and more particularly the tow lines visible.

[silverknapper]

I suspect the report was not much more than attention seeking
Why on earth would this be attention seeking? It seems a bloody valid point to me. As stated above there was a ship off the east coast of Scotland with one of these extending to 300m. The same east coast which is abundant with Helicopters, Fisheries patrols, Coastguard patrols. If I were flying one of these I would be very glad of the heads up, and not even consider the reporter to be 'attention seeking' as you so kindly put it.
There was a thread on this in rotorheads a few weeks ago. Very interesting.

[bjornhall]

Hardly matters if one is the only person ever to hit one of those things, it'd still be quite a bummer... Good to at least know they exist! :ok:

Am still way more concerned with those wind power plants popping up everywhere tho'... :sad:

[Lister Noble]

is your nav so bad you can't plot a windmill?;)
As far as I know they are fixed objects.

Edited to add,just had a C-130 over at around 200 feet.:) but we are around 15 miles from the coast.

[bjornhall]

is your nav so bad you can't plot a windmill?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif
As far as I know they are fixed objects.

Good one! :ok: See current list of active notams below; will send my maps over so you can plot them all for me! Deal? :E



OBST ERECTED ONE WINDTURBINE AT 580821N0143517E HGT 328FT ELEV
991 FT LGT FLG R.
14AUG09 0705 - PERM (ES/1/E0507/09)

OBST ERECTED TWO WINDTURBINES AT GROTLINGBO 570452N0181949E HGT
410FT ELEV 443FT LGT FLG R.
11JUN09 0636 - PERM (ES/1/E0362/09)

OBST ERECTED MAST AT SKANES FAGERHULT 562037N0133015E HGT 328FT
ELEV 771FT LGT F R.
24JUL09 0651 - PERM (ES/1/E0462/09)

OBST ERECTED AT FEMSJO 565403N0131430E HGT 328FT ELEV 843FT LGT
F R.
22SEP09 1242 - PERM (ES/1/E0621/09)

OBST ERECTED WINDTURBINE AT BORRBY 552822N0141012E HGT 331FT
ELEV 479FT LGT FLG R.
01OCT09 0815 - PERM (ES/1/E0643/09)

OBST ERECTED TWO WIND POWER PLANTS AT TORSAS PSN 5625N01605E.
HGT 456 FT, OBST LGT NOT AVBL.
01OCT09 1001 - 30OCT09 1500EST (ES/1/E0645/09)

OBST 0025 HALMSTAD/OSKARSTROM POS 564723N0125616E OBST LIGHTS
OUT OF SERVICE.
06OCT09 1231 - 20OCT09 1200EST (ES/1/E0656/09)


OBST ERECTED TWO WIND POWER PLANTS AT ASPINGE PSN 5547N01324E
HEIGHT 390 FEET, OBST LGT NOT AVBL.
15SEP09 1448 - 09OCT09 1400EST (ES/1/E0603/09)

OBST ERECTED TWO WIND POWER PLANTS AT KLEMEDSTORP PSN
5547N01324E HEIGHT 390 FEET, OBST LGT NOT AVBL.
15SEP09 1459 - 09OCT09 1400EST (ES/1/E0604/09)

OBST ERECTED WINDTURBINE AT ERIKSTORP 582716N0133201E HGT 485FT
ELEV 872FT LGT FLG R.
01OCT09 0812 - PERM (ES/1/E0642/09)

OBST ERECTED ONE WINDTURBINE AT SKANNINGE 582413N0150804E HGT
328FT ELEV 607FT LGT FLG R.
14AUG09 0652 - PERM (ES/1/E0502/09)

OBST ERECTED ONE WINDTURBINE AT KLOCKRIKE 582854N0152134E HGT
328FT ELEV 558FT LGT F R.
14AUG09 0655 - PERM (ES/1/E0503/09)

OBST ERECTED FOUR WINDTURBINES AT SKARHULT 554702N0132210E HGT
390FT
ELEV 607FT LGT F R.
14AUG09 0700 - PERM (ES/1/E0505/09)

OBST ERECTED SIX WINDTURBINES AT LUNDSBRUNN 582701N0132841E HGT
456FT ELEV 882FT LGT F R.
24AUG09 1306 - PERM (ES/1/E0528/09)

OBST ERECTED FOUR WINDTURBINES AT SOLVESBORG 560413N0144014E
HGT 328FT ELEV 351FT LGT F R.
24AUG09 1311 - PERM (ES/1/E0530/09)

OBST ERECTED FOUR WINDTURBINES AT ASPINGE 554718N0132427E HGT
390FT ELEV 725FT LGT FLG R.
31AUG09 1156 - PERM (ES/1/E0541/09)

OBST ERECTED FOUR WINDTURBINES AT HULTET 562300N0154501E HGT
492FT ELEV 846FT LGT FLG R.
04SEP09 0932 - PERM (ES/1/E0552/09)

OBST ERECTED THREE WINDTURBINES AT KUNGSHULT 555049N0132856E
HGT 456FT ELEV 751FT LGT F R.
04SEP09 0935 - PERM (ES/1/E0553/09)


OBST ERECTED FIVE WINDTURBINES AT KRISTIANSTAD 560419N0141031E
HGT 410FT ELEV 469FT LGT FLG R.
04SEP09 0937 - PERM (ES/1/E0554/09)

GROUP OF 3 OBST ERECTED AT KRISTIANSTAD 560232N0140339E HEIGT
456 FT
ELEV 489FT UNDER CONSTRUCTION NO OBST LIGHTS.
30SEP09 1306 - 31OCT09 1300EST (ES/1/E0637/09)

[Lister Noble]

Nice one,point taken!
:)
We drove around Denmark and Sweden recently and were suprised at the number of turbines,but mostly on lower flatter ground.
Will start plotting now ;);)
Lister

[PH-UKU]

is your nav so bad you can't plot a windmill?
As far as I know they are fixed objects.

I'm equally concerned about the skinny anemometer masts that aren't notamed which pop up all over the west coast of Scotland (while they are researching windy places to put the next windfarm).

They are about 298ft high, don't need lighting, don't need notaming and are grey in colour. The kind of ops that I do means I'm in and around hills and lochs all the time at low level and whenever I see one of these I pop it into the GPS.

However, when you go back and can't see it because it's been taken down .... that is a real worry as you check and double check out the windae :eek: to make sure it REALLY isn't there.

I wonder how do the RAF low level guys find out about these, cos' there must be loads of them within some of the low flying areas and the HRA (R610)?

BTW Thanks for the info on the skysails - I for one think it was useful and certainly not attention seeking.

[Droopystop]

Interesting that the company are quoting an operating height (50m or so) when the picture shows it way higher. Why oh why are they white, cunningly disguised as a cloud when they should be ORANGE.

As for anemometer masts, they are major hazard to low flying and IMO should be notamed. I am pretty sure that they require planning permission, so their locations should be available from the local council. Yet more paperwork to plough through before going flying!

[buzz111]

Does anyone know of new encounters with theese scary things? It's been rather quiet lately....

Rgds

[gasax]

Posted in February this year;

Skysails just had to let go 40 of their 80 people due limited hopes of finding
enough ship owners able or willing to invest into it´s technology given the cost pressure in the market.

I can not find any english speaking link so far but maybe you want to use google translate on the following links:

Schiffdrachenhersteller: SkySails in höchster Not - manager magazin - Unternehmen (http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/artikel/0,2828,812770,00.html)

http://www.fr-online.de/wirtschaft/schifffahrt-schiffdrachenhersteller-in-turbul\
enzen,1472780,11582404.html

So it would seem they may not represent much of a threat for a while.