Indonesian Airline Advertisement [Archive]

Ixixly

7th Oct 2009, 11:32

Ok, so here is the advertisement on AFAP for Indonesian Airlines:

7 OCTOBER 2009
INDONESIAN AIRLINES
ATR & AM60 FIRST OFFICERS Required
Min Req:
* Any Citizen
* ICAO Approved CPL/IFR-ME
* Class 1 Medical
Company will provide:
* Type rating (min 3yrs Bond) or (Self Sponsored)
* Visa to live & work in Indonesia
If interested, forward a 1 page CV to .............. to be considered.
Further details provided upon application

So I thought Indonesian Airlines had ceased operations? Unless its meant to be something for Garuda but as far as i know they don't run any ATRs?

Another point is that the email certainly doesn't seem to be legit for a large organisation, seeing as how its a yahoo mail account.

Can anyone shed some light on this advertisement and whether its legitimate or not?

Joker 10

7th Oct 2009, 11:36

Could be legit, Yahoo is commonly used throughout Asia to avoid local Government Scrutiny.

training wheels

7th Oct 2009, 12:41

I have a friend who is a dash 8 captain for Wings Air (Lion Air subsidiary). I've jst got a reply from him saying that there's currently no airline in Indonesia called "Indonesian Airlines".

Furthermore, according to him, their local regulations states that foreign pilots can only be employed in Indonesia if there aren't any local pilots capable of doing the the job. That's typical labour regulations anywhere in the world isn't it? Imagine if Indonesian pilots were allowed to apply for Qantaslink and Rex. Imagine the uproar here on pprune, let alone the unions and AFAP if that happened here.

Further details provided upon application

If anyone applies and gets further details, please do share it here. I'd like to be proven wrong that this job ad sounds a little dodgy.

SPEEDI

7th Oct 2009, 13:17

Gday the only airline i saw that operates the MA60 (i think it could be a typo) is Merpati airlines however no sign of ATR's in there fleet. so unless there planning on a large purchase of ATRs i have no idea

aseanaero

7th Oct 2009, 14:52

The only MA60 operator is Merpati

Merpati Nusantara Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merpati_Nusantara_Airlines)

ATR-42s , there are lots of operators using the ATR so it could be an agent recruiting for a number of operators

Noddy2

7th Oct 2009, 19:25

From a source within Merpati they are getting some ATRs. How many I do not know.

powerstall

8th Oct 2009, 00:34

As for the ATR's.

Government Promises New Round of Negotiations Over Xi’an-Merpati Deal

The government has not abandoned plans to buy 15 passenger turboprop aircraft worth $232 million from Chinese aeronautics firm Xi’an for troubled PT Merpati Nusantara Airlines, a minister said. He added that another round of talks with Xi’an province officials would aim to settle more than nine months of turbulent on-again, off-again negotiations.

“There will be another round of negotiations led by the trade minister [Mari Elka Pangestu],” Jusman Syafii Djamal, the transportation minister, told reporters late on Friday after attending a ministerial meeting led by acting Coordinating Minister for the Economy Sri Mulyani Indrawati in Jakarta.

No schedule for fresh talks was offered, nor did Jusman confirm whether Xi’an officials had agreed to reopen negotiations.

State carrier Merpati in 2006 agreed to purchase 15 MA-60s from Xi’an using a soft loan facility from China, with the two governments signing a formal deal in August last year.

However, Merpati, saddled with serious financial problems, never followed through on its commitments, and by late 2008 the deal was embroiled in charges of corruption and allegations that Merpati officials had overpaid for the planes in return for kickbacks.

Merpati took delivery of two of the planes in 2007. The aircraft were grounded in June because of body damage, including cracks in the tail of one of the MA-60s.

Since October, the government and Merpati had asked Xi’an to lower prices for the planes, but Xi’an executives have insisted on sticking to prices in the formal agreement.

Xi’an is now refusing to provide after-sales service for the two planes and is demanding full prices for spare parts instead of the discounted rates negotiated during the sale.

The aircraft maker has threatened to take Merpati to international arbitration in Singapore to recover $90 million in damages from the now-frozen deal, souring bilateral relations between China and Indonesia.

The deal had also been blamed for postponing loans of about $5 billion from Chinese banks for the government’s “fast-track” electricity generation program, although some of the projects put on hold at the beginning of the global crisis are again being developed.

Sri Mulyani and Mari along with Merpati executives, flew to Beijing in March to discuss the deal, although the negotiations did not bear fruit.

Sri Mulyani “requested that this matter to be concluded, so negotiations with China will begin again to settle all of the problems . . . There were no talks for an option to call off the plan” to buy the aircraft, Jusman said.

Bambang Bhakti, Merpati’s president director, said on Friday that he would leave negotiations to the government. He had earlier told the Jakarta Globe that the airline was planning to abandon the deal if a resolution wasn’t reached in June.

Bambang became Merpati’s head after the formal deal was signed in 2008, and was not a party to the agreement.

Bambang said it was urgent for Merpati to receive the planes to expand service to the provinces..

But despite the urgency, “it would be okay to wait for one or two months” for a deal, as long as the agreement reached “was prudent and all parties benefited,”

On July 5, Merpati said it had signed a $63 million deal with several foreign lessors to lease eight French-made ATR-72 passenger planes, of similar size to the MA-60s, for six to 10 years. Several of the leased aircraft are set to be delivered this month.

blackbandit

8th Oct 2009, 01:24

After you forward your 1 page resume, they will generally ask you to transfer an amount of money to their bank accounts to pay for the processing of your details/police checks/residency permits/work permits etc.

This used to happen frequently in the past and the indos were notorious for doing it.

By all means if you want the job apply, however, in Indonesia, the employer is required by law to pay for all permits mentioned above. If they want cash up front for anything, walk away bro!

Massey058

8th Oct 2009, 03:58

Merpati is an absolute basket case.

A couple of months ago one of their remaining decrepit Twin Otters had a CFIT accident in Papua.

Their CN235's look in terrible shape, one is essentially abandoned on the apron in Medan.

They are looking at the ATR's for areas like Papua and putting capacity into routes like Jayapura-Wamena where one operator has CFIT'd 2 aircraft already this year.

Maybe their ATR drivers might give accurate ETA's and maintain cleared altitudes? That's if they ever actually arrive.

goldypilot

8th Oct 2009, 07:59

Massey058 (http://www.pprune.org/members/79168-massey058) I dnt know this topic to well but my guess is when they hire guys with 0hrs like this add they are going to get pelicans flying into mountains and not holdin alttitude. just a thought

Massey058

8th Oct 2009, 09:27

A good point but the reverse seems to be true. an awful lot of 'experience' has splatted itself against terra-firma in recent years.

tail wheel

8th Oct 2009, 10:04

I removed the email contact address from the above adverts.

PPRuNe is not a forum which provides free adverts, supports or endorses any offer of employment.

And if you are considering employment in any country in which you are not a Citizen, I suggest you first Google the term Caveat Emptor (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=caveat+emptor&meta=&aq=0&oq=caveat+).

There is no Utopia for low hour pilots.

eternity

8th Oct 2009, 12:19

CFIT is always in the back of a pilots mind as one simple error can create a CFIT accident that always almost ends in fatalities.

As you pointed out (and as studies have shown) all pilots are just as susceptible to CFIT, regardless of their experience.

However, take into account that many people read these forums.
Please consider that people reading this forum may have had close friends or relatives lose their lives in a CFIT tragedy.

So show some tact, attempt to employ some maturity and not refer to a CFIT tragedy as someone "splatting" against terra firma.:=

longrass

8th Oct 2009, 13:05

Training Wheels- There are no "local regulations" in Indonesia, your mate is obviously not much of a mate, I'd say he made that up because he doesn't want you up there!

Everything is possible, best bet is it's a foreign airline, perhaps Singapore looking to expand. Or maybe they are running guns, ASIS and FedPol will know about it, why don't you call them?

But seriously, don't take it to heart, it's not your fault.

Jesus loves you... But everyone else thinks you a tosser!

frigatebird

8th Oct 2009, 13:15

Massey
Maybe just maybe, they are like some operators who want to improve standards and are fishing for resumes for ex-training captains or experienced type pilots, to put in the right seat to help the low time or new-to-type ones of their own in the left. If you were selecting foreign nationals for a low paying right seat job, out of the resumes submitted (for whatever reason), which would you choose? Have had co-pilots try to fly me into the water too, when I didn't want to go ...

Massey058

8th Oct 2009, 13:56

frigatebird, I don't think there is an hours formula for CFIT thats for sure just saying that in 3 of the 4 CFIT accidents in Indonesia this year have had experienced crews.

Its just incredibly depressing when you read the stats and see the damage for real and being a pilots forum I used language that clearly riled someone and I apologise.

It will be interesting to see what comes of it all. Merpati do not pay very well and airlines cannot pay their expat employees at different levels to the locals. Hence, Batavia are offering US$4000 for expat 737 drivers because that is what they pay their local employees.

The whole thing seems weird. The idea behind getting the ATR's would be to use in place of the MA60's which its pretty clear will never fly in big numbers in Indonesia, straining relations with China. I don't think its impossible that Merpati could disappear in the short-medium term. Caveat emptor indeed.

goldypilot

9th Oct 2009, 00:49

number 8

Darwin hospital is not far away...

Yes it is close but i dnt think will be better off going to darwin hospital anyway. last time i walked in there i was just visiting a friend and walked out without a kidney

frigatebird

9th Oct 2009, 01:02

In Honiara its called Number 9.(You don't go there if your feeling number 1)

In Vila the Lions or Apex USED to raise money for basic needs like sutures.

aseanaero

9th Oct 2009, 01:59

I agree with Torque Limit , an airline like Lion Air would be a good experience for 1 or 2 years.

I wouldn't be spending lots of money on pre-paying agents etc though.

Best way is to get on a plane and do the rounds of the local airlines for a week.

While the airlines need pilots the turboprop charter operators are even worse off as pilots leave them in droves to fly jets.

Susi Air has been discussed ad-nuseam in a seperate thread but are using expat pilots for their Caravans, Porters and Piaggio mainly because the freshly graduated local pilots want to fly Boeings or ATRs

Interesting thing is the local pilots go straight from C172s to an FO in a turboprop , there's no time building in piston singles or twins here as avgas is hard to get so all the cessnas and pipers are parked and slowly being sold off.

The 2 major flying schools at Halim are currently pumping out 200 pilots a year but its not enough , to my knowledge there are no rotary wing schools here in Indo (other than the armed forces) and the current batch of Indo helicopter pilots are getting on , there are VERY few young guys flying helis up here.

Massey058 , I'd be interested in your comments on some of the freshly graduated Indo pilots , why aren't more flying with Susi Air ?

FL170

9th Oct 2009, 06:24

Thanks for everyone's input however I am concerned about sending my C.V. to an email address that could well of been created by any Joe Blow out there after people's personal information.

Any advice on this? Right now I stand at sending a C.V with my email address only (no physical address, phone number etc.)

Cheers

tmpffisch

9th Oct 2009, 06:30

I am concerned about sending my C.V. to an email address that could well of been created by any Joe Blow out there after people's personal information.

JOB AD: further details available upon application

Ask for further details about the position, it may give you an idea if it's legit.

Dunnza

9th Oct 2009, 06:49

Just contact Merptai directly, they are the only airline that runs with the MA-60

VH DSJ

9th Oct 2009, 09:20

A one page summary with breakdown of hours ONLY and an email will do. Let them take the next step with legit info...

Torque:ok:

You can PM at anytime...

Seems like you're in the know Torque limit. And judging by your previous posts on pprune, you also seem to be pedalling the Eagle Jet First Officer (pay for your own) program, particuarly with Lion Air. Any connection here or just a coincidence? :E

Massey058

9th Oct 2009, 13:22

I'd be interested in your comments on some of the freshly graduated Indo pilots , why aren't more flying with Susi Air ?

I think your previous lines explain it all. I have met a few guys who started on Twin Otters out of flight school but jets is where its at so to speak. They are generally disinterested in flying a single-engine turbo-prop.

There are Indonesian pilots currently and I certainly wish there were more because it is enjoyable flying and I know some people who skipped straight to jets say they feel they have missed out. Off the top of my head 2 trained outside of Indonesia.

training wheels

9th Oct 2009, 22:55

But seriously, don't take it to heart, it's not your fault.

Jesus loves you... But everyone else thinks you a tosser!

longrass, dont worry mate. after having read some your posts on this forum, you're about as knowledgeable and credible as any other tossers on here. i know who'd i'd be believing, mate. :rolleyes:

And if the posts above is true, then why dont they just come out and say this advert is nothing more than the Eagle Jet F/O program? :ugh:

longrass

10th Oct 2009, 09:08

Give up mate, your a clown, grow up!

training wheels

10th Oct 2009, 09:56

Give up mate, your a clown, grow up!

.. and this coming from a pathetic loser who says, and I quote,

But seriously, don't take it to heart, it's not your fault.

Jesus loves you... But everyone else thinks you a tosser!

yeah good one, hero. :rolleyes:

BBN RADAR

15th Oct 2009, 01:32

Back to the topic regarding the advertisement....

Has anyone who sent their CV in had a response?

If anyone has any more info on this opportunity, please share it....

A1322

15th Oct 2009, 22:32

I sent in my CV last week to see what they were all about, and just got a message back today.

I reads 'Congratulation, you are selected for indonesian airline. we will contact you for any further asap. regards Richard'.

Im still not convinced its legit.

goldypilot

15th Oct 2009, 23:29

i dont mean to ask a personal question ok well i do but how much experience do u have? just to get an idea of what they are looking for. Is it more then what they advertised?????????

Cheers mate

once again if u dnt wanna give out the info all good

dmussen

16th Oct 2009, 06:32

A good one to stay clear of.

ksa5223

16th Oct 2009, 07:00

Out of interest what is a MA-60. Are they a good machine.

HappyAvo

16th Oct 2009, 08:32

I also applied for a position with "Indonesian Airlines" and received an sms and phone call today. I'm still not sure about pursuing this, hence reading this thread. The person I spoke to offered an interview / meeting in Sydney with details of where and when in a couple of days via sms/phone.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

A1322

16th Oct 2009, 09:12

Yeah i just got a phone call today also, and was asked to go to sydney for a interview/meeting. Being sceptical I asked many questions to which I got few answers. From what he told me, the job will be flying RPT runs within indonesia, flying a glassed cockpit twin turbine ATR. Sounded good, but he kept refering to the company as an 'indonesian airline'. I asked him directly who the opperator was, and didn't get an answer. He just said that all these questions would be answered in sydney. (im still not sure why he wasnt up front with that)
They will have a couple of intakes, and the first group will be starting ground school within the next few weeks.

Even though im still sceptical I'll be going to the interview just to see what they are all about. Too good to be ture?? Maybe, but you have to find out somehow!

goldypilot, ive been flying commercially for the last 1.5 years, but they are taking low time pilots, according to the guy on the phone, so worth looking into it.

Hope this helps a little.

training wheels

16th Oct 2009, 10:13

I bet you 500 rupiah it's the Eagle Jet pay for your own F/O program. Take a look at this thread (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/391468-airline-se-asia-eaglejet-737-linetraining-scheme.html#post5241393) in the SEA forum. :E

goldypilot

16th Oct 2009, 23:50

cheers A1322. keep us posted on how it goes. interested to see what its all about

scar82

18th Oct 2009, 02:44

i got a message to but no information about nothing.sounds like some one taking the piss out of every1 who applied.any1 think so or who thinks its for real.

HTFU

18th Oct 2009, 05:39

This whole saga reeks like an Ashton Kutcher Punk'd Joke....:E

goldypilot

18th Oct 2009, 07:47

yer i am going to put it down to a we gotchya. but how low is that SERIOUSLY

powerstall

18th Oct 2009, 07:54

Flying glass cockpit ATR's? Are they talking about the 72-600? It's still at least a year or maybe more away from certification. :confused:

alexcon

18th Oct 2009, 09:43

I got the msg as well.. but i didn reply to it. then the guy rang me up at night askin if i got it.. then he said he will call us on sat or sun to tell us the meeting details. No call yet!! doesnt sound legit.

highflyer87

18th Oct 2009, 10:20

Is it asking too much for AFAP to investigate the legitimacy of its job adverts?...
Because this wouldn’t be the first dodgy one I’ve seen on there.

scar82

18th Oct 2009, 11:16

i reckon especially at times like this people could be playing pranks due to the current sitaution people are going through now with aviation jobs all drying up.Its pretty depressing and then you get idiots thinking its a joke.:\

Massey058

18th Oct 2009, 11:28

I think it might be quite right that its some sort of recruitment agency and it may not just be for Lion hence the 'Indonesian Airlines'.

Lion Air have orders for 10 ATR's for their Wings subsidiary, have seen photos of them all painted up but don't think they're in the country yet. They have apparently used Eagle Jet as well as CAE for recruitment of expats for their 737-900ER fleet.

HTFU

19th Oct 2009, 00:10

What makes you think that AFAP or the newspapers give a rats ass whether Job Ads are legit or not it's just a revenue stream for them and nothing else....:suspect:
I agree with Torque... stay away you never know... there are many evil organisations in asia and it's when suckers:eek: are lured into an unfamiliar country with no local knowledge all of a sudden you have a black cotton bag over your head and your in the back of van and a ransom note is sent to the address you provided to them in your application:}
Think about it a CPL and MECIR is not cheap and most people that have these qualifications usually come from privileged backgrounds.. and with the oz government stamping down on people smuggling the triads need another source of income...

alexcon

19th Oct 2009, 20:34

Got an email today with the location of the meeting!! Anyone else got it?? 19 people got selected.

highflyer87

19th Oct 2009, 23:30

only 19 people applied? :}

Andy05

19th Oct 2009, 23:52

A few friends of mine applied but where not selected so out of all the people that applied only 19 where selected, good luck to you all. Opportunties sometimes come around in strange ways.

archangel7

20th Oct 2009, 05:35

Congratulations! you have a job with an ‘ Indonesian airline’... what an absolute joke!

keegan84

20th Oct 2009, 10:28

Hey guys,

I also got an email this morning and so did my friend whom i have done my flying with. Im not too sure off the great details but i think its worth investigating non the less.

tmpffisch

20th Oct 2009, 10:55

Given up on QF Wannabe? You need to be over 21 to hold an ATPL. Total time is your total aeronautical experience, not the number of hours you've been alive.

But thanks for the windup :ok:.

alexcon

21st Oct 2009, 08:00

hi guys,

my mate and i who got selected spoke to witworth yesterday and said its legit. He knows the guy richard.

training wheels

21st Oct 2009, 08:29

hi guys,

my mate and i who got selected spoke to witworth yesterday and said its legit. He knows the guy richard.

Well, if witworth says it's legit, then I guess it must be so!! BTW, who is witworth? :confused:

HTFU

21st Oct 2009, 08:35

hey alex so what's the go are ya definitely in or is there still some hoops to jump thru ie sim test psych test interview etc...

stick&rudder15

21st Oct 2009, 08:36

Did any driver with 500 multi or over get a email or is this more so for low time pilots?

HTFU

21st Oct 2009, 08:40

witworth is to bankstown as pearce is to moorabin...:ok:

alexcon

21st Oct 2009, 08:54

Whitworth is based at ysbk and been open for about twenty years and specialises in ifr. No one is in yet. they just selected few people and they are gonna tell us wats the offer etc. So i guess we will find out on sunday wat this is all about.

eternity

23rd Oct 2009, 03:50

A few guys I know with over 500 multi (including myself), sent in a resume, and as far as I know, nobody (including myself) have received any reply.

I guess they are aiming for low-time pilots. I suspect that it may involve the low-time pilots handing over some cash or accepting some pretty ordinary conditions.

Who knows??

HTFU

24th Oct 2009, 07:36

It could be that low timers are easier to retain when the airline movements come no 500 multi cmd = first officer for a long time... isn't that how rex are playing thier cadets???

scar82

24th Oct 2009, 09:46

well i think 1 or 2 that have being selected have over 500 command multi.so i dont really know how the selection process was done

alexcon

25th Oct 2009, 05:36

its merparti airline... after we found out from the meeting.. read this about the airline:

Google Image Result for http://thejakartaglobe.com/media/images/large/20090605011629020.jpg (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://thejakartaglobe.com/media/images/large/20090605011629020.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thejakartaglobe.com/home/merpati-exec-claims-carrier/310280&usg=__VdnqzDeslritWIPMVPWBuKWhWP8=&h=310&w=468&sz=138&hl=en&start=5&sig2=KJmFXjfUIaghBr4GkNC9lw&um=1&tbnid=TyMIU6OnFqbzcM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dma%2B60%2Baircraft%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=nuHjSpfjFZvq7AOU6b2uCA)

training wheels

25th Oct 2009, 06:09

No one is in yet. they just selected few people and they are gonna tell us wats the offer etc. So i guess we will find out on sunday wat this is all about.

So, alexcon, what is it all about? Is it a "pay of for your rating and hours" type program?

PLWarrior

25th Oct 2009, 07:13

I went to the meeting at BK this morning. They had about 20 of us in the room, and the guy started talking about how they needed pilots, and pilots getting trained in Indonesia are all currently being snapped up by Lion Air to fly 737s, and aren't interested in flying ATRs.
There was an issue of paying AUS$1000 once we've been accepted.
There was also the question of weather we would have a contract saying that we would be employed or not, but the question got avoided and replied with "I will come over with you and introduce you to the company directors" or along those lines.
He (Richard) said that they will be looking for more and more intakes of pilots at around 10 at a time. With 20 in the room today, he said that there would be 10 in the first lot and 10 in the second lot as they can't train more than that at a time realistically on simulators. I'm thinking personally it would be better to be selected in the 2nd lot of 10 just to see what the first group makes of it.

HTFU

25th Oct 2009, 07:43

This stuff just keeps getting better and better
So now you gotta pay $1000 just to get a job????:eek:
any one else see something wrong here???:mad:

alexcon

25th Oct 2009, 11:42

ye i am the one who asked him to prove to us what he is saying about pay etc.. are we gonna see a contract before we go.. He avoided my question so i asked him again and he still didn reply with the right answer.. To top it all, then he said he wants 1000 dollars. Which airline would ask for 1000 dollars and to transfer it to a personal local bank.. He didn even introduce him properly as he works for the company.. Did anyone pick up on his name tag saying expired 2004??

training wheels

25th Oct 2009, 12:19

Did he say what the $1000 was for?

j3pipercub

25th Oct 2009, 13:48

Personal Retirement Fund Perhaps...

Caveat Emptor...

ules

26th Oct 2009, 02:07

HMM.. becarefull guys so many scammers in indonesia. damn javanese ppl. i would get a solicitor to look over any contract and have one first before coughing up any $.
Oh and judging from that report maybe the indonesians know something thats why they are leaving for lion air ? airline going bust ?

eternity

26th Oct 2009, 02:21

j3,

it actually would not surprise me if the Retirement is where the money is headed. You've heard many of my stories about the crap they tried to pull on us in China. Sounds like maybe the same thing here.

But if this joker wants $1000, doesnt officially say that he works for a paticular airline, but promises that he will place you in an airline - doesn't that make him a recruiter??? Like Rishworth, but only low-rent and dodgy???

Isn't that what recruiters do????

alexcon

26th Oct 2009, 03:22

DO NOT PAY THE 1000 DOLLARS. one of the guys called the airline and they said they have no atrs and sent back the ma60s. They are also not recruiting and the guy Resad (richard) is still in indoneisa and that guy we met is using his ID.

Watch out.

HTFU

26th Oct 2009, 06:37

Alex, So before you said it's legit based on witworths word and now you say it's a scam, so which is it???

Aerozepplin

26th Oct 2009, 06:46

In my opinion at low time CPL can afford to take a few risks that might pay off, but paying $1000 to someone who's reluctant to tell you who's hiring....

well... I paid a Nigerian guy once who promised great things too...

training wheels

26th Oct 2009, 07:00

one of the guys called the airline and they said they have no atrs and sent back the ma60s.

Well, that's what I thought. This webpage is from Merpati's Training Centre (http://sbumtc.net/sbumtc/content/view/148/74/). They do type rating courses for 737s and Twin Otters; no ATRs nor MA 60s.

And what's this about local Indonesian pilots not wanting to become F/O's for turbo prop operations? If that was true, then who are crewing their current fleet of CN 235s, and Twotters? :rolleyes:

HTFU

26th Oct 2009, 07:16

Found this interesting reading
Pilot Jobs (http://loh.nu/jobs/index.htm)

alexcon

26th Oct 2009, 07:21

HTFU.. i said whitworth said its legit.. doesn mean i believe its legit.. and yes to me its a scam because he asked us for 1000 dollars and he wouldn show us proof.

HTFU

26th Oct 2009, 09:20

Alex you will find some real jokers in aviation, if it's not the prick colleague that wants to stab your back to get more hours or move ahead in the company faster than you, to the idiot boss that wants to hold back your progression onto better aircraft. Unfortunately the industry if full of these disgruntled morons with chips on thier shoulders and hero's with something to prove, and then there are also the parasite scammers wanting to cash in on your desperation for a job, which you seem to have run into, cheer up mate you will run into more of these :mad:'s on our journey within aviation just keep your wits about you and don't let yourself be suckered in...:=

Massey058

26th Oct 2009, 12:04

And what's this about local Indonesian pilots not wanting to become F/O's for turbo prop operations? If that was true, then who are crewing their current fleet of CN 235s, and Twotters?

training wheels, there aren't that many CN235's or Twotters around now. Most of the Twin Otters are in Papua and an awful lot of them have been crashed - some repaired to fly again mind you.

It does seem that the big shiny jet syndrome is more pronounced in Indonesia and you can't much blame the wannabes. Lion Air are hiring like crazy as they only have 26 of their ordered 178 737-900ER so far. Garuda are expanding as are LCC Batavia. She's all go and with only 2 flying schools in the country the wannabes can turn their nose's at horrible little things with propellers on them.

frigatebird

26th Oct 2009, 23:01

Massey
Well I love props. Be they Twotters, Bandits, Metros, ATR's whatever..
Let me know if you want a captain anytime..

stick&rudder15

26th Oct 2009, 23:30

Ill take a cruise F'O hahahaha

FHV

28th Oct 2009, 00:31

I work with Bill Whitworth and spoke to him this morning regarding this issue.
Bill requested that I let you guys know that Whitworth Aviation has no links regarding this ad and interviews on that day .
Whitworth Aviation was approached By Richard to borrow the room for that day at no cost. To which Bill agreed, as Richard does visit the school now and then, that is all
As far as the recruitment or any related matters to the interview Whitworth aviation is not involved in

HTFU

28th Oct 2009, 09:39

So whats the story now has anybody been given a start date or a ticket to indo?

training wheels

29th Oct 2009, 08:53

Guys, all calm down. its all legit, and YES I have done all my homework, called around everywhere and spoken to everyone I could think of. (Indo's migration in Sydney, HR, Company director, check and training captain, training center). I was selected in the first group and yes I confirmed this with the Indo's.

Not doubting you meds, but that's a pretty impressive list of people you contacted. So, did you speak Bahasa to them? And which fleet will you be training on, given that the Merpati training centre, based on the website quoted above only does ratings for 737s and Twin Otters.

I also got the confirmation that my work permit is underway and it will be ready in 3 weeks from now. This was confirmed by HR in the company.

Some of the Susi Air guys have been there for over a year and still (allegedly) don't have their work permit, and you can get one in 3 weeks? Power to you! :E LOL!

Superfly Slick Dick

29th Oct 2009, 09:26

"he was under stick orders from the company not to disclose any information till people get selected, so we can see who is really interested"

This sounds pathetic, wake up. Business does not operate like that.
Nor does a business say something like "we want to give younger pilots a fair go" Bahh !

Seriously boys, If I were any of you considering handing over $1000 to something that smells this bad, Id take the money to Star City Casino. Im serious. You would have much greater enjoyment (and better chance of returns) than with this rubbish of smoke and mirrors aimed at exploiting some newbies.

training wheels

29th Oct 2009, 12:10

Hi training wheels, the endorsement will be done in Bangkok or France, not Indonesia as they don't has the facility there. I was told I would be in Bangkok.

Look here "http://www.asianatr.com"

The only problem with that story is that Merpati doesn't have any ATRs in its fleet.

Here's a list of Merpati's fleet (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/aircraft.php?search=set&airline=MZ&al_op=1); no sign of them purchasing ATRs in the near future either.

Superfly Slick Dick, call the company your self and speak to HR, they will give you the rundown.

Which company do you refer to, meds? Merpati? Please PM me their phone number; It'll give me a good chance to brush up on my Bahasa! :)

highflyer87

29th Oct 2009, 13:04

meds, the question yet to be answered is.... what exactly is the $1000 for???

j3pipercub

29th Oct 2009, 13:09

Highflyer,

I do believe, talking to a few, the 1k is a finders fees as such.

j3

Massey058

29th Oct 2009, 13:22

This sounds pathetic, wake up. Business does not operate like that.

Things operate a bit differently in Indonesia.

The only problem with that story is that Merpati doesn't have any ATRs in its fleet.

ANTARA News: Merpati to procure 22 aircraft up to 2010 (http://www.antara.co.id/en/news/1256271027/merpati-to-procure-22-aircraft-up-to-2010)

Although the Merpati President Director it seems is a 'problem child' so as always seeing will be believing.

the wizard of auz

29th Oct 2009, 13:54

Which company do you refer to, meds? Merpati? Please PM me their phone number; It'll give me a good chance to brush up on my Bahasa!
Saya mau satu bintang bir, Talong. :ok:

training wheels

29th Oct 2009, 20:28

Saya mau satu bintang bir, Talong. :ok:

ya bisa pak, tetapi yang dingin tidak ada. :ok:

training wheels

29th Oct 2009, 20:34

I also got the confirmation that my work permit is underway and it will be ready in 3 weeks from now. This was confirmed by HR in the company.

So it looks like you got the job, meds. Can you advise what was involved in the selection process? :E What type of questions did Merpati HR ask in the interview? Did you have to sit a psychometric test, sim ride? How many bir bintangs did you have to give to Pak Richard? ;) And BTW, is he from Indonesia?

highflyer87

29th Oct 2009, 22:34

In the article.. Merpati President Director Bambang Bhakti says 'The MA-60 airliners which have the capacity of 20 seats will be used as passenger planes'.... to my knowledge MA-60s are 50-60 seaters??... Maybe just another media blunder. But I'd be inclined to wait and see how the first batch of FOs go, before I believe anything of what has been said.

krankin

30th Oct 2009, 09:24

Has anyone taken the time to look at this mob's safety record ? :eek:

Its not pretty to say the VERY least! You's have to be VERY game to sign on with these guys!

the wizard of auz

30th Oct 2009, 12:40

ya bisa pak, tetapi yang dingin tidak ada.
Waaah.... Tidak apa apa. :}

Wyle E Coyote

2nd Nov 2009, 01:50

I do believe, talking to a few, the 1k is a finders fees as such.

Hell, if anyone's gullible enough to pay 1K for this, I'll be putting my own advert on AFAP next week.

I hope those who have got the "jobs" keep posting their experiences. This is a great read:ok:

HTFU

2nd Nov 2009, 02:50

Hey wyle, I'll gladly pay you 1K if you can Guarantee a Multi turbo prop job with a fixed term contract

Howard Hughes

2nd Nov 2009, 04:21

In life there are no guarantees...;)

Andy05

2nd Nov 2009, 05:55

Hi Meds,
I hope for your sake and the others that this actually works out for you all, opportunities sometimes come round in the strangest ways and I applaud you for the courage to take it and I hope you can look back at all the ones who made fun of you or discouraged you to take this chance and share with us all the adventures and things you learnt over there. I realise that other countries do things very differently and we cant be narrow minded, saying that please do be careful and I'm sure you have done your due research and have made an informed and educated decision.
Just remember that whenever you attempt something thats a little out there or a little different or a little risky you'll find alot of people telling you it cant be done or thats stupid and try to descourage you, chances are its because they havent got the courage to do it themselves and sadly to say this industry knows how to bag out, back stab and make fun of there fellow pilots.
Good luck to you all and I hope you return to Oz with some awsome stories to tell of the adventure you've had over there.:ok:

rotatejunkie

2nd Nov 2009, 09:43

Hi Guys,
im curious to know if this Indonesian recruitment drive is solely targetting Aussies, or is it open to other nationalities as well?

And also perhaps a heads up on how the Company decides on who gets to the ATR or Xi'an aircraft fleet?

Safe landings

training wheels

2nd Nov 2009, 10:28

What I also find intriguing is that Merpati has just opened their Part 141 cadet pilot training school (http://sbumtc.net/sbumtc/content/view/239/26/). Approval was given in August this year, they have two C172s and will have ten more in 2010. If they have they own cadets, then why have this programme for non Indonesian nationals?

This is not "bagging the idea" as Andy05 puts it; just asking where it all fits in, in the larger scheme of things?

ksa5223

2nd Nov 2009, 10:38

I would say that:

a) most of the young topguns over there just want to fly jets and do get their own way bypassing flying turboprops.

b) Australia has a good standard of pilot's. Maybe this poaching will increase safety in the long run?

BTW: They are also seeking Aussie instructors to pilot those 172's you speak of.

training wheels

2nd Nov 2009, 10:52

Superfly Slick Dick

2nd Nov 2009, 11:05

Yeah mate, but that C172 instructing job'll cost you 1000 bucks thanks.;)

Wyle E Coyote

2nd Nov 2009, 22:11

Hey wyle, I'll gladly pay you 1K if you can Guarantee a Multi turbo prop job with a fixed term contract

You're right, but don't let this Multi Turbo-prop cloud your vision. All newbies get 'shiny jet syndrome' (my self included), but believe me, like your first dose of the clap, you will get over it.

I just suggest all involved are very cautious about handing over money for a job. If it looks like a fish, swims like a fish and smells like a fish, then it probably is a fish. And something here smells somewhat fishy.

training wheels

2nd Nov 2009, 22:16

So meds, you got the job without any interview, sim or psychometric tests? Or were these all done last week by Merpati HR?

frigatebird

2nd Nov 2009, 22:35

Good on you medsdeb for having a go.
And good to see overseas managements recognising the good training given in Aus. If you are keen, you will enjoy the ATR and the change of culture, and develop more of a World outlook on aviation than the sometimes bitchy competitive struggle one endures in a smaller environment. Also good to see those airlines prepared to take on other culturally different crew to reinforce safety in their patch too. You should always be prepared to speak up if you are not happy with some things. Your life may depend on it..!!

flyinkiwi10

3rd Nov 2009, 01:43

Hi guys, sounds like a bit of an ego stroke doesn't it? Can anyone say circle jerk? :rolleyes: (Not just cos I am a Kiwi)

The motive behind the recruitment of expats is not so high minded to me. There is a shortage of pilots in Indo. They only churn out 200 a year I hear. Not enough to cover expansion plans by the likes of Merpati, Lion, Garuda, Batavia, etc... all of whom are now seeking expats to top up the numbers. Which is good for expats needing a start. Very good if you can get a 737 rating and walk in to a job with 200 hrs like some...

If I was leasing ATR's to Indo I would add quite a few stipulations about experienced expats sitting in the front.

I would also be cautious about thinking that you are going to change the culture of Merpati and change the world.

Meds I haven't seen your PM's but I think classing them as positive and negative may be unhelpful. The point of this site is to get info from people who have been there and can give some pointers or a heads up. Few here would have flown for Merpati, but have seen them out and about and from that (and accident reports) have been able to glean quite a lot about how they operate.

Does anyone have first hand accounts that justify the reputation? As passengers, pilots, or observers?

Do your research and go in with your eyes open. I would think twice, and thrice before boarding one of their flights as a passenger... let alone as a line FO.

You should always be prepared to speak up if you are not happy with some things. Your life may depend on it..!!

Some of the stories I have heard would make you break out in a cold sweat... I am sure it is all different now :ok:.

I for one would like to genuinely wish you the best of luck and would like to hear back - the full story - when you have been there for six months.

krankin

3rd Nov 2009, 04:18

I can't believe what i am seeing! All of the reply's so far on SEVEN pages has ONE mention (Other than my previous one) of their safety record.

Google this airline and you will find an amazing amount of accidents and incidents involving Merpati aircraft.

Flyinkiwi10 is thwe only person to make comment on this issue which i find just amazing :sad:

It worries me that of so many people on here only two so far have thought about their safety culture! :ugh:

cbradio

3rd Nov 2009, 05:56

edit: :eek:

it was a genuine question considering the topic btw - just curious that you may have been Indonesian.

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent

I really wish you good luck!!

j3pipercub

3rd Nov 2009, 06:31

awww cb, do you lack the testicular or instestinal fortitude to leave what you first wrote up?

j3

Massey058

3rd Nov 2009, 06:39

Too true Krankin, although I did mention theirs and other operators safety or lack thereof and allude to their Twotter wrecks earlier. The peliminary report for the fatal CFIT crash they had this year has been released on the Indonesian NTSC web site here (http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_home/ntsc.htm).

Oh and the abandoned CN235 I mentioned, seems they are playing musical parts at the moment as the previously serviceable one has cancelled its schedule and is parked next to it as bits and pieces come off.

Flyinkiwi10 is speaking a lot of truth. Despite the GFC Indonesia has good growth and the airlines are all continuing to expand with a vengence. The primary motive for the hiring expats is most certainly not safety. Lion Air are after all taking 200 hr guys from Europe who are freshly 737NG endorsed (at their own expense naturally).

But back to Merpati, their President Director (CEO) Bambang Bhakti is somewhat of an embarrassment it seems. The MA60 deal was signed without the proper approvals and has caused the Government major headaches since. They had to return some 737's as they couldn't afford to fly them. This new term for SBY could conceivably see the Merpati issue dealt with.

To top it all off there was another CFIT accident yesterday in Papua - a Police PZL Skytruck, flying a route that I have done a countless number of times. Its horrificly sad but so incredibly frustrating that the same thing keeps on happening.

SPEEDI

3rd Nov 2009, 07:19

oh now i wanna know what he wrote:(

frigatebird

3rd Nov 2009, 11:30

Krankin
Don't look backwards all the time. Thats not how you fly an aircraft, by looking in the rear view mirror. My post was about being an agent for improvement in safety in the Future. That said, in the past, I have learnt much from reading the investigations into the misfortunes of others, and the advice at the end of the post was still to be wary and apply what we in the Antipodes call 'Common Sense'. Some management will always be bad management, just keep that sort of management out of a cockpit..

krankin

3rd Nov 2009, 17:43

I dont look backwareds when flying, theres a big tail there that stops me from doing it.

With regard to working for an operator that has a record THAT BAD, my word i look backwards man!!

flyinkiwi10

4th Nov 2009, 05:17

Hi Frigate,

Exactly how much say do you expect FO's to have in a Merpati cockpit environment? If the Garuda (Merpati's bigger brother) Jogyakarta 2007 overrun report is anything to go by... very little. Sometimes (and I suspect frequently in this case) common practice contravenes common sense and you aren't the one making the call... so the only course of action may be to pucker those cheeks :ooh:.

Are they offering a time-line for future upgrades to LHS?

ksa5223

4th Nov 2009, 05:25

Commands on ATR or alike they want 4000TT. So at 900 hours a year for most, not very long.

HTFU

4th Nov 2009, 23:26

I don't think this mob is recruiting from aus to increase safety rather it's just a matter of convenience it would seem they have a pilot shortage and aus has an over supply atm, it's not the first time we've seen airlines recruit low timers, skippers picked up that bloke from fast track with a bare cpl and mecir, then there was qlink trainees with 250hrs and 100PIC, it's probably the indos are a bit behind on the recruitment cycle....

Wyle E Coyote

4th Nov 2009, 23:40

.........and money. It doesn't look like this is appealing to too many guys with the experience required by reputable airlines.

Good luck boys and girls...... you may need it

ksa5223

5th Nov 2009, 02:09

Regardless of the reasons why they are recruiting, it is still a very good opportunity. Beats the hell out of flying bugsmashers. multi crew environment, airline operations exposure. Whoever takes it on, after the 3year bond is set for life. By this time the industry will probably take a turn for the better, lots more aeroplanes will have been delivered and you can practically take your pick at who you want to fly for. Good Luck.

VH DSJ

5th Nov 2009, 05:16

Regardless of the reasons why they are recruiting, it is still a very good opportunity. Beats the hell out of flying bugsmashers. multi crew environment, airline operations exposure.

If you take on this opportunity, then good luck to you. But please don't come running to Pprune after six months and whinge about poor terms and conditions, low pay, poor safety record of this airline and so on. You know exactly what you're getting in to. Merpati is a government airline and one of the lowest paying airlines in the country. It's poor safety record speaks for itself.

And what's the bet some guys will even use Merpati's poor safety record as an excuse to break the 3 year bond when they find greener pastures back home? It's happened before (with SQ in the early 90's when they hired GA pilots from Aus, Canada and the UK) and I'm sure it will happen again.

HTFU

6th Nov 2009, 02:48

poor terms and conditions, low pay, poor safety recordSounds like your average GA operator, and punters still bitch and moan about them

frigatebird

6th Nov 2009, 22:10

fly
Can't speak for a Merpati cockpit, never got invited. But know even a Merpati Check Captain stupid enough to try to get me to do something unsafe or that I wasn't satisfied with would get short shrift.. The complaint and resignation would be offered on landing, no matter what the terms of the contract.. Have spoken up in the past, and it has cost me - but at least I can still sleep well at night.
The advice is the same to those F.O. Trainees who accept the offer, do what you can to improve the reputation of the company you're working for, gain skills to improve your own situation and marketability, and leave if you have to if it means survival. Just sitting around moaning about others didn't get Kingsford-Smith across the Pacific that first time..

HTFU

11th Nov 2009, 23:21

So what's the story so far, have the chosen few gone over and started training yet? if so what type????

momo155cm

16th Nov 2009, 05:33

Hello all,

I have read most of the threads here. GA made quite a lot of accidents before, aye. Their safety policy is now getting better than ever, according to the newspaper. I'm not sure when they got the permission to fly into EU country but GA is now finally accepted to land there. I hope they reach the world standard of safety soon.

I'm applying for GA cabin crew in Japan. They do have some of them, but this time officially is the 1st Japanese crew. Very very first one. It could be hard to make the base of foreign cabin crew, because there are no those who experienced from the same country. I am very interested in both working with Indonesian crew and making the standard for next coming up crew.

I'm glad I could listen your opinions about GA here.
Thank you all for being patient about my English grammar. And thanks again for reading this. Arigatou.

HTFU

25th Nov 2009, 05:45

So it's been a few weeks now, according to medsdebs timeline he should be flying in indo now, whatever happened to medsdebs posts?? that guy must've been full of hot air..:E

Hempy

25th Nov 2009, 07:34

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/5/4/9/1353945.jpg

Superfly Slick Dick

10th Dec 2009, 03:26

What is the latest in this interesting saga?
Can anyone tell us what has been happening?

HTFU

10th Dec 2009, 05:28

Well the most informative posts came from medsdeb
don't know why but most if not all of his previous posts have disappeared
any ideas??

Superfly Slick Dick

10th Dec 2009, 06:20

Well, HTFU, perhaps people are ashamed at the dissapointing outcome, and feel embarrassed to admit they were wishful thinkers?

Dont I sound pessimistic. But, its GA that has broken my spirit.

When I finally get into an airline, and have a REAL job, Im going to make and wear a t-shirt that says "I survived GA"

No wonder people aren't becoming pilots anymore. What a joke of an industry.
:ugh:

2b2

11th Mar 2010, 21:45

any news on this scam, oops scheme?

Same outcome as the NZ/US twin jobs, was it?

training wheels

26th Jun 2010, 01:26

any news on this scam, oops scheme?

Same outcome as the NZ/US twin jobs, was it?

No scam mate. The first group of Aussie pilots are in Jakarta right now doing their MA60 type rating course. After 3 or 4 weeks in Jakarta, they will then go to Xian, China for simulator. Type rating is all paid for by the company but a two year, $5000 USD training bond applies. If you ask me, it's a much better deal than the Jetstar or Qantaslink cadetships.

There's another MA60 type rating course starting in July and the manager has been asking for recommendations from the Aussie recruits. :ok: Merpati will be taking delivery of 3 MA60's from China every month from July through to October. A total of 15 MA60's will be operational by the end of the year.

ReverseFlight

27th Jun 2010, 00:19

I know what you posted is genuine.

Are you actually there ? How long do you have to work in Madura before you come on line ?

training wheels

27th Jun 2010, 14:55

I know what you posted is genuine.

Are you actually there ? How long do you have to work in Madura before you come on line ?

RF, yes, I'm in Jakarta. Check your email. :)

napiersabre

27th Jun 2010, 15:54

TW, I would appreciate any info you could share with us?

Neptunus Rex

27th Jun 2010, 16:00

training wheels
As part of your conversion onto this Chinese type, are you having to learn 'barbed wire writing?'

training wheels

27th Jun 2010, 16:27

training wheels
As part of your conversion onto this Chinese type, are you having to learn 'barbed wire writing?'

The FCOM is in English .. not the Queen's English, but understandable. There are also other resources such as a CBT package and PowerPoint slides which are written in English.

The course instructors so far have been speaking Bahasa Indonesia in class but there are a few people in the class who are fluent in both English and Bahasa and are helping to translate. The course participants are not just the Aussie recruits; the majority are infact Merpati captains changing types from CN235, F100 and B737 to the MA60 and some have a reasonable level of English and have been very helpful.

training wheels

15th Jul 2010, 16:37

TW, I would appreciate any info you could share with us?

napiersabre, check your PMs.

sixtiesrelic

16th Jul 2010, 00:18

Having done a year in Indonesia myself, it's interesting to read what some reckon they'd do IF...
Well it ain't Australia ... things are very different.
Frigatebird... you may not be able to get the next plane home after resigning.
Our passports were kept from us for months. On asking for them back we got "not yet" When we asked WHEN we'll get 'em back we got "soon". They are the words for "NO".
They don't have our directness. "No" isn't part of the language, it's too rude.
We tend to look at them as lying little b******* but they have different manners.
"It's dangerous in that country"... well I never felt much concern and I went down very narrow alleys in the dark. I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near "the Valley" after midnight here in Brissy for fear of copping a king hit or a knife in the guts from 'drunken little warrior' having a 'brain snap'.
Now you could be in an accident but there's much more chance that you won't.
You happily drive on Aussie roads every day and there are dozens of people so badly injured that they suffer for the rest of their lives from them. We don't hear about them because we only get the real beaut smashes.
We don't give the abject respect to out elders that other cultures do and if it's getting nasty WE'll take over.
You won't have to fight too hard either. 'im wot's prayin to his maker on the other side of the cockpit ain't 'oldin' onter anythin' .. 'es got the mits out in supplication.
If you hurt the bosses pride you'll get the sack and be sent home... you won't have to resign.
Go for the experience. You'll find the majority of Indonesians everything Aussies clain they are... fair and friendly.
Yep you are going to see lots of 'tips paid before the act is done" (More honest than the Yank past time of "paying the bribe after the act" ).
You'll get a real 900 hours per year, and you'll be more on the ball than the local FO's because you may really have to carry out the captain's duties as well as your own while he's sittin' acceptin' his fate.
Take cameras, and photograph EVERYTHING. They'll be great mementos in a few years.
The more discomfort you experience in life the more great stories you'll have to tell.
You'll also be a lot less judgemental about things you don't know all the facts about.