Direct ethernet connections

[The late XV105]

My new backup 2x1TB RAID1 NAS arrives later today but the network infrastructure that will allow it to be located in my garage roof (temperature and humidity specs are fine) won't be installed for a few more weeks.

I want to get it commissioned right away though and see three choices:


Place the NAS in the hallway next to the router but where the kids will play with it. No thank you. Not an option!
Place the NAS in my office but with a long cable that someone will eventually trip up on. No thank you. Not an option.
Place the NAS in my office and together with crossover cable (I have one) use the second gigabit LAN port on the media server that I want to back up.


Am I good to go with option 3, or does a matter of setup need to be considered first since (I presume) the NAS isn't going to be allocated an I.P. address? I'm happy to be corrected here since I've never tried direct ethernet connections before.


Cheers,
XV

[mixture]

Nothing wrong with a crossover cable. And it will behave no differently to a "normal" setup in terms of protocols etc.

In terms of NAS IP address, I'm afraid it's going to be a case of telling you to RTFM. You might find it will have a default IP set, or you might have to push buttons on the front. I don't know.

[Saab Dastard]

You will have to supply an IP configuration of IP address and subnet mask to both the NAS box and the 2nd Gb port on the media server - the IP addresses need to be on the same subnet, obviously.

It would also be necessary to ensure that the new IP subnet is not the same as the one you are using for the 1st Gb port on the media server (existing home network).

If you have console access to the media server, then you do not need to set up routing on the media server, but no other device will be able to reach it.

Otherwise you would need to configure the media server as a router, and configure static routes appropriately on various devices - e.g. a default route on the NAS via the media server and static routes on other devices.

Configuring the NAS could be "interesting", though - as mixture says, RTFM, very carefully!

I assume that the NAS will be wired in its final resting place, and the media server is wireless, yes?

SD

[Bushfiva]

The manual or internet should tell you what IP address it defaults to (warning, my experience is a numbingly stupid one) so you can just use the crossover cable and set the PC interface accordingly. Since you have a Gb port in the PC so it's quite recent, you may not even have to use a crossover cable since the port may be clever enough to work things out (mine is).

Udderwise, you can just put the unit on the LAN temporarily while you set the IP address to something reasonable, then connect it to the PC.

Udderwise2, you could run DHCP on the second port via one of the many free DHCP servers for Windows (assuming that's what you have) and not worry about either of the above. I used one by a German guy called Ruttge, Ruddge or something similar; it performed well.

[The late XV105]

Thanks Guys. Most helpful, and I think I have somewhat of a head start for when the NAS arrives even though it's clear that I won't know for sure what I need to do to make this temporary installation until it does. Stay tuned; I'll report back.

Eventually, when living in the Garage, the NAS will have a gigabit cable connection* to Netgear GS605 switch in my office** and from the switch to one of the two ports in my BT HomeHub in the hall. The switch will also connect to the media server (replacing today's WiFi connection to the HomeHub) and to the living room ready for when I purchase a PS3.

*Why am I not using the Netgear HDX101 Homeplug approach that I already use very happily and very successfully to connect HomeHub to secondary wireless access point upstairs that covers the garden? Because performance from the garage (which is on an electrical spur) via Homeplug is ho-hum for backing up large files. Performaing the same trial file copy ten times between the same two laptops took between 0:55 min and 1:05min entirely via Wifi between office and garage and 5:20min and 7:15min via both WiFi and temporary ethernet from office to HomeHub and then Homeplugs to the other laptop in the garage.

**Why haven't I laid the ethernet cable to the garage already if it's my intention to do so, thus negating the need for today's post as the NAS will be on the "normal" network? Because I want to be sure I won't have fried network cards (or worse) in event of electrical storm if I run cables under ground between two separate buildings with different ground potential. My friend who designs remote networks for a living is visiting at the weekend and already knows I'd like such discussion!

[mixture]

Netgear HDX101 Homeplug

Nothing beats a good quality CAT5e or CAT6 network. Certainly not wireless and almost certainly not "homeplug" type devices.

Electrical cables were never meant to carry data.

Because I want to be sure I won't have fried network cards (or worse) in event of electrical storm if I run cables under ground between two separate buildings with different ground potential.

Personally, I would go with fibre and media converters. Also, I'm sure you know this, but don't use standard cable for external applications, get something with a tougher shell (sorry, the correct word escapes me at the moment !) ... either that or encase it in something... your own mini-duct.

Might not be as expensive as you may think. Just needs more care during install, and if self-installing, use pre-terminated fibre, don't try DIY fibre termination unless you've done it many times over and got the correct fusing/testing etc. kit.

Finally, if you are insistent on copper based cable between buildings, you might want to look at shielded cable.

But don't quote me on the legalities/safety .... I'm not a sparkie, and as I made clear above, for me, once something leaves a building it's pretty much fibre or nothing (unless someone else like BT is installing and taking the blame for a copper solution :ok:)

[Mike-Bracknell]

Nothing beats a good quality CAT5e or CAT6 network. Certainly not wireless and almost certainly not "homeplug" type devices.

Yes...and No.

Having worked at Nortel for 9 years and then another wifi expert company for 4 i'm sure I could show you some wireless that's faster, just as reliable, and easier to install than Cat5e/6 :}

(but in general, you're right - which is why I replaced my Netgear homeplugs with Cat5E last month when I bought a new Samsung LED tv with built-in video streaming)

Incidentally, Netgear have just launched another set of Powerline adapters which are another step faster. We were beta-testing them for them for a while. :ok:

...oh and I too would concur on the use of fibre when going building-to-building. Also, lay 3 or 4 pairs - you never know when you'll need it, and it's as cheap as a single pair.

[mixture]

Mike,

Having worked at Nortel for 9 years and then another wifi expert company for 4 i'm sure I could show you some wireless that's faster, just as reliable, and easier to install than Cat5e/6

Alright then.... show me 1Gb WiFi .....at the same price point... :cool:

And since you've asked for it..... I dare you to come back and say wifi beats fibre.... :ok:

Also, lay 3 or 4 pairs

I concurr..... much like a print run, the prep work is the expensive bit of cabling (trunking etc.)..... after that, it's a false economy not to give yourself some future proofing in terms of a few extra cables.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Alright then.... show me 1Gb WiFi .....at the same price point...
Who mentioned cost? :p

Show me Cat5e/6 that can run for miles at that speed without the need for additional equipment :}

[mixture]

Who mentioned cost?

Fair point !

Show me Cat5e/6 that can run for miles at that speed without the need for additional equipment

True, I forgot to ask XV105 whether he had some great big country pile which would introduce distance limitations. :ok:

Give me a few miles and the choice between radio or fibre and I would still choose fibre .... something like 90km (55 miles) repeater-less these days ? :p

[The late XV105]

Nothing beats a good quality CAT5e or CAT6 network. Certainly not wireless and almost certainly not "homeplug" type devices.

I'm well aware that ethernet will pretty well always beat Homeplugs hands down, thanks (and that mains wiring was not designed for data transfer!), but if consistent performance twixt garage and office had been in the circa 120Mbps band (and sometimes as high as 180Mbps) that I am getting across two separate electrical rings between hall (HomeHub v1 primary WiFi access point) and upstairs bedroom (Homehub v1.5 secondary WiFi access point) I would have tried to live with it. (a) It's so easy, and (b) I already own a spare Homeplug. That the garage connection sometimes drops as low as 10Mbps Tx and Rx and usually hovers around 30 means it's a non starter!

As I sit here still awaiting the sound of a clattery diesel engine in white van outside I'm enjoying your game of tennis with M-B :)

30-all at the time of writing!

[The late XV105]

Personally, I would go with fibre and media converters ... Might not be as expensive as you may think.

An interesting thought, thanks, mixture.

I fleetingly thought of fibre and then discounted a nano-second later precisely on the grounds of cost-benefit.

I'll take a proper look so I'm prepared for my Sunday afternoon conversation with network designer friend.

[mixture]

XV105,

I'll leave you to your own researching devices as it seems to be a little DIY pet project of yours.....

However, if you have difficulty getting to grips with it (or finding cheap media converters or cable assemblies), let me know and I'll point you in the right direction.

(Updated to remove the last bit. If you've already read it PM and I'll explain why I removed it - essentially because it was singlemode and you might find your application will be ok with multimode... which is cheaper overall..... ).

[The late XV105]

I'll leave you to your own researching devices as it seems to be a little DIY pet project of yours..... However, if you have difficulty getting to grips with it


Thank you, kind Sir! :)

How right you are, too! My wife rues that I always have to have a project (usually to do with technology) going on and as soon as one is finished (never in parallel as I make sure I never leave one half baked), I'm already starting the next one.

(Yeah... White van just arrived...)

[The late XV105]

Blimey that was easy!


Unpack the box
Connect the NAS to the second Gigabit Lan port on the media server using a normal cat 5e cable as you guessed, Bushfiva, not a crossover
Connect transformer
Wait three minutes for NAS to boot
Run autodiscover software
Device found
Backup schedule created
Backup in progress

No messing, and how technology should be according to my wife!

As a Brucie Bonus the NAS (a Western Digital MyBook World Edition II with 2x1TB RAID 1) comes with subscription to the MioNet web remote access service that is free for the life of the unit. My wife is now even happier because it means I don't need to rebujild her old laptop as a Linux-engined FTP server for sharing photos and videos with friends and family around the globe; they can simply be granted a read-only MioNet account instead, running on the NAS. Nice, but I've now got to think of another project! :)

[green granite]

but I've now got to think of another project!

You can come and help me with mine, rewire a 28-300mm zoom lens, the aperture ribbon cable has snapped, only cost me a few quid on ebay so if it ends up as a paperweight it doesn't matter.

[daved123]

GG, may I recommend this link for some helpful tips ?
YouTube - UC Berkeley E128 Final Project - Canon 10D DSLR v2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-HiBDLVzYw)
posted by one of our contributors - oh, it was you !
Was this before or after you found the ribbon cable problem....
DD

[Ancient Observer]

In defence of homeplugs.

For those of us for whom deep-techie knowhow is never going to happen, Homeplugs are great.
I get 1.9 whatnots per whatever, and my homeplugs share that to the quite a long way away 2nd puter at about 1.85. The wireles laptops lurking around the house do OK, but we've got thick internal walls, so they're not 100% reliable..

She who must be obeyed does not want more cables around the house, and I'm not about to drill thru all the joists.

So - Homeplugs have a place!!!

[green granite]

I knew what the problem with the lens was likely to be before I bid for it, it was meant to be a project to keep me occupied for a while. I'll never learn :ugh:

[The late XV105]

Personally, I would go with fibre and media converters ... Might not be as expensive as you may think.

Followed by


An interesting thought, thanks, mixture. I fleetingly thought of fibre and then discounted a nano-second later precisely on the grounds of cost-benefit. I'll take a proper look so I'm prepared for my Sunday afternoon conversation with network designer friend.

I had the conversation with said friend yesterday and although he stressed "I wouldn't normally advocate running copper outside a building and fibre would certainly be the norm" we agreed that in my case the cable can be run in an existing cable conduit and looking at the topography involved the risks are low. Cable it will therefore be, and I have my next project :)

Cheers!
XV

[mixture]

We meet again XV105 .... :cool:

Thanks for the update and don't worry, no hard feelings ! sniff..sniff...

Enjoy the lil' project ..... we'll have to find something more challenging for you next time ... :ok:

[The late XV105]

Job done!

As documented, the NAS is a RAID1 Western Digital Mybook World Edition II 1Tb. It now lives in the garage as is used as part of the backup strategy for my work laptop, my wife's Netbook, and a media server with truck loads of photos and videos in the monitored folders to which I copy things when I'm done with editing them. It is also used for streaming music from our large collection of CDs that I've ripped over the years. Plugged in to the NAS is a 1Tb Seagate USB HDD loaded with non-HD and HD movies. I have made a vented secure box, with the vents covered by fine mesh to stop creepy crawly ingress.

Having discounted using fibre on the grounds of cost and complexity (not least radiusing some of the corners necessary) I have run Cat 5e cable from the garage roof to a Netgear GS605 gigabit switch in my office, from the switch to the living room ready for when I buy a PS3, from the switch to the media server, and from the switch to the HomeHub elsewhere in the house. I am getting gigabit performance on all runs except to HomeHub as it only supports 100Mbps but this is fine as I don't need to stream HD to the ethernet over mains or the wireless sections of the network.

All buried cable runs in an old (dried out) bright yellow hose pipe for ease of visibility if I need to locate it (or if anyone finds it by accident) and as basic protection. By coincidence the pipe outside diameter is a nice snug fit in to the 22mm diameter rigid tubes that lead to the stubs on the circular plastic inspection boxes that I used to cover the holes through outside walls. These boxes have sealed lids and the holes in the walls were sealed with mastic so the Cat 5e should be fine for very many years.

The house and the garage are electrically bonded by sheathed 10mm lightning conductor cable to try and equalise ground potential in the event of a lighning strike to either.

I learned a new skill in all this too; how to terminate Cat 5e cables with RJ45 plugs! Thankfully my employer lent me a high quality crimp tool for the job (okay, and gave me all the cable, plugs, and strain relief boots too!) so the only tricky part was keeping the strands in the correct sequence whilst trimming to max 1/2 inch and then keeping them aligned whilst inserting in to the plug. The first one took 20 minutes and three "trims" before I was happy, but by the end I was shelling them like peas. No wasted plugs, either. For anyone else needing to do it, I found this guide helpful: CAT5 Stripping and Terminate - Ch 1 (http://www.swhowto.com/CAT5_Ch1.htm)

So, after all this work and aching muscles, how does it work?

Just great! :)

Backups that took an age over an ostensibly 54Mbps full strength WiFi connection are now done in little more than a blink. Non-HD movie streaming that was sometimes blocky over WiFi even when nothing else was competing for air space with it is now rocky steady. In fact, the same applies to HD movie streaming from the USB HDD plugged in to the NAS at the same time as hammering the NAS RAID1 mirror with several large backups and audio streaming to two internet radios. No User would ever know the others were there. Perfect! Even HD movie buffering in such a scenario is now done within a couple of seconds versus 30+ seconds for non-HD buffering over WiFi.

WiFi has it's place in the home (I still have two internet radios, a Netbook, two laptops, and a printer so connected via two access points), but then so does Cat 5e as I have proven :)

Happy camper!
Well worth the effort.
Now to enjoy :)

Thanks for the help and advice in this thread.

XV

[mixture]

Hello XV,

I was about to post here today to find out whether you were still alive or were killed off by this project (or a stray lightning bolt !).

So, what's your next project then.... can't have you sit there twiddling your thumbs.

[The late XV105]

So, what's your next project then?

Something far more tricky than installing a NAS in the garage and running gigabit wiring... Living dangerously and planning as a surprise a 10th wedding anniversary holiday for next spring!:)