What to look for in an instructor school?

[Steve888]

(This was already posted in the Flying Instructors & Examiners (http://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners-17/) forum, but got no replies, so I'm trying again here)

I'm currently training for a multi-engine command instrument rating at Archerfield in Brisbane, Australia.

Once I finish (around the end of the year) I'd like to continue with an instructor rating.

I'm now at the point where I would like to start looking into the various schools in the area (SE QLD, northern NSW) at their instructor rating courses.

Before I start making some initial calls, I want to create a list of things I should be looking for in a good course.

At this stage, my thoughts are:
Aircraft type (therefore cost)
Average time to complete course (have heard full time courses usually around 3 months)
Start dates
Average number of students per course
Potential for job at conclusion
Industry contacts the school/instructors have for future employment
Potential for charter work with the school
Total number of students/instructors at the school (indicator of job prospects)
General vibeIf anyone can add anything to this list, that would be great. The plan is to give some schools in the area a ring first to get initial information, then go and visit and talk to instructors, CFI, see the school etc.

Or if anyone recommends a school, let me know (by PM if you don't want to post publically).

Thanks!

[VH-XXX]

You have missed the most important one of all.

- Proven track record (with references)

There will be cases where if you got your rating at school "X" that you may not be considered for emplyoment, or atleast not as highly regarded until you get some experience.

[training wheels]

I agree with XXX. Find a school that's got a good a reputation for producing good instructors. I don't know any myself (unlike IFR schools with good reputations like Bini's and JAS). And from what I hear off the grape vine, CASA FOIs are getting really picky with the language you use in your briefs. Some have been known to fail the brief, simply by using non standard terms.

And it's a pity there aren't any flying schools that specialises in flight instructor training as I believe flight instructing is a specialised field, just like how aerobatics is. And IMHO spin recovery should be taught in a Flight Instructor's course, even if it's not instructed to students these days. Find a school who will teach you this.

[rodrigues]

I thought spin recovery was already being taught in the FIR course?

[das Uber Soldat]

It is. The rest of this sentence exists solely to pass the minimum character limit of pprune. Thanks for reading.

[training wheels]

Well, looks like some schools get away without teaching it, hence the recommendation.

[Polymer Fox]

It is

I'm pretty sure the minimum requirement for FIR is a demonstration of the recovery technique from the incipient stage of the spin BUT it is not a requirement for the potential instructor to actually perform or be endorsed on the maneouver.

[Zoomy]

Spin recovery is a requirement, but you are not required to teach it therefore do not have to patter through one in the test.

Back to the topic:
A good Flight Instructor school should,

1. Have allocated resources both Staff and A/C, committed to the course, ie not disappearing on charters, ect.

2. Have a qualified ground instructor, ie one who knows what the heck it is there trying to teach.

3. More than competent Gde 1 staff who are patient and love to pass on the required knowledge.

To be Fair:
A good FIR candidate should,

1. Do the required revision before starting the course, ie read the Day VFR syllabus, revise CPL theory and research different books other than Trevor thom and Bob Tait. These days you need more than that level to get a gde3.

2. Not be a, Ive got the cash I'll do this for fun and not give a hoot person, The industry is full of them and it actuallly drives wages down, - go get a charter job and be done with it.

3. Read CASA's Authorised Testing Officers MAnual, downloadable from there website. ie HAve an idea of what will be required of you at the end of the course.

[Steve888]

Thanks all for the great responses.

Zoomy, what are some books you might recommend in addition to the usual Bob Tait theory books?

And in addition to training wheels' comment, does anyone know of a school with a good reputation, or alternatively, a school with a bad one (PM probably best for this).

Finally, for anyone who is currently an instructor, what sort of time should a full time course (4-5 days per week) take from first starting to test day?

Cheers

[777WakeTurbz]

Shouldnt take much more than 4 weeks at 5 days a week for even a slower learner, when i did mine i had it done in 3 and so did the guys i was doing it with. Mind you this is if you do your IREX prior to the course.
Are the courses you heard taking 3 months including the IREX study and exam? If so it still seems excessive by at least 4weeks if it is in fact full time.

[TSIO540]

Make sure they teach you HOW to teach not just WHAT to teach!!!!! I.e. Have a look or talk to them about how much they cover on PMI.

Have a look at the classroom equipment, do they have projectors? do they already have briefing material for you to present?

Finally, for anyone who is currently an instructor, what sort of time should a full time course (4-5 days per week) take from first starting to test day?

I would say a full time course should take at least 8 weeks. They will all tell you less but expect that much, possibly up to 12 weeks. Delays can come from getting a CASA FOI to test you, aircraft going U/S, bad WX especially in SE Qld over summer, however the usual cause of delay's is the flow on effect of instructor candidates taking an extra 10 mins here and 5 mins there to get ready especially by the end of the day when everyone is shagged leaving a little each day to be carried over to the next.

You could try asking the bigger schools like China Southern WA Flying College, Flight Training Adelade or Singapore Flying College about where they typically hire new instructors from and go learn there!

BTW: the US FAA Instructor's Handbook is gold if you can get your hands on it

[ReverseFlight]

Extending on Zoomy's comments:

1. Does the school have a syllabus for the ground portion of the FIR syllabus ? If so, where the hell did they get it from - CASA does not have one, is not close to publishing one, and even CASA appointed ATOs are disagreeing among themselves as to elements of basic aerodynamic theory under the syllabus ? Or will the flight school be honest enough to tell you there isn't one but one is being attempted to be drawn up / in the pipeline ?

2. Does the school have a syllabus for the flight portion of the FIR syllabus ? If so, what do they base it on ? CASA's Flight Instructor Manual ? If so, are they aware that there are a number of errors in that handbook ? Are they able to point out what these are ? How do they intend to resolve such errors with CASA at test time ?

3. Are there dedicated instructor(s) involved in delivering the FIR course, or are other instructors also pulled in ad hoc ? Are the "dedicated" instructors aware whether they are teaching the same course content ? Talk to each of such "dedicated" instructors - do they agree with each other on every aspect of the syllabus ? It's too late if you only find out on the course.

4. How do they intend to teach aspects of PMI ? Regurgitating verbiage from FAA's Instructor Manual is hopeless. Do they talk about theory devoid from practical instruction ? Ask to sit through one of their FIR briefings and note how they actually teach and what the students are getting.

5. What materials do they recommend students besides Bob Tait or Trevor Thom ? How do they know whether such materials cover the syllabus in the appropriate depth ? Do they prefer FIR students to do whiteboard briefs (the usual complaint is they take too long to put up) or on PowerPoint (the usual complaint there is that an audience cannot cross refer to different parts for confirmation of understanding). Is there really such a thing as a winning formula ?