SAA "Old Boys Club"

[tuirbo tim]

I had a call from a mate of mine who is a F/O with Mango, and he tells me that some of the newly retired SAA Captains will be getting a direct entry command with Mango.

He says he and the other F/O will now be held back again from command, but their union is not very strong and has been overidden by management.

Can anyone confirm this, as I have my application in with them and am waiting to see if I get an invite for selection.:ugh:

TT

[Goffel]

I to have heard the same rumour....apparently one of the soon, (or has), to retire captains is soon starting as a captain at Mango.

Apparently he refused the co-pilot position.

Goffel...:E

[four engine jock]

Mango Is Saa Guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lvdriver]

This is really is a really bad move for Mango- not because the person in question is not a good candidate- he's part of the SAA Airbus Aerobatic team! but rather what message does it send to the Mango FO's? Basically you are a career FO if you want command then you have to leave and go elsewhere. Given the fact that there will always be a steady stream of retiring SAA Captains the Mango FO group are screwed if this continues.

This practice screws up the industry as it disrupts the natural progression cycle top to bottom. Bottom line is these individuals dont need the cash, they are all getting retirement benefits so they are taking money out of the younger guys pockets.

[Avi8tor]

Said it before and I will say it again.....get the government out of owning airlines.

The fact SA has three(3) state owned airlines defies belief.

[beechbum]

Uh? What SAA Airbus aerobatic team? Am I missing something.....
Airbus's doing aerobatics....interesting!:confused::confused::confused:

[beechbum]

Avi8tor......on your government owned SAA bashing high horse again...... :bored: :bored:.........yaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwnnnnnnnnn!!!

[lvdriver]

Uh? What SAA Airbus aerobatic team? Am I missing something.....
Airbus's doing aerobatics....interesting!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif:con fused:


Refers to the special group who do all the SAA formo flybys.

[beechbum]

Aaah get you now! You mean all the 737 formo displays at the airshows..!!!

[lvdriver]

Affirm, plus all the 340 ones over JZ's office among others.

[lvdriver]

Dont think a union is going to make much headway there. Management can pretty much do as they please. Debate seems to be a low priorty.

[divinehover]

I have to agree here. If there are F/O's with the required experience (hrs, sectors ect ect) who are been bypassed by someone who has enjoyed a 40yr career and finished earning 2 bar a year, it's unfair. The union needs to get it's arse into gear and either stop this or get the guys bypass pay.

[lvdriver]

All of these retiring SAA Captains have had all the benefits of working for the national carrier- benefits that continue through their retirement, thinks like concessionary travel, monthly pension payment etc.

Any money they make out of their time at Mango is pocket money- compare that to guys who are working their way up the ladder- I stand to be corrected but as I understand the guys and gals at Mango have no pension plan, no medical aid and are paid less than their contemperies at the other domestic airlines- save maybe link.

So what happens when it comes time for a salary increase- vital to those who have no other form of income- do you think the SAA old Boys club will support the rest of the crew in pushing for better terms and conditions? Probably not.

[Carrier]

Read this thread: http://www.pprune.org/canada/387239-forced-retirement-declared-unconstitutional.html

Some of the posters on here need to drag themselves into the 21st century regarding human rights. Countries with advanced human rights have no age limit for pilots. In such countries pilots may continue to fly commercially for as long as they are able to meet the recurring competency and medical checks. That is as it should be.

Nobody should be forced to retire as long as he is capable of performing at his chosen occupation. Learn to compete, Bozos! Nobody says you have to stay with an employer you are not satisfied with. Move on to another employer who offers more pay or a superior position. If you cannot find this then you are obviously getting what you are currently worth where you are so quit whining.

[nugpot]

Read this thread: Forced retirement declared unconstitutional


Carrier

What does a Canadian retirement case have to do with Direct Entry Captains in Africa????

I see that thread was started by you, are you getting paid for each view?

[Q4NVS]

If SAA approve movement from SAA to Mango then there should be no problem with the guys moving from Mango to SAA then.

AFAIK that is indeed the case - there has been more than one Mango FO move on to SAA, bypassing the P3 Duty and employed directly onto the 738 as an FO.

After all they were current...and SAA Trained.

Not saying it is right or wrong, just that it does/did happen !

:zzz:

[divinehover]

Dear Carrier

You truly missed the point. This has nothing to with age. It would be as scandalous if a 40yr (or 30 if there ever was one) old SAA Capt joined Mango as a direct entry Capt when there were Mango F/O's waiting for their slot.

DH

[cforty7]

The point is being missed here.

Some person whom enjoyed a full aviation career to the point of retirement is now stopping the chain with only 3 or 4 persons getting upgrades/new jobs in stead of the whole chain moving ending up with a new 200hr pilot starting to earn a salary and paying the loan/daddy.

This 200hr pilot gets desperate, and are prepared to work for less/nothing to get the required experience (which has just been moved higher due to high time old folks still around) which in turn takes away the power of negotiation due to the fact that there are people willing to work for less. This in turns will force the younger bunch to retire later because they didn't earn enough to retire.

Basically, if you had your turn, retire, or go give it back at a flight school so that your knowledge and experience gets put to good use and keep this industry the way it used to be...prestigious.

[lvdriver]

You've hit the nail on the head:ok:

[Q4NVS]

Basically you are a career FO if you want command then you have to leave and go elsewhere. Given the fact that there will always be a steady stream of retiring SAA Captains the Mango FO group are screwed if this continues.

Not True, if you meet the requirements...

These days I surely see more "young" MANGO Captains than "old" Ex-SAA one's. After just 16 Months with MANGO (and coming off a J41), a young FO was recently signed out as a Captain at MANGO.

I am (hopefully) many years away from retirement, and thinking, why would I retire at 63 when I could at least retire at 65 - If I didn't win that Euro Lotto :{

When one retires from SAA, he/she is surely replaced by another "upgrade" and possible new intake at the bottom - so it is a vicious circle.
(plus 1 minus 1 plus 1 etc.)

:zzz:

[Greeson]

As much as I was looking forward to seeing an orange 800 at the next inauguration, rumour has it, the above mentioned SAA retiree/ Mango appointee captain will still do all the flypasts etc at SAA even though he's retired. Again it's a rumour in the corridors, but nothing surprises me nowdays.
I can feel the panties a'bunchin'.

[snosrap]

Just my five cents, I very much doubt it, there will be a flippin' riot....

Maybe there will be a roll to play for him from Airshow South Africa's perspective but 'poling of the aeries' - It ain't gonna happen.. There are numerous highly competent airshow pilots within the ranks who have been blooded to fill those boots.

[Sir Osis of the river]

Slightly off topic but,

How many more money wasteing flypasts are planned anyway?

Back to the topic, I think F/os should be given first shot at vacant command slots. Not DEC's

Sir O.

PS: I don't know anything about Mango. Was the vacant Command position advertised and is there a career bidding system at Mango?

[CJ750]

Are we talking about the same guy who organised the Harvards on the famous Vaal river flyby. :ouch:Seems he muscles in wherever he goes. Good luck to the Mango F/Os.

[B200Drvr]

At the end of the day, One Captain retiring due to International regs from SAA still leaves a vacancy there, if he fills a slot in Mango, (the same company) due to the fact that he is permitted to continue to fly domestic, is not unfair. Someone from Mango can still move up. His past career and what ever else he does has nothing to do with it, if He is not ready to retire, he should not be forced to, irrespective of how long he has been collecting big bucks!!

[ALPHA FLOOR]

I'd say this well known Capt. and father of 2 SAA F/O's should hang up the airline cap and fly his own aircraft for fun (lets face it he is a wealthy man). It's time to let go, but thats not his style - it's all about him and his nepotistic cronies first and foremost!

AFL

[johnriketes]

The pilots who are stepping on the f/o's toes by jumping straight into command seats would have been the first to moan and the loudest, if that had happened to them when they were f/o's. You could stake your life on it. You wanna know why they do it? Greed, pure and simple. Greedy :mad:g :mad:s.

When ever I have been offered a command position at a company one of the first questions I have asked is, "will I be standing on toes if I get the job?" If there are people that will be bypassed I don't want to know. If I did I could never hold my head up.

Hang on in there guys. Every dog has it's day and what goes around comes around.

[tuirbo tim]

Any idea when this "new" Captain started?

I hope my application will still be considered as I still have not got an interview date yet. :rolleyes:


TT