SAR training at St Mawgan

[[email protected]]

So after a costly (conservative estimates are over £20million) move of the SARF to Valley and the not quite closing of RAF St Mawgan, SAR training will again take place there in the near future but this time run by Augusta Westlands to train Algerian crews on the Super Lynx and EH101.

No doubt they will utilise what was 203 Sqn's accommodation - the irony is that it was Defence diplomacy that got AW the contract worth millions and that AW have been taking ex-mil SAR crews to become the training staff.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad - all that effort to move the SARF just before it is privatised and never actually saving any money by fully closing St Mawgan anyway:{

[vecvechookattack]

Agreed. But the North African contract is really very good news and so where the training actually takes place is by and large irrelevant....the good news is that the contract is taking place at all.

[[email protected]]

Not good enough news for the RN to allow it to take place at Culdrose which was plan A though:)

[vecvechookattack]

Culdrose wasn't the right place for it. Not enough hangarage (without moving 750) and not enough accommodation (Boscowan block is full and Keppel block is rat infested and has a severe ant/fly problem) and besides....there wasn't any driver for the North African project to be run from Culdrose.....It would have cost the RN far too much.

[Could be the last?]

So if it is AW teaching the Algerians, how come the ac are all painted in DHFS colours?

[vecvechookattack]

They are Algerian Colours. This contract really is very good for British industry. 4000 people have jobs because of this. This really is one of AW biggest contracts....£3.1 billion is a lot of dosh and will make Algeria the largest operators of the Merlin Helicopter outside of the UK.

Now, what Algeria want with 80 Helicopters which include 40 Merlins is a bit beyond me BUT if they are willing to pay then thats ok with me.

[Triple Matched TQ]

No space at Culdrose - Pull the other one. The 'biggest helicopter base in Europe' at one time with 'more movements per day than Heathrow'.

Take it from me - The place is dead quiet compare to a decade ago.

Well done Newquay for taking all the money to improve the infra structure! Lets hope its a success.

[LHR RW27L]

at one time with 'more movements per day than Heathrow'.

When exactly did this happen? In 1980 the average daily number of movements at Heathrow was 758 and now that number is up to 1315. That is a departure or arrival every 90 seconds.

[airborne_artist]

With four aircraft in each of a right and left handed circuit that's a potential fifty odd movements an hour for a start. Add in those departing/arriving from Predannack, the local area and the odd SAR movement and it soon tots up.

Nothing at weekends and block leave, mind you. I wonder if the stat "busier than Heathrow" might be a shade made up, but it was pretty busy at CU in the 70s and 80s.

[LHR RW27L]

With four aircraft in each of a right and left handed circuit that's a potential fifty odd movements an hour for a start.

8 aircraft doing circuits for an hour or so is hardly as busy as the arrivals and departures at Heathrow. Don't forget this is constant arrivals and departures, 7 days a week so I don't think you can really compare the two.

Add in those departing/arriving from Predannack

There was no mention of Predannack in his statement.

I also think you will find that Bessbrook Mill was the busiest Heliport at one time.

[west lakes]

Though, of course, operating at Newquay Cornwall Airport does remove the need for the trainees to learn how to operate under UK military ATC as well as how to operate the aircraft.

[6Z3]

Don't know about stats but Culdrose was hellishly busy in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.
705 NAS alone always had 14 lines every day from which 85 sorties/day was the norm; I believe 705's record sortie count was well over 100 with night flying included. Remember it was 4 ac a side plus 2 in the upwind precision area and one on the sloping ground. Same numbers at Predannack made 22 ac in the combined MATZ cct. add the Jetstream waves, the Hawk waves, and with the Sea King SAR and Trg Sqns (771, 706 and 810 NAS) and the SK FL'ers home (849HQ and Flts, 824, 820 and 814), there was always a queue of ac waiting to use either the cct, the local area, the IF areas, the formation areas , the confined areas, or athe sea areas.

Take it from me, a Jumbo arrival/departure once a minute was a walk in the park by comparison.

Now, Silverstone on race day might just have been a tadge more challenging...just for one day though.

Culdrose - Busiest operator of helicopters in Europe was no idle boast.

Very sad to see it today.

[Triple Matched TQ]

Pdk could accommodate 13 aircraft 4 left, 4 right, 2 precision left, 2 precision right and 1 joining/leaving.

Oh and nobody has to transmit on radios for normal circuits.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

the need for the trainees to learn how to operate under UK military ATC


Ha ha nice try! Like anyone would rather have civ fixed wing ATC with no rotary experience than mil RW-aware ATC!

[west lakes]

Like anyone would rather have civ fixed wing ATC with no rotary experience than mil RW-aware ATC!Oh so the two based rotary craft, the diversions from Culdrose, the Chinooks and visiting police assets that use the site don't count them?

Oh and handling any SAR assets that are within their airspace

[12Watt Tim]

Not to mention Trinity House West Lakes, and the fact that many of the NQY controllers do have military experience :ugh:

[SARREMF]

I think you will find this is for the Algerian SAR contract which is for 6 EH 101 and 4 Lynx. NOT 80 aircraft of which 40 are Merlin. I believe they are still actively trying to secure that one.

As to Newquay vs Culdrose. i think you will also find that all the space at Culdrose has been allocated for the next few years for various moves whilst refurbishement occurs. I believe the RN are happy to assist but just couldnt find any room at the inn.

As to St Mawgan. I believe AW looked at it because there was this huge fit-for-purpose building that would be perfect as a SAR training unit - oh, yes, its the old 203 Sqn building. Crabb, I see what you mean! How ironic!

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Fair point, the Newquay controllers have some RW experience. But which airfield's ATC sees more RW movements and is more familiar with SAR training activities?

[west lakes]

But which airfield's ATC sees more RW movements and is more familiar with SAR training activities?

I'll conceed that point, but perhaps it will be good experence for the NQY controllers. (some of whom had to learn how to deal with the UAS this year)


SARREMF, probably has hit the nail on the head

and the fact that many of the NQY controllers do have military experience
And even use some military ATC proceedures for Mil aircraft

[[email protected]]

Any truth to the rumour that AW got their rent back from the SW Regional Development Agency as part of an EU grant? And thus have ended up with a contract AND a place to run it from courtesy of the Govt!

[west lakes]

crabb
That wouldn't surprise me in the least (though some of it is EU money)

[leopold bloom]

courtesy of the Govt!
Surely you mean grateful taxpayers and our European cousins!:)

[Strictly Jungly]

I wouldn't rule out CU being utilised in the longer term either..............maybe now certain areas in Defence, predominantly in the Light Blue, will realise St Mawgan hasn't quite died yet!!!!!

SJ

[Wholigan]

some of whom had to learn how to deal with the UAS this year


UAS??? UAS??? I wouldn't let them near the place!!! AEF please?!?!?!

;)

[west lakes]

AEF please


OOOOPs sorry

[leopold bloom]

News (http://www.newquayvoice.co.uk/news/5/article/2828/):ok:
Another thoroughly researched and accurate piece from the Fourth Estate.:ugh:

[vecvechookattack]

Great news.... 50 jobs created... Fantastic news.

It is also nice to see that the Royal Naval Air Station St Mawgan will be re-opened.

[Rubber Duck]

LB, its an awful peice of journalism but we have to remember its the cretins at the Newquay Voice!

Wildly inaccurate, even when they were told they were going to run an inaccurate article they did it anyway... but still the real story is great news for the Airport!

[vecvechookattack]

Its not "Wildly inaccurate" really..... Missed the point a little but the main bulk of the story is correct. Wrong type of Lynx but its a Lynx just the same.

Apart from that then the story is pretty much on the mark

[Martin the Martian]

So is this to be an AW-run customer training facility for the Wildcat then?

[vecvechookattack]

Noooo.......This is going to be an AW-run customer training facility for the Super Lynx