Pension Sharing and Other Bits

[Been There...]

I know I shouldn't ask for IFA on here but here goes!!

I am in the process of sorting out finances for a divorce which is going pretty well (shock horror) but want to get some information before approaching the AFPS people tomorrow as I would like to nail this tonight if I can.

I know that my commissioned pension didn't start acruing until I turned 21 (some years ago) but when considering a pension split, should it be from 18 when I joined or 21 when the pension started acruing? Makes around 17k difference :( I am on RAF AFPS 75

Thanks, PMs welcomed.

Regards

BT

[Wander00]

GET LEGAL ADVICE - I know Caps means "shouting" - I am!!

[airborne_artist]

hen considering a pension split, should it be from 18 when I joined or 21 when the pension started acruing?

Doubtless a legal type will prove me wrong, but I can't see how a pension that you didn't then have at age 18 on joining can be taken into account if it had no value until age 21?

Your own solicitor must have an idea, and if they don't, then consider getting one who does.

[jayteeto]

Just been through this process and have a warning for you. Allow 6-12 months to get a reply. They do not answer the telephone, written requests only. They say they will reply within (I think) 20 days. After two months they sent me a letter asking for £96 to answer a question and then I waited for another 6 weeks for that reply. I then asked for a summary for pension sharing which cost another £120 and took 2 months. All this time I called and called and called. The helpdesk!!!!! will not put you through and only send the department an e-mail saying you have called. They get 10 days to reply to the e-mail, but never do. It is frustrating beyond belief, my solicitor told me to do it because she would charge £15 for each call and letter and it would have cost hundreds and hundreds of pounds. Make sure you read the helpful pensions advice on the MOD website, the helpdesk kept telling me everything I needed to know was there.....:sad:

Final advice............. :)

[Been There...]

Thanks jayteeto, CETV is already in hand.

To the others, thanks, I will get some more advice but I think AA is right...oh well...

Regards

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

On my day in court, her barrister claimed that the CETV was not an accurate figure, and that unless I agreed to a larger percentage offer, they would seek an adjournement and request a report from an independant actuary.

It was blackmail, pure and simple. And I gave in. Lost 10% more of my pension than I was expecting.

:{

And I got a parking ticket.

[jim2673]

Been thare and hasd exactly the same happen to me WRT independent valuation. Unlucky for me, i was 14 months away from IP point, CETV from Glasgow was 1/3rd value that independent valued it at......Ex walked out from court with less than was offered, no spousal or pension sharing order.

Cue 2 years on , and ex buying a place at peak of the market and houe prices continuing to crash i'm better off. Gratuity and savings will see me in my own pad mortgage free with 24Yrs OR7 AFPS 75 payment before i get out of bed.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I saw a presentation from this crowd:

The Forces Pension Society (http://www.forpen.org/)

Very impressed with what they do and their approach - as were most attendees there. I'll be joining.

[Al R]

Been there,

I hope that you have stopped making an AVC payments that you may have been making. I hate to sound mercenary, but anyone who has divorce even remotely on the horizon should strongly consider doing so. And have you considered offsetting or earmarking instead of sharing?

The pension sharing order refers to your accrued fund value on the day before you go to Court (hence the need to stop AVCs). The fund itself, up to the point it is split, is your exclusive property. Therefore the only part that has value is that part that has accrued. AA makes the point that if something does not exist, it cannot be shared.

Clivena Thomas used Human Rights and Gender legislation (without success) to highlight an unfairness. If your wife has a switched on solicitor, you may do well to anticipate being pinged with a (if applicable) modified maintenance order to make up for the difference in time between you retiring and taking benefits, and your wife being able to do so, at her age of retirement.

If you have not already independently instructed on the CETV, discuss with your wife the possibility that you'll jointly agree on one. It could save time and hassle. Finally, seek credible advice in the real world which may more accurately reflect the entire picture!

[zedder]

Shame you are not on AFPS 05. For those that are, if you are ever in this situation, a colleague who has been divorced tells me that if you leave before you are 55, there is no 'Pension' to be split until you reach age 65. The Early Departure Payments you receive from the date you leave until age 65 cannot be included in the 'negotiations'.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

zedder, I fear that is just crewroom gossip, although interesting. Her barrister will be fully aware of what benefits will be payable.

(I know of a Herc/Nimrod Flight Engineer - Al R*****y who said he could achieve this by PVRing a month before his full term, but I never heard if he was sucessful)

Any divorcee knows that you will be required to provide a CETV which starts it all off.


I would be interested in anyone else's view about me & jim2673's experience wrt the CETV not being worth the paper its written on.

At the very least, maybe we should be asking for our £172.00 fee to be refunded.

I didn't notice anywhere on the CETV smallprint stating that 'This CETV is probably complete rubbish and you will be royally shafted by the barristers'

[Fortyodd2]

Zedder & Sir Peter,
Best you both go and check the facts. I am on the previous AFPS having joined in 1977. At the time of my divorce, having provided the CETV for the purposes of pension sharing, the former mrs Fortyodd2 was most put out to discover that she would not get a penny until she reached pension age. This lead to her deciding that it wasn't worth going for. There was some very good info on the MOD website which was downloadable. This might be a good starting point.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/80916E89-5CB5-4DC3-A0A8-51BCA75E2C5C/0/20050419UMMP131PensionBenefitsonDivorce.pdf

Page 12 states: "If you are a member of AFPS 75 and the Pension Sharing order is made before the increase in the preserved benefits age on 6 April 2006, your former spouse will receive benefits at age 60 or when the order takes effect if that is later. If the Pension Sharing Order was made on or after 6 April 2006, payments to your former spouse will begin when they reach age 65 or when the order takes effect if that is later".

Good Luck.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Well mines done and dusted, but we are at cross purposes.

My dragon's solicitor was aware of the facts you mention, (she doesn't get it til she's 65)

But as I would get the remainder of my pension (in my case from age 51) they used that as a bargaining tool to demand a larger percentage share (in my case 10% more than I had expected.) It took me by surprise.

The reason for such black art is that the Pension is split on the issue of the PSO, using a cash value, and taking that from your pot. Then you might get the odd pay rise or promotion after the event.

I've put it behind me and moved on, (until I contributed to this thread.)

:{

Got off the parking ticket though! (Go on, ask me how I did that)

:)

[Al R]

You could have nodded sympathetically and say that however much you agree with your poor wives plight, your hands are tied by the law of the land. Smile, say thats its all desperately unfair but as much as you'd like to assist, your ex wife's gripe should not be with you, but with the Courts. The Courts will then tell her that pension legislation relating to division in divorce is that it is not to be treated as pay, but er.. as a pension. She wasn't in the RAF, and as such, does not have a retirement age as you did, in keeping with your terms of service. Her retirement age therefore, is 60 or 65.. so thats when she gets her pension.

Remind her that the CETV actuarial calculation was to value the pension, which is what you have done. If she then wants to start factoring in variables and plucking figures from the air intended to dissadvantage you, tell her you're planning on getting married to a 21 year old pole dancer and that you too, might have some unexpected outgoings of your own. Tell her that you might be needing to pay for large amounts of pole lube that you hadn't been expecting and that you are getting your old bedroom ceiling covered with mirrors.

Hey, I've always meant to ask. How on earth did you get off that parking ticket? :eek:

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Al R, I didn't get to speak, my barrister did all the talking while I gnawed on the edge of the judges desk.

The Parking Ticket, seeing as you ask. In retrospect, I realise that the parking ticket was on a previous court appearance when she tried to get me kicked out the house.

This court case overan, and I appealed against the £30.00 fine. They refused my appeal - court cases often overun. And now the fine was £60.00

Anyway, I wrote a rather good letter. Some of my fans may remember I fell off a ladder in Afghanistan about a year ago. I can't find the original letter for a cut & paste, but it had the following observations:-

1. Court cases may overun, I don't know what scallywags you're used to dealing with but in my late forties, this was my first time in a courtroom. I have a piece of paper stating that court time allocated was 30 minutes, and I paid for an hour and a half.

2. You will not have known this, but the court case was my wife's application to have me thrown out of the house that your most recent letter was sent to.

3. I was unable to retrieve my mail as I was recently medically evacuated from Afghanistan with lower limb injuries and residing at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham

4. I enclose a cheque for £30.00, please
a. Cancel your request for £60 and cash this cheque for £30
or
b. Rip this cheque up and thank me for attempting to defend the freedom of civilisation

5. And me dog died.


It worked, I reckon they've got it pinned to a wall in the office.

So I lost £120k and 35% of my pension, but getting off a £60 parking ticket came a long way to redressing the balance.

If anyone else would like advise on how not to get a divorce, but how to get off parking tickets, please PM me. I'm better at the latter.

[Cornish Jack]

This may, or may not have relevance, but pension split dealings with Armed Forces Pensions are pretty fraught. I paid my barrister £850 for his legal advice that the pension split would not take effect until the house had been sold (to avoid her staying in the house, claiming no sale offers, while benefitting from the pension split). Total%$&!"&* . House unsold for six months, AFPS started the split on the decree absolute date, DIDN'T inform me until seven months later, but continued paying me the pre-split rate. The first I knew about it was a demand for repaying overpayment of £7,000!! The subsequent correspondence with AFPS and Xaffinity was heated but ultimately left me with about 8% of my original pension for some years until the balance is paid off. Moral - do not expect efficiency from AFPS and DO NOT TRUST LAWYERS!!:mad::mad:

[danieloakworth]

Just gone through this and have to say it was reasonably straightforward. Pension people are very very slow and did end up being the one thing that held up the process. I'm different in that have left and pension is 'in pay'. Still had a few arguments about CETV (which I lost), but ended up with a reasonable settlement. The fact that your ex can't get the cash until 65 is a reasoanble bargaining tool, as they tend to need money now. I traded off extra equity against my pension.

[Legitum]

See the attached article on bringing forward the date for payouts from the armed forces pension scheme sharing orders Stephens Scown Solicitors - Family and Divorce Solicitors Exeter, St Austell, Truro, Devon, Cornwall, South West (http://tinyurl.com/lyv3gv)

[Been There...]

Thanks for that