Ideal flight

[Glamgirl]

Having spent some time reading on here and on feedback pages on the net from passengers, it seems to me that people want vastly different things when it comes to flying. Some people complain about the slightest thing, some people are easily impressed. I'm not saying what is right or wrong here, I'm just interested to know what people's expectations are when flying.

The reason for this thread is that I've seen some comments that puzzle me. Here are a few issues people have - written on feedback sites:

* No-one helped us with our hand luggage
* The food was disgusting
* The food was great
* The flight was delayed but we landed on time
* I had to pay to check in
* I had to pay for overweight baggage, it was only 10kg over my allowance
* The cabin was too hot/cold/smelly
* The water wasn't the right temperature
* The toilet was smelly/dirty/too brightly lit/too dark
* We wanted to sit together (family of 8) and they put us in different rows (as in 3/3/2)

This is only a few examples. I'm not moaning here, but what expectations do you have from a flight? I understand, of course, that you want the crew to smile and be nice and you want a clean seat and a prompt service. What I don't understand is when people have expectations of a 3 course meal from the Ritz on a short flight and they want the crew to put their hand luggage away for them. I also don't understand why people complain when there is turbulence and they have to stay seated.

Please do enlighten me, I really am interested to know. Do I just get on with what I normally do (smiling/being polite/doing the best I can) and accept that some people have strange requests/expectations, or what is the best way to understand this?

Gg

[One9iner]

On a recent flight, I was on the receiving end of some constant seat kicking by the child sitting behind me. After 15/20 minutes of constant kicking I turned around, and had a quiet word with the childs father; who could not have cared less. After politely asking him to "discourage the child from kicking my chair, repeatedly" the man replied "he's 8, what do you expect?" :ugh:

All I expect on a flight (other than safety!) is a polite crew, and fellow pax who have a sprinkling of manners.

[Final 3 Greens]

Hi Glamgirl

This is my list for the airport to airport portion of the journey.


To be treated with respect at every stage of the journey (this will be reciprocated)
To have as painless as possible a check-in/security experience
To leave on time
To get the service level for the class of travel booked, efficiently and professionally
To arrive on time
To get out of the arrival airport ASAP, with minimum hassle


That would do it for me.

[Rusland 17]

The reason for this thread is that I've seen some comments that puzzle me. Here are a few issues people have - written on feedback sites:

* I had to pay to check in
* The cabin was too hot/cold/smelly
* The toilet was smelly/dirty/too brightly lit/too dark

This is only a few examples. I'm not moaning here, but what expectations do you have from a flight?What is it about the above comments that puzzles you? Why, for example, should there be an additional fee for checking in? (This, after all, is an integral part of the process. What next - a boarding fee?) And do you think it is unreasonable for a customer to complain if the cabin or toilet is smelly and/or dirty?

[strake]

A good start would be similar to that I have experienced on Eurostar to Paris today. Nice facilities whilst waiting. Smooth, polite transition through security and passport control. Very pleasant host and hostess providing an escort down to the platform. A smiling on-board attendant (not requiring a boarding card check :E ) seamlessly greeting in French and English. Comfortable seats, nice food and wine and everyone appearing most contented.
Service on-time. Public transport at it's best.

[Final 3 Greens]

they want the crew to put their hand luggage away for them.

BTW, it is quite normal in some parts of the world for the crew to stow hand luggage for people who struggle with it or just to do it anyway as part of the service culture, so some who have experienced it may expect the same from you.

I found it quite embarrasing when a small asian female CC member insisted on loading my IATA case into the bin for me. Really dented the male ego ;)

[Glamgirl]

I'd like to add that not all the points on my list puzzles me, however the one about having to pay to check in does, as it must be stated on the website the passenger bought the ticket from. That doesn't mean I agree that one should have to pay to check in, I think it's appalling.

Passengers wanting clean and tidy facilities isn't puzzling at all, I'm all for cleanliness. What I was trying to explain (badly, I admit) was that people are so different, that one opinion isn't an option. Also, most people don't tend to realise that as food handlers, the crew shouldn't really be cleaning toilets. Also, it would be easier for us all (whether crew or passengers) if people didn't insist on messing up the toilets as soon as possible.

In regards to stowing luggage, I have no problem with stowing a child's or frail person's light bag into the locker. However, we're trained to not lift any heavy bags, as we can damage our backs etc. It's not that we don't want to help, but if you, as a fairly fit and healthy adult can't lift your bag, then I'm afraid that I won't be able to either. If some crew do insist on stowing your bag, that's up to them, but I'm not personally willing to aggravate an old back injury. I'm sorry about that, and it truly isn't because I'm not willing to help.

Gg

[FN-GM]

Checkin Fee is just crazy in my opinion

I would like it if the airline had more discretion when it come to excess fees.

Legroom on cheaper airlines in an issue with me. I traveled to Egypt the other week and for the 6 hour flight i had to sit at a funny angle.

Something that really gets on my wick is as soon as the plane touches down everyone gets up and if your sitting in an isle seat it is not comfortable. When the plane is traveling to the gate everyone is getting things from the bins. I would prefer if pax where forced to remain seated until the AC doors have opened.
1. for comfort.
2. safety, should something go wrong on the ground people can get out without falling over luggage.

Thanks my bit :)

[Final 3 Greens]

I'm sorry about that, and it truly isn't because I'm not willing to help.

That's the difference between service culture in northern Europe and some other parts of the world.

i.e. you would not be in your job anymore in some places.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not attacking you Glamgirl, just pointing out that cultural norms are different and so are working practices.

When I go to the far east, I can never make my mind up whether to be amazed at what people will accept to get a job/promotion or to be terrified.

If you get people from the east or who have become acustomed to living out there, this might explain their expectations.

[WMUOSF]

Hi Glamgirl
My wife and I lived in PNG for 6 years and travell extensively for business and pleasure. We travelled to the US regularly to visit friends and even though we are Aussies, my favourite carrier was United.
Because of the flight distance, Trans Pacific and then across America to Jacksonville I insisted on Business Class.
We used to reserve seats upstairs on an emergency exit to have a good flight. One trip on check in in Brisbane our preassigned seats had been cancelled. Complaining got nowhere, see them in Syd.
Syd were no help, couldn't do anything, so the holiday was not starting well. the seats we were given were the last two in Business cabin next to the galley.
I was not in a good frame of mind boarding, and thenwe were asked by the senior attendant in the cabin if we were the ones that had been messed up. I calmly said yes expecting another lame apology. Instead he said what do you want to drink, he was going to look after us to LA, sit down, if we want another drink, something to eat or magazine, just bang on the side of the galley. In less than five minutes he had relaxed us and made us feel important. The whole flight continued this way, the service was excellent and reinforced our preference for UA.
I have travelled around the world many times, lots of good and bad flights, but this one is memorable because someone cared.
I don't normaly complain because it doesn't work, just choose another airline.
The Cabin Crew make all the difference.:D:D:D

[James 1077]

My ideal flight would be:

For the fare shown when I start searching for the flights to be the fare that I pay (I don't care how it is made up - all I want to know is how much it is going to cost me).

Swift and friendly check in process with welcoming smiles and where the seat I have pre-selected hasn't been allocated to someone else.

Quick transit through security with all lanes open if there is a queue.

Somewhere to sit in the lounge before heading for the gate (and not being told to be there hours before the flight unnecessarily).

A boarding process whereby families, disabled and premium passengers are called first then, only when they and the plane's aisles are clear, the plane boards row-by-row.

Friendly welcome by CC as you board the flight.

Assistance by CC as required as you get to your seat (ie offer to help with carry on bags - I won't accept it but it is nice to be asked).

A comfortable and clean seat with pillow, blanket and amenity kit (even if only an eye mask, ear plugs and some socks). And with nobody overflowing into my seat.

Friendly and efficient CC offering a free drink and nuts after take-off and available on the call button throughout the flight as required.

Food that is both edible and identifiable.

CC that clear trays swiftly (why do you wait until after coffee has been served? Surely it would be better to clear the trays and then serve coffee to people who want it).

Few announcements throughout the remainder of the flight.

Disembarkation to be swift and painless with thank yous to and from the CC on the way out.

Passport control queues to be swift with all lanes available.

Bags to arrive within 20 minutes of disembarking.

[Rush2112]

My ideal flight would be:

For the fare shown when I start searching for the flights to be the fare that I pay (I don't care how it is made up - all I want to know is how much it is going to cost me).

Swift and friendly check in process with welcoming smiles and where the seat I have pre-selected hasn't been allocated to someone else.

Quick transit through security with all lanes open if there is a queue.

Somewhere to sit in the lounge before heading for the gate (and not being told to be there hours before the flight unnecessarily).

A boarding process whereby families, disabled and premium passengers are called first then, only when they and the plane's aisles are clear, the plane boards row-by-row.

Friendly welcome by CC as you board the flight.

Assistance by CC as required as you get to your seat (ie offer to help with carry on bags - I won't accept it but it is nice to be asked).

A comfortable and clean seat with pillow, blanket and amenity kit (even if only an eye mask, ear plugs and some socks). And with nobody overflowing into my seat.

Friendly and efficient CC offering a free drink and nuts after take-off and available on the call button throughout the flight as required.

Food that is both edible and identifiable.

CC that clear trays swiftly (why do you wait until after coffee has been served? Surely it would be better to clear the trays and then serve coffee to people who want it).

Few announcements throughout the remainder of the flight.

Disembarkation to be swift and painless with thank yous to and from the CC on the way out.

Passport control queues to be swift with all lanes available.

Bags to arrive within 20 minutes of disembarking.

Basically SQ then(!)

[Rollingthunder]

After politely asking him to "discourage the child from kicking my chair, repeatedly" the man replied "he's 8, what do you expect?"

I was 6 when I made my first flight (trans-atlantic), my brother was 3.

When we landed an elderly gentleman sitting nearby complimented my mother on her well behaved children.

Times change.

[James 1077]

Basically SQ then(!)


That is who my next flight (and pretty much any subsequent long haul flight) is with. But it would be nice if they had some competition from elsewhere! :ok:

[Rush2112]

That is who my next flight (and pretty much any subsequent long haul flight) is with. But it would be nice if they had some competition from elsewhere! :ok:

Same here, always my first choice. CX are not bad though either, just don't like the airport!

[radeng]

BA First Class. The nearest to perfection in air travel that I've found.

Although the way Willy is downgrading everything on BA, it won't last. He doesn't seem to realise that those of us prepared to pay a bit more for comfort etc expect to get it, and reducing that which we get for occasionally a marginally cheaper fare isn't what's wanted.

He also hasn't learned from US airline situation that if you p*ss off (and there's no real substitute for that phrase) the staff up the sharp end dealing with customers by redundancies, forced layoffs, pay reductions, pension reductions etc, their attitude gets poor. They don't care so much - very understandably - and the customer notices. And go elsewhere.....

[Ancient Observer]

GG
If you imagine your bit of the plane as one of the most hi-tech "sitting rooms" on the planet................Please start your imagination, now.

You know an awful lot about your hi-tech sitting room - we poor pax know very little about it. (Other than F3G, of course)................

If it was my hi-tech sitting room I would control extremely carefully who came in to it.

Airlines don't do that - they invite in anyone who will pay!!

So expectations, and knowledge, are very strangely distributed. For some basic things, we know nothing - and you might think us thick for knowing nothing about "your" sitting room. We're not necessarily thick - just short on knowledge.

Our expectations are also all over the place. Some expect everything, some expect nothing, and lots are just in between.

The expectations might be "ours", but they might have been given to us. I used to have a gold card with BA and SQ's equivalent. At about the time of PPF, SQ could be called amateur - but with a brilliant desire to offer great service. BA were professional - but with little or no desire to offer service. At least PPF1 and PPF2 improved that latter point!

Hope this helps with your question!
all the best
AO
PS - how's the new union coming along??

[VideoAnimal]

Having flown many different airlines over the years, Some good some bad and some I will never fly again if I can help it. I think Cabin Crew make a big difference and for me personally BA, Virgin, Continental and Delta have always been the best. The worst cabin service I have come across has been Air France and Emirates. Tried a few LoCo carriers like Easyjet, Airtran and Southwest and was actually suprised how good they were. With all the different airlines I have flown on over the years there has been one or two hiccups but most airlines have dealt with the problem and or apologised and I will still fly with them, all except for Emirates but if they want to lose my custom including a lot of airfreight well thats for them to sort out. For me I do like flying BA in any class as I know they will get me from A to B on time for a good price for the service I expect.

[rgbrock1]

My ideal flight? (F3G is going to love this one.)

If I'm a short haul flying in, say, a 737 it would be much appreciated if I was not seated next to a fattie who intrudes on my space in a BIG way. (pun intended.) :eek::eek:

[Final 3 Greens]

RG

That's easy, I've given you the answer........

Buy the middle seat, you know it makes sense. :}

[Rush2112]

BTW, it is quite normal in some parts of the world for the crew to stow hand luggage for people who struggle with it or just to do it anyway as part of the service culture, so some who have experienced it may expect the same from you.

I found it quite embarrasing when a small asian female CC member insisted on loading my IATA case into the bin for me. Really dented the male ego ;)

I'm with you on this F3G: unless I was injured in some way and unable to lift my bag, I wouldn't let a small Asian female CC do it for me. I find it amazing that fit and healthy people can't / won't do it themselves, but it is the cultural norm here.

All other aspects and anything else they want to do for me is absolutely fine though! More fizz, yes please!

[lowcostdolly]

Hi Gg......I'm loving this thread!!

Lots of really good replies as well re pax expectations.......I too would love a business class experience each time I fly. I would also want it for a loco price!

Just wanted to list a few of my expectations. There is some "aircrew humour" in here as am looking at things with both SLF and work hat on. Sensitive souls please take this on board:

Pre flight everyone would have a stress free journey both to and through the airport. Preferably ensured by carrier for no or little extra charge. That way all pax boarding would be shiny happy peeps ready to enjoy their flight.
Not only does the plane, crew, catering and bags turn up on time but so does all the SLF. Nothing more frustrating than sitting on a fully boarded flight whilst crew either try to find the last 2 remaining pax or their bags.
That families who are given the privelidge of pre boarding actually do so in order to sit together. Really annoying to fellow pax and crew if you have been in McDonalds until the last minute and then expect this to be accomodated when you are last to board on a free seating cabin :(
All pax in front of me have boarding passes at the ready and don't waste the CC's time complaining about the procedure :)
All airlines carried extra seats which are put together in an instant so that nobody complains/gets offloaded re having to sit next to Mr and Mrs Tubby. Maybe an expanding fuselage as well for extra space?:}
Those cute babies came with volume control on landing ;)
That the parent's of 8 year old seat kicker (one9iner's post) actually act as parents and take some responsibility for his behaviour :oh:.
That the CC are consistently polite and smiling to the pax at all times.....even if they have been to Belfast 6 times that day!!
That the toilets, boilers and oven never broke down in flight :{
The "hot option" was loaded by the caterers in adequate quantities for a 6 sector day so a hungry pax on sector 6 could actually buy this. It would also be nice if it beared a passing resemblence to the magazine illustration......
As for the loo's they can smell at any time......Please aim straight and don't add to the problem :ok:
That the luggage allowance didn't appear to be subject to seemingly expanding gate crates which allow some pax at certain airports to bring on their home contents/furniture and then expect the CC to stow it above what could be my head :eek:. How many of us frequent flyers have not seen an overhead locker open on take off/landing?An Ideal flight......wouldn't that be great. In the meantime I'm ducking for cover.....

[Mr Optimistic]

its hard enough finding it in a UK restaurant. Ask what sandwich they would like at check in then hand out the brown bags at boarding - job done and you can scrap the galleys and those lethal carts. Oh, and stop trying to flog that duty free crap in flight !

[Hunter58]

What I really want when I fly is consistency of the product. Lufthansa is very good at this, usually. Iberia is very good at this as well, but the level certainly could be ameliorated.

I hate Air France exactly for this. One flight is great, the next one a nightmare. And, well, CDG is consitent!

Avianca amazes me every time I take them. When I started out on them they were, well, nothing very mentionable. Nowadays, there are some things larger, self declares service carriers could learn from...!

[Seat 59A]

Completely agree with last comment ... consistency would be wonderful.

I think the original question was aimed at in-flight service, so I won't bang on about check-in and screening procedures (let's face it, life is too short for that). What I appreciate in flight is basically the following:

1. consistent service that reflects the class of cabin (I truly don't expect a J-class service if I fly economy, but I definitely don't expect economy service if I am up the front)
2. a courteous and friendly welcome by CC at the door (and to be escorted to seat if in First). Prompt collection of coat and distribution of welcome drink, newspaper, amenities etc. if in First or J.
3. a seat that functions and is not dirty, broken, collapsed, tray table knackered, audio not working etc. etc.
4. not to be bothered by perpetual nannying announcements/offers to purchase duty free/join frequent flyer clubs etc.
5. CC that is not arrogant, bullying or grumpy, i.e. with a service attitude. Ok, everyone has bad days, but you are paid not to take it out on the pax. Conversely, we should just have the manners and breeding not to take it out on you.
6. An edible selection of food (I am assuming a reasonably long flight here) that is served efficiently and courteously. A plastic tray hurled at me in economy is not pleasant, whatever the contents. Alternately, on a recent Korean Air long-haul, an economy meal was served with all the grace and courtesy of a first-class meal on United. I could taste the difference!
7. If up front, a reasonable wine list served efficiently and knowledgeably - by CC who have had at least one module of training on wine. Refills served just at the right time.
8. An entertainment system that functions and offers a reasonable selection. Sorry, but if it ain't on demand throughout all cabins, then your airline is woefully out of date.
9. A CC where at least one person is available throughout the flight, as opposed to one where they ALL go off and hide behind the curtains as soon as the light goes out and appear very disgruntled if disturbed (or the AlItalia crew a few years ago who stood around in the galley smoking (yes, you did read that correctly)).

I think that's about it. I don't think it is too much to ask. In fact, I have to say this is exactly the service I got on two flight last month (VS LHR-SFO Upper, and BA LGW-KIN J). Thoroughly professional, cheerful, efficient and pleasant crew who knew exactly how to behave to make a very frequent traveller contented. The worrying thing, as pointed out before, is that (especially with BA and AA) the consistency is lacking - one flight great, the next flight awful.

Final thought: I think we all understand that the glory days of the 80s are over in terms of business travel. Corners are being cut, frills are trimmed. I can't yet say that the business class of today is the economy class of the 1980s, but it is getting that way. On the other hand, there are vast improvements in terms of e.g. in flight entertainment, flat beds etc., that make life better. The whole exercise of air travel is vile and vicious, and this affects everyone, SLF and CC alike. I fully agree that SLF should treat CC with respect and courtesy, rude and arrogant pax (which I am not) are thoroughly obnoxious. On the other hand, CC, whilst there are many things you can't do anything about, such as your airlines' policy on meals, wine choices, etc. etc., a pleasant demeanour and cheerful disposition, and doing the best you can with the tools at your disposal, can make all the difference between a pax coming back for more and choosing a different carrier next time.

Hope this makes sense!

[LPFR]

what expectations do you have from a flight?

-Departing on time as scheduled
-Arriving on time and safely

I don't ask too much, do I? :)

As I travel only with hand-luggage, no need to go to the check-in counter. I use small airports, no chance of huge security lines. I take my own food, no chance to be poisoned by plastic aircraft food. I don't use aircraft toilets, as I don't need that for 1 or 2 hours, so I don't have to risk a dirty/smelly one to make me noseous or anything.

For me this is the best and the most stress-free way to fly :)
And luckily all my 2 expectations have been reached everytime I took a flight so far, so no complains whatsoever :ok:

[Abusing_the_sky]

LPFR,

You have won my very own "BEST PAX" award! :D
I would love you to be in my fights. Mind you, you probably have been in one of my flights. I tend to get 99.9% amazing pax, with common sense and manners.
Shame there's always that 0.01% that could ruin the day... :(

I agree with everything people on here want from a flight; except:
And do you think it is unreasonable for a customer to complain if the cabin or toilet is smelly and/or dirty?

Yes it is very unreasonable. We try, we really do try to keep the toilets tidy, but you have to bare in mind it's not the crew who does all that mess and is responsable for the "smell". It's fellow pax, so you might want to take it up with them. Failing that, you could always write to all airlines and ask them to recruit, train and employ "cabin/toilet crew cleaners" for the flight. It'll be like having an extra crew member, like having a sky chef, or a sky nanny on board... (not comparing these jobs to a cleaner's job, just an example or idea to the job title)

Your statement above is one of the reasons why i'd REALLY love to have a badge on my jacket collar that says:
"Flight Attendant (Cabin Crew on the other side of the pond). Here to save your a$$, not kiss it"

:ok:

[liteswap]

The issue here, sadly, is that as pax we've already undergone a myriad of unpleasant experiences just to get on the aircraft.

Then most of us will endure rather than enjoy a flight, especially long-haul in steerage, so the veneer of civilised behaviour we all wear in public - well, some of us, anyway - is already worn pretty thin by the time we're at cruise. It doesn't take much by that point for more primitive instincts to break through.

That's not to condone bad behaviour but, I believe, to explain it.

[LPFR]

You have won my very own "BEST PAX" award!

LOL! Thank You! :}

What airline do you work for?

Oh yes, talking about respect and manners, I think that's important for a nice and relaxed journey. What's the point of getting stressed or angry and being disrespectful at 33,000ft? It just ruins your flight and 150 people's more.

Never experienced anything like that but I know some stories of some flights that were not very pleasant to be because of lack of manners on board.

[ConstantFlyer]

GG - great thread!

I'm afraid most of my less-than-ideal flights have been thus made so by the actions of other SLF. Rudeness, ignorance, and lack of consideration for others rate highly, as well as selfishness and cavalier disregard for rules, social norms and common courtesy. This goes for pax on any airline and in any class of travel in my experience.

On that basis, perhaps my ideal flight would be on a bizjet - on my own!

[Final 3 Greens]

I took five flights last week:

1 x Air Malta
2 x Lufthansa
2 x Egyptair

Check in was online, with hand luggage, security was painless.

All left within 30 minutes of the scheduled departure time and all arrived within 20 mins or less.

The service was delivered pleasantly and professionally on all segments.

No outstanding efforts, no poor efforts.

These flights were as close to ideal as it gets.