Living & Working in Saudi Arabia - Advice please

[Norman Goering]

Due to a dramatic and unforeseen change of circumstances, I am shortly due to start flying with a company that will mean being based in Saudi Arabia.

Having never been to the Middle East before, nor am I able to visit Saudi prior to starting, I'd appreciate any advice about the practicalities of living and working there.

e.g. accomodation standards and security outside of expat "compounds"; grocery shopping - easy or tough for western tastes; cost?; any particular social faux pas to be careful of? Any specific places to avoid or operational peculiarities?

I have read up as much as possible but books etc. can only tell you so much.

Any sensible advice appreciated.

[AndreSH]

Hi Norman,

I worked for a Saudi airline for 9 months.
First about places to rent, citys like Jeddah you have a waiting list and normaly they request one year payment in advance.

I was based in Damam, so I chose to live in Bahrain, the best option if you are going to be based in the Saudi east cost.

About restaurants it's great, really nice places to eat and if you like you can get all the american junk food chains in KSA. Groceries and shoppings almost the same as in Europe or USA except for alcoholic beveranges.
Single men are not allowed to be in the same place with women, so all the restaurant have the sinlge and families section, but they are not expensive, for a $130 Saudi Ryal you can have a lunch in a 5 stars hotel restaurant.

Operational enviroment
I suggest at the first ATC contact to greet then at the Islam way and they are very strict with prasheology standards but really easy to work there.
WX it's not a problem, CAVOK almost all the time, majors airports with at least 2 runways with 4 kms and ILS.
Just the customs demand some patience.

Good luck with GACA!

[Left Coaster]

Hi..it would be helpful if you were able to say which city...PM me and I may be able to help.

[no sig]

Norman G, if you haven't already- read up on the FCO website re do's and don't and when you get there take local advice, register with your embassy. Accomodation standards vary, as do living standards in the foreigner 'compounds'. It will be worth your while finding out just what plans your new employer has for your accomodation-my guess is that you'll be living in one. Once you know that you can ask around about it- some are excellent, some not so excellent. I found living there easy enough and at no time felt uncomfortable going out anywhere in the city- but as with anywhere- there are places you wouldn't go at night- or in the day for that matter. Food is good and no problem whatsoever, in many of the shopping malls and supermarkets you could be anywhere in the world, Europe, USA you name it- whatever you're after food wise you can get- save pork and drink! Cost of living in Saudia is low by European standards.

You do need to watch your dress sense outside of the compounds, I've known others who have been harassed by locals for wearing shorts, armless tee-shirts and too much gold jewelery. Learn a bit about Saudia's version of Islam, that help's one's understanding of where you are- it really is important.

Operationally, do a refesher on climatology and ME -Saudi weather, I was surprised just how vicious it can get with strong winds, low vis, fog, sandstorms, runway contamination and airfield closures as a result, and of course hot-high perf. considerations.

I am sure there are a slew of Saudi ex-pat websites are good for advice.

Best of luck with the move.

[Norman Goering]

Thanks for taking the time to give me some good, decent and sensible advice. To be honest I was a tad anxious about the experience but you have all helped to put my mind (and my wife's!) more at ease. The separation will be hard for us and our children but we'll make the most of it.

Cheers guys.

NG

[Semaphore Sam]

Wife cannot drive, but taxies are cheap and very available. Women should shop with male relative, OR with female friends, wearing conservative clothes, if not an abayia. Just use common sense; the people are generally very friendly and most speak English to a reasonably high standard.

[NZ X man]

Common sense prevails. I was there again in May, and was surprised to see Saudi guys wearing what you would call shorts in Riyadh. Drivers are famous, lots of great shopping, as someone else stated, your wife cannot drive, but most of the compounds have shuttles to and from some of the main shopping areas. Some of the markets rival anything anywhere, except when you get stuck inside during a prayer session, and you have to wait for the checkout guys to return. It will be cooling down now, which will also be a relief. You get to know some folks in the compounds, and there is always someone who knows someone who has his own home brew , usually for sale.

Go for it, you will be the wiser for the experience.

[Left Coaster]

Just to be clear...women MUST not should wear the abiya outside of the compound...wife and kids have to be on your IQAMA (ID) and cannot be with another man unless a married relative (husband) Be conservative in your behaviour inside and outside of the compound and you'll be fine...

[a4mrav8r]

Norman, To be sure, it is a real eye opener for anyone coming here for the first time. All replies here are very accurate. For the most part, if you just keep your politics and religious beliefs to yourself (as you would in any other part of the world), you won't have any problems. One thing you will find is there are some companies and individuals who look upon a contract as something that is amendable - so don't be surprised if you find yourself up against that. Clarification before starting is a must.
There is a 'face' issue here if they are challenged, much like the Asian culture so if you have an issue, you'll need to be diplomatic in your approach to the remedy.
Depending on where you are in the kingdom, you will find some areas a little more relaxed about dress than others. In general, Jeddah is a lot more relaxed and men wearing shorts is not looked upon with any disfavor as long as it is just in the streets and markets.
It's not as bad as some would think and worse for others. Just what you make of it. The scariest part is the drivers. Buckle up.
Best wishes to you and enjoy the 'cooler time of year' that is arriving.

[mutt]

Norman, Saudi Arabia is a huge country that is as culturally diverse as Europe, so you really have to say which city you will be based in, otherwise you wont get accurate information!

Mutt

[Pilocol]

Hey Norman ...
PM me if you are coming in to Riyadh ... been her for 8 already ... no problems .. got to get use to some things that's all.
Happy to help a fellow aviatior ...
Keep it safe .. :ok:

[desertopsguy]

As previous posters have mentioned, it really does depend on the city you live in. WIth regard to the 3 main population centres, JED and DMM not as conservative as RUH. All of them are considerably more conservative than Emirates, Bahrain, Oman etc but that said; life is not impossible and they are culturally diverse as Mutt has pointed out; with different traditions and religious leanings.

RUH would be the most conservative and living there takes a bit of getting used to. Everything shuts down for prayer time which makes outings a bit of a pain especially if you are shopping or about to run out of gas,you can't get upset, just be patient and wait the 30-40mins for them to come back from the mosque.

Living in a compound is expensive and getting more expensive all the time. RUH compounds are good mostly, I don;t know about JED but DMM compounds for the most part are crappy and old in comparison to RUH. If you're lucky accommodation in a decent place is in your contract.

Cost of living overall is cheap. I fill my 60litre tank for about 5 euros, cars are cheap, food is cheap, eating out varies quite a bit in price. US chain junkfood outlets are half the price compared to Europe. Alot of good ethnic restaurants around and Arabic food is really very nice although some of it you might find excessively salty, at least I did.

The people generally keep to themselves, it would be rare to be invited into the family home .Most will speak reasonable english particularly the younger ones. RUH has a high concentration of bedouins who traded in their camels for old junk American cars and these people can be a bit rough around the edges. The driving is insane, that's the only way to describe it. Take a car and driver for first few weeks before attempting to drive yourself, if you do venture out, get yourself a GPS, it will be your best friend as many sign posts are not in English.

JED and DMM are more chilled out than RUH, the religious police are less prevalent here than in RUH also. DMM is where the majority of Shia people are concentrated so they don;t follow the austere version of Wahabi islam you get in RUH and elsewhere. JED has always been a centre for trade and an entry point for Mecca bound pilgrims so all the foreign influence has mellowed them out a bit. Petty crime is more prevalent in JED so I;ve heard, Somali and Nigerian scammers can be found here too.

Saudis are religous and supersticious too. Never talk about religion and never say anything contrary to their religious sensitivities. If asked your opinion on Islam by a Saudi or any other Muslim person then be polite and keep any negative opinions to yourself. Free thinking open discussion that questions their faith is a huge NO NO. If offered a Koran, then accept it and leave it at that.

If you are based in DMM then trips (sanity breaks) to BAH are easy. They have restaurants and bars like you would find in your own country and there are cinemas too (No cinemas in Saudi). If based in RUH you can drive there in about 4hrs although the border checkpoint can be choked at weekends and what should take 15mins can sometimes take hours to get through.

JED has good diving in the red sea.

The climate takes some getting used to, RUH is dry all year round and insanely hot in summer. The dry heat and dust can play havoc with your sinuses or dry skin if you suffer from either. JED is more humid but cooler, DMM is rather unpleasant as it has temps similar to RUH coupled with higher humidity.

As mentioned by Nosig, go easy on the bling, it's considered feminine. I have been stopped entering malls when wearing bermuda shorts but that is usually because the neanderthal guarding the entrance perhaps doesnt like the look of you. Most situations like that can be sorted by polite discourse. Same goes for the mad driving, don;t let it get to you, if someone gestures to you, dont gesture back, just wave apologetically, it can prevent an episode of tailgaiting or other such behaviour...

If in RUH then the embassies have parties from time to time, try to get in with someone in the know, it will take time but these things are a life saver at the weekends. They have real booze and after one or 2 you will completely forget that you are in one of the most austere and conservative countries in the world.

If you go then do so with an open mind. Maybe learn some of the lingo and any effort on your behalf to converse in Arabic will be appreciated but usually with some amusement. The people can really test your patience and your nerves but it's an experience.

Security, there over 2 and half years myself and no problems, sorry but I have to say...except for the driving, it really is shocking:}

Geographically it's centrally located in the Gulf and M.East in general so lots of opportunities to get out there and explore, time permitting.

All of the advice on here so far seems to have been given by current or former residents and is spot on.

Enjoy it :p !

[Norman Goering]

That's great guys, even more good gen.:ok:

Just to clarify, I will be based at DMM and "Unaccompanied" so sadly wife and children will remain behind in UK. My accomodation is included in the contract and is NOT in a compound, although as yet I am not sure exactly whereabouts it will be. Transport to and from the airport is included also (thankfully - judging by the unanimous opinions of the driving to be witnessed!). I have an oppo going out ahead of me next week so I'll know a bit more then.

What about getting paid? I presume I'll need a Saudi account as I'll be paid in US$. How easy/expensive is it to transfer funds back to a UK GB£ account? The websites I've checked are a tad unclear on this and to be honest are a little on the scaremongering side!

I was planning on bringing my laptop with a scutch of DVD's and CD's/MP3's etc. along with a PSP to help pass the down time. Are such things permissable and can additional supplies of DVD's & CD's be obtained legitimately in the kingdom?

Being the good clean living soul that I am, I don't drink so that won't be an issue but I do enjoy fishing, photography and sight-seeing. I know that certain electronics etc. can be purchased cheaply in the ME but what about KSA? Apart from official buildings, any photography restrictions? How easy is it to "pop down" to Salalah from DMM? (It's a place I have always wanted to visit). Any other non-party related social activities you could recommend?

Apologies for all the questions. I've done my best to find the answers already but have not succeeded. I probably sound a tad paranoid (:O), but as I have so little to go on, I want to be as informed as I can be so that I can make it as positive an experience as possible.

Many thanks, NG

[MarcelDXB]

Norman,

Lived in DMM for 4 years. It is possibly one of KSA's most relaxed environments. You are also only a bridge away from Bahrain, were Beer and Wine flow free!

In terms of DVD's on laptops, I would be carefull. If they contain pornographic material, you will be in trouble. They will check the contents of your disks, DVD's etc. upon entering the country.

All in all, Saudi is actually not a bad place to live. The food is good. There are plenty of European and American fastfood chains, and the people are very nice. I would even say nicer than in Dubai. IF you do get a chance to live in Bahrain and get you appartment or villa there, live suddenly becomes very good. Your employer should not have a real issue with that. Price difference is minimal.

Good luck!

Marcel

[desertopsguy]

So, you're gonna live in DMM, that's good at least. You are close to BAH and some good connections back to UK. Your family would also be able to come visit you there.
Dammam itself is dingy and grotty but Al Khobar, adjacent to it, is really very nice and looks like a completely different town. Strange you don't have compound accomm included. Living outside can be a bother and neighbourhoods are segragated into family areas and bachelor areas.

Take care with the camera, don't photograph gov buildings or military installations. Some of the architecture really is quite nice but you might want to check with building security before getting snap happy. Never take fotos of people especially Arab women under any circumstances.

The gen regarding dvds etc seems to vary, lots of people here say you should expect to have your stuff checked by customs but I never have and don;t know anyone who has had to go through it either. The worst that has ever happened to me was my bottle of aftershave was opened and the guy took a sniff to make sure it wasnt brandy or whatever else. All luggage is X-rayed on the way into the country, they will most probably spot anything that looks like a bottle of booze.

As for electronics, I didn't really notice any difference in price for small stuff like mp3 players and only marginal differences with cameras. TV's, home cinema etc are cheaper, especially the high end stuff. Watch out for 110v though, for some reason (probably US influence) they have both and they can give you either, if you want 220v you gotta make sure and ask for it before you walk off with the box.
Shopping in general though is as expensive (groceries excepted) if not more so than at home and many of the familiar high street stores from uk can be found here with the price tags in euro / gbp still attached, a quick calculation usually reveals that the saudi riyal price is the same which is a bit of a rip off considering the high rates of vat in EU.

Getting to SLL from DMM...there are direct flights witih Saudia and Oman air from RUH and these are not daily, not sure about DMM but there must surely be a service from BAH. Perhaps go to MCT first and then on to SLL by road. I don't think you could just 'pop' down there. It is also more of a summer destination, not so much in winter.

Bank accounts require a Saudi residency, aka Iqama. Once you have it you can have an account and drivers licence. Without it you will have to provide your home country bank account. You can rent a car with your uk licence even without iqama but you can't drive it to BAH or anywhere outside KSA without permission. If you want to avoid johnny tax man in uk then consider opening a non-resident account at HSBC in BAH and get your salary paid there, not sure if they can do it in Saudi, HSBC in Saudi are known as SABB so maybe check them out.

I dont know about extra curricular activities in DMM really as I do all mine in BAH but if you get familiar with the place then for sure you will find plenty to do.

As we enter the cooler months, it really is a good time to get your bearings and explore.
Feel free to post more Q's as they occur to you.

All the best,

D.O.G

[Firestorm]

Norman G: can you give an update about how it's going in Saudi? I have just been offered a job with Fly Sama, and have a similar list of questions to those you asked initially.

[stylo4444]

I lived in Al Khobar for 15 years before moving to the U.S. Dammam is more of a sprawling city as compared to Al Khobar and Dammam, it has it's good parts and bad looking parts. You have your usual American restaurant chains and local chains that rival them, so eating food there is not an issue...you can pretty much find anything.

Shopping, if you are talking about groceries then it's really not an issue. Small grocery/convenience stores on every other street and large ones scattered all over the city so you won't have a problem with that. A few shopping malls, but I've always considered shopping malls in the Dammam and Al Khobar area to be not that great. When Al-Rashid Mall opened in Dhahran, it was really the place to be but I don't consider that to be the case any longer.

Just be aware of the laws and follow them, you won't have an issue. Bahrain is nearby, so feel free to jump on the causeway and check it out. If you have the opportunity to reside in Bahrain, I would jump on it as it's easier for Westerners overall in terms of laxed rules and lifestyle.

Enjoy and good luck.