COPA Rumour

[AeroDiaz]

I´ve just heard from "a guy who knows a guy" in COPA that the spaniards are not doing so well ... wich means that some of them are going to "leave" the company soon.



Anyone´s got some info on this?





DÍAZ

[mustang06]

I’ve got the same rumour from a guy who also knows a guy.
You can buy a Type Rating but you can’t buy experience and good CRM.

Mustang.

[dieana]

Yes, I have heard the same thing abuout spanish guys. Some of them are Iberia Captain´s son and they believe they are in Spain and there will be no problem with their behavior, but they are in America (NO DADY´s LAND).
Time will tell us if there is a punishment to these guys.

[emirmorocan]

They are like that everywhere. Impossible for them to live far from Spain.

[atila_101]

Dear Enirmorocan......

At the beginning I thought as you, that for spaniards is hard to stay away from home and from mum and dad, but then I met some of them working abroad and had to change my mind, so if these guys in COPA are not doing well I don't think thats because they cannot enjoy a "sangría" or a "paella"...

cheers....

[Schickfuss]

I work for an airline in central america ,I am trying hard to get in to Copa ,the Training Manager is a friend of mine ,he wrote me that 59 pilots from the embraer are going to be upgraded to the 737NG ,and the españolitos are finishing their duty ,the payed in american flyers for the atp hours in Copa ,after they logged 1500 hours they are leaving the to spain,the deal was they flew for free ,only perdiem until they got their hours ,that is really bad because I have many panamenian pilots who are on the row to Copa and they are waiting until this scum leaves the country ,they performed really bad I also have 3 friends of mine that are flight introctors there ,they wrote to me that they are flying 737 NG SP ,single pilot !!! because this papi boys only think in la fiesta ,meanwhile there is pleople who really neeeds the job or legally has more rights to be there ...try you to get a job in Spain ...even paying ...but here in Central america as you see is real ...BAD FOR COPA and it image as a company ...but changes are coming SOON !!! Freiherr von Schickfuss

[AeroDiaz]

Schickfuss, Willkommen an Bord!!!

Thanks for posting all that information.

I was also part of the Grupo TACA (La Costeña), until november ´08. I´d like to fly for COPA but I need to build up my Multi-PIC time.

Now, about the "fiesteros":

1-If the first group of spaniards started flying last year ( around june?) then I think they´ve logged around 800-900 hrs up to this point. Am I right?.

2-What do your friends say about a second group of pilots coming from American Flyers next year?. Is COPA going to say: OLEEE!!! ???


Bis später!!

Díaz


P.S.Good luck on your job interview in Qatar. Be advised, they´ll be asking you questions about the JAR´s. A friend of mine was ready only for the FAR´s and failed. (former TACA´s A320 f/o)

[Heading090]

I agree........ please we don't need kids paying for flying....... Instead,we need to get paid for flying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:=

[Immigrant]

2Schickfuss

I work for an airline in central america ,I am trying hard to get in to Copa

I hope you will NEVER be here. :=
We have enough sh&$@t here :mad:

[AeroDiaz]

Relax immigrant, relax!!!.

The most qualified pilot will be getting the job... or the one with US$41,500.00 in his pockets (if we talk about COPA). But guess what? NOT ANYMORE!!! according to the information we are reading here, now everybody will have a chance.

Immigrant, you are also looking for a job in different countries man!!!. Does the word KARMA mean something to you?... Gosh!!!, give us a break!.

There´s nothing to worry about if you are a good and professional pilot... are you?.

Chill!!!


DÍAZ

[Immigrant]

AeroDiaz

Aires, Colombia
I don't know how the two spaniards got the job down there.

AeroDiaz
I´ve just heard from "a guy who knows a guy" in COPA that the spaniards are not doing so well ... wich means that some of them are going to "leave" the company soon.

AeroDiaz
try you to get a job in Spain

Something personal against Spain people?????? .... ancient history :confused:

Just curiosity :*

[chock2chock]

naaahhh. Im pretty sure theyre just hatin':rolleyes:

[AeroDiaz]

It seems like I hurt someone´s feelings eh?.

Don´t hate me Immigrant!!!, I´m only telling the truth. Not like you, manipulating my posts and trying to put words in my mouth (the third quote on your post is not even mine!) The other two quotes are not reflecting any xenophobic and/or insulting attitude, like yours. And you know, I have very good friends from Spain, pilots who are members of PPpruNe. So your attempt to make me look like YOU has failed.

Be a gentleman and apologize to Schickfuss.

Immigrant, please don´t reply to this post.

And good luck on your job hunt, you´re gonna need it.

[Immigrant]

AeroDiaz
I´ve just heard from "a guy who knows a guy" in COPA......

AeroDiaz
according to the information we are reading here.....

I´m only telling the truth :yuk: :eek: :ok:

P.s.
AeroDiaz
(the third quote on your post is not even mine!)

Schickfuss
try you to get a job in Spain
the "españolitos" are finishing their duty
until this "scum" leaves the countr

AeroDiaz
Schickfuss, Willkommen an Bord!!! :D :ok:

:mad:

[chock2chock]

Anyway, back on track .... information I got from Human Resources last week, It is current and Accurate:

1) Copa is a Multinational Crew operated company

2) Official minimums 500 hours ICAO License (No preference of origin JAA FAA...etc) English Minimum Level 4 ICAO

3)Main Priority is hiring Panamanians for now. But in the coming years they would not discount the fact that they may need to hire foreigners

4) With their latest Aircraft order they expect to recieve on avreage of 5 a/c per year from 2012

5) Agreement with American Flyers has atthis moment not been renewed.... no knowledge of wether it will be in the future.

[AeroDiaz]

Chock2chock: :D I knew that my source was good!. Check this out: American Flyers - Programa Primer Oficial de COPA Airlines (http://staging.americanflyers.net/About/copa_form.htm)
Thanks and keep in touch. Now to keep the flow of good info on this forum:

- What are the requirements for a license convalidation in Panama?. How long does the process take?. Costs?.

- Now we know that COPA does not give preference to any foreign license in particular. How about the Authority?. Is the convalidation process faster for holders of a license issued in a latinamerican country?. I already asked this questions to the authority but I haven´t received a reply.

- Could someone tell me if the form found on this link: Autoridad Aeronautica Civil (http://www.aeronautica.gob.pa/index.php?option=verif) is the one to start the convalidation process?. Is this the first step?, Am I missing something?.

Meanwhile, I´ll be updating my resume in COPAs HR website. Recursos Humanos - Copaair.com (http://www.copaair.com/Sites/CC/es/Acerca-de-Copa-Airlines/Pages/Recursos-Humanos.aspx)


DÍAZ

[delsur]

Serguramente ustedes no son de Panama, para que sepan el resentimiento es para con todas las nacionalidades


si consiguen pasar los examenes,

welcome to the club!

[Airliner777]

AeroDiaz you have a PM. :)

[Almendrudo]

Delsur,
I know some panama pilots. Like the song says
" We All Know That People Are The Same Where Ever We Go
There Is Good And Bad In Ev'ryone,
We Learn To Live, We Learn To Give
Each Other What We Need To Survive Together Alive."
If you go to middle east you will be an expat.
Boundaries are for countries not for people.

[AeroDiaz]

Just to keep the fire alive...


http://www.sipac-panama.com/web/ (http://www.sipac-panama.com/web/)

Conferencia de Prensa SIPAC
El pasado 12 de junio se efectuó una conferencia de Prensa en el local del SIPAC, a la cual asistieron medios escritos, radiales y televisivos al local del SIPAC, donde los miembros de la Junta Directiva, denunciaron una vez más a la Autoridad de Aeronáutica Civil (AAC), ya que esta institución por medio de sus representantes legales realizaron una modificación al RAC, que permite a los Pilotos Extranjeros convalidar sus licencias por medio de la página web y obtener permiso para laborar en nuestro país, perjudicando a decenas de pilotos Panameños que están desempleados.



Díaz

[Immigrant]

A juicio de los pilotos las plazas laborales son ocupadas por extranjeros, situación que les preocupa, ya que cada vez las oportunidades se reducen y hay más aviadores panameños sin empleo......

Pilotos panameos se reunen con Director General de la AAC. - Autoridad Aeronautica Civil (http://www.aeronautica.gob.pa/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=683&Itemid=2)

================================
Pilotos de Panamá, sin opción para volar

140 pilotos nacionales están desempleados, dice Sipac. Aeronáutica indica que esto se debe a la calidad de los

prensa.com Panamá - Economía y Negocios (http://mensual.prensa.com/mensual/contenido/2009/08/08/hoy/negocios/1880227.asp)

And so on..... :hmm:
So you feel now how it "smells" here for ANY Exp. Pilot....ANY :rolleyes:

[AeroDiaz]

There must be a reason why they are not getting the jobs. :ugh: So let the company decide who are they going to hire. As simple as that.

DÍAZ

[Panama Jack]

I am not certain about that it is as simple as that AeroDíaz, but I would agree with you in saying that probably a number of those pilots are unemployable. A valid source of ire for Panamanian pilots is the Spanish-pilot fiasco, where COPA was essentially selling jobs to low-time European pilots who were willing to spend significant cash to get a jet job.

In any event, I feel that it is not Aeronautica Civil in any country who should determine who can work as a pilot. Instead, this is (and should be) the responsibility of the Labor and Immigration autorities of the concerned country.

[AeroDiaz]

PJ,

"Unemployable pilots", you hit the nail on the head.

I agree with you in saying that the Pilots Union should be addressing their demands to the Immigration autorities. But don´t you think that the airline has the right to choose who are they going to hire?.
IMHO this is not a matter of nationality but a matter of the need for "employable pilots" who have some experience and are willing to work hard to maintain a good balance of responsabilities in the cockpit.
I´d like to know your thoughts about this. Having a low timer flying with you a heavy (if we can call a 737 NG a heavy). Technology is making most things idiot-proof, but I think you still need to have some "callo" to fly a steel dragon. I´m still working on mine BTW.


DÍAZ

[Panama Jack]

In principle, AeroDíaz, I agree with airlines being able to choose the pilots who they want. In the part of the Middle East known as the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries, almost all of the airlines have fueled their growth thanks to expatriate labor-- it simply would not have been possible if they had to depend only on local resources. I am a benefactor of this policy.

I do understand the political concerns surrounding this issue. About 1/3rd of the world's merchant ship fleet in crewed by Filipino seamen. Their popularity is due to a number of reasons including, unfortunately, low salary expectations. A large percentage of the rest of the crew come from other countries with "competitive" salaries.

Economically speaking, these type of salaries often reflect the supply vs. demand curve. In response, most countries worldwide have set up barriers in their immigration laws to restrict labor migration from countries where salary expectations are low. Ironically, some of the most restrictive laws are in the countries which have very little to offer-- and this more often than not hurts their chances for economic growth. One example of a country that does this and which you might have heard of, Aerodiaz, is Nicaragua.

Often the countries that do this envision private enterprise budgeting for the training of local personnel to suitably qualify them. For better or for worse, companies and their investors tend to be a thrifty lot and the competitive environment is a ruthless one-- where every dollar needs to be carefully spent. Additionally, the training of a "0" time cadet to being Captain qualified on a jet (not just in terms of minimum time for licenses and ratings, but also acceptable to insurance in terms of amount and quality of hours flown) takes at least 4-5 years-- proof that pilots are highly skilled labor. Changes in the airline industry tend to happen much faster than that and when no suitable employees are available, an airline cannot start-up or grow. Imagine the challenges a small-sized upstart carrier would face in a country like Nicaragua if it wanted to commence operations with a half-dozen Boeing 737NG's and were restricted to allowing foreign personnel only for a 6 month period?

The difference between what COPA has done and what Qatar Airways does is that COPA hired pilots with few qualifications-- the most impressive qualification was their willingness to shell out a large sum of money. For any business owner, the only thing better than finding free (or volunteer) labor is labor that will pay you. On the other hand, Qatar Airways has been successfully fishing qualified cockpit crew from other airlines-- and they still face a tough selection process in spite of thousands of hours in Airbuses or Boeings.

I have had my own "memorable" experiences with one of the Panamanian pilot unions. Unfortunately, there are people there who create their own problems. While I agree with the philosophy that we are trying to create careers, not jobs, many unions worldwide have shown themselves to be out of touch with airline economic realities.

Perhaps in time this will change. After all, haven't a number of Panamanian pilots gone to work the cockpits in India, the Middle East, and China?

[AeroDiaz]

A very good friend of mine who´s flying Caravans in Nicaragua just received a call from COPA :eek:...That´s all the info I´ve got. I haven´t been able to reach him to get more details. :suspect:

Has anybody else received this magic call recently?

Good luck PRIX!

DÍAZ