Share your first job hunt experience

[pilotho]

Hello all,

I have basically finished ATPL training at a pretty rough time in the industry and would like to see how others are coping or have coped in the past in getting their first job.

I have seen numerous vacancies in the Far East but all require extensive experience and is therefore unavailable to me. I am wondering why they are not being filled though?

I have been active in going to companies and meeting the team, trying to increase my contacts list and registering myself to airlines. I am trying to think outside the box and the only thing so far is to work in other departments for airlines. Get my foot in the door seems to be the most important thing at the moment. I knew finding my first job would be the hardest part of an airline pilot's career not the IRT.

I always live by "perseverance + determination = success" though.

[Karel1]

Hi I'm almost finished my practiacal CPL and am studying for my ATPL. What type of practical flying experience do you have? Have you tried flight instructing? General aviation charter companies? I don't know, the UK might be different but in Australia it's common to complete all the theory subjects and a practical CPL,IFR and multiple engine endorsement. The ATPL theory is held frozen until such time as you have enough practical experience to fly an aircraft which rquires this license. Most pilots after completing these initial professional qualifications will either train further for an instructer rating where they will very likely get some sort of work. The hours will be limited and the pay not too good but if they hang around long enough things get better and it's a great stepping stone to bigger and better things. The most common option is to go into the country ie north of Western Australia where there are many Charter companies who fly tourists around or workers to mine sites. This is what I will do. It helps to know people yes, no doubt this is the biggest challenge but I feel that if I persist, am prepared to go anywhere and am prepared to accept poor working conditions I will get that first job and so will you!!! I think the most imortant thing is to be realistic about what you can do and don't expect too much at first. When you go for your second job you can tick yes in the experience colum and at the end of the day that is all that matters in your first job.

[pilotho]

hi there,

i am actually thinking about looking for a job in australia but is there vacancies out there? it would be quite a big step going to another country looking for a job but if there is an opportunity, i would be on the next flight out.

i am not too sure about instructing because i don't think i will make a very good instructor. i had troubles teaching my brother to drive so teaching someone to fly could be a challenge!

[redsnail]

pilotho,

As one who worked in the Kimberley region of Australia for a number of years it's not that easy to get work there.

However, before you consider shifting to Australia there's the little matter of visas and licences. Both need to be in place before you can work in Australia.
The flying is great fun though. Hard work but really great fun.

However, if I were you and no solid reason to stay put in the UK or even Europe I would seriously look at Africa or the Caribbean. Those two locations have taken low houred Europeans in the past. How you sort the visa and licence issue out is another thing, one I am not familiar with.

[Karel1]

Yes it would be a big step for you and it is difficult to say how easy it would be for you here because different people have different experiences. I can't compare with the UK and you haven't told me your qalifications but I think your best chance is with a Charter company which operates aircraft under 600kg eg C310. The other things you must consider is that the locations are extrmely remote and nothing like europe. It is normal for temps to be over 45C and you will be operating out of remote unsealed airstrips navigating VFR in many cases over featureless country, it's not about follow the needle in Australia. Accomodation is an issue too because the small mining towns have a shortage the prices are extreme $1000 a week for a 3 bedroom house. Obviously you would share or the company you work for might help but it's something to think about. And the last thing is visa requirements Australia makes it difficult in this area if you want to work so do your homework. If you do choose Australia go to North WA or maybe outback Queensland where the mining is, think country not city for your first job and be prepared to hang around and annoy as many CFI's as you can it will eventually pay off. One of my friends up north told me there was a serious pilot shortage about 18 months and there was even an article about it in Royal Aero Club of WA magazine. Not sure what the situation is now but it wouldn't be much worse I imagine as the global slowdown hasn't impacted Australia as badly as the rest of the world. Remember these jobs are not the pilots dream but they are a foot in the door and realisticly your best chance. I know the US has a large GA industry as I've been to Texas a few times. What's europe like? I was born in the Czech Republic and am lucky to hold an EU passport too but it seems to me (maybe incorrectly) that aviation industry in europe is more heavy RPT and cargo at busy airports and congested airways in almost always controlled airspace. In Perth you can do an approach at Perth international airport for a $50 fee and then fly to Jandakot which is a GA airport 10NM away. To hire a single engine CESSNA 172 with an instructor will cost you about $260 an hour or $180 solo. Up north you will almost always be flying OCA even with restricted VHF com haha. If you have your JAA theory subjects they will be held in higher regard in OZ but it always comes down to practical experience and who you know. Good luck.

[Karel1]

How long ago did you work in WA? I'm interestd myself as all I go by is what people in general say. About 18 months ago I was told by a mate that 2 pilots left his company to do bigger and better things and that there was actually a shortage for a while. Obviously things change like the wind as does the economy. Tell me how did you find your first job? what do you do now?

[Karel1]

There is a lot for you to think about when considering a move I agree with redsnail but GA is probably the best option no matter where you go and I'm not sure that europe would have a large GA indusry willing to take on low hour pilots.

[redsnail]

Europe's GA industry is comparatively small. It is pretty quiet right now but I am sure there's something going on somewhere.
GA in Europe ranges from parachute operations, banner towing, flight instructing, charter, medivac and business jets.

I worked in the Kimberley from 1994 to 1998.
I did 2 years at Alligator Airways in Kununurra and then 2 years in Broome doing Coastwatch.

I shifted up to Kununurra in February 1994 and got lucky with a hangar rat job for Skywest. I washed Twotters, Bandierantes and C402s, also cleaned the hangar and offices. I was sharing a clapped out manky caravan with a mate who was also looking for work.
4 months after moving up there, I got lucky and got a job with AA. Started on the mighty C206, C207 and the C210. The year later, eventually got on the Partenavia.
That gave me just enough experience to get into Surv Australia to fly their Islanders looking for stuff.

Many moves later I am in the UK flying a Hawker 800XPC for NetJets Europe. :ok:

[Karel1]

I hope that all aspiring airline pilots who have the minimum hours to hold a CPL and ATPL pass have read this thread. The road you took is the most probably way us new pilots will ever get our hands on a real jet. Tell me if I'm wrong but a SIM can't kill you or anybody else and there is no financial risk to the operator. The real thing is a little bit different yes? So how did you end up with that first job with Alligator Airways? How many logged hours did you have on a real aircraft before any operator would consider training you on a jet? Thank for your story by the way I find it real and inspiring and it sounds like the real advice we need to get ahead in aviation. It's nice to dream but there must be a real road to that dream which in most cases without some luck is very bumpy. If you can give us any more advice I'm sure we would all like to hear it.

[redsnail]

Oh my story's all over PPRuNe..

My journey took a bit longer than most because of errors I made. Instead of being defeated by my mistakes, I took stock, learned and kept going.
After Surveillance I worked for Transtate (in Cairns) flying Twotters and Bandits (great fun), then I flew a Dash 8 for Qlink for a very short time, I made 1 too many mistakes and we parted company. Then I left Australia.

I went to Kununurra with 495 hours. I got those hours through a combination of instructing and private flying.

How did I get the job? Patience, working on the airfield & getting a rep for being reliable and hard working. Researched the job, the company, the environment and the aircraft I flew. (Boss is a LAME & a pilot)

Answered the questions correctly at the interview and didn't stuff up the check ride.

The sim is always harder to fly than the real thing, you actually want that.

The bizjet's brilliant. I love it. I've been flying it now for over 4 years. No day's the same. :ok:

As for getting work. Well, the path I took is a very familiar one in Australia. Zero to Hero (ie straight to jets) is still rare in Australia.

[G SXTY]

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/333092-zero-hours-airline-pilot-my-story.html

IMHO, the most important factors in getting your first job are:

(1) Good timing (which is probably 30% planning / 70% luck)

(2) Contacts

(3) Determination / refusal to give up.

All of which are far more important than which school you went to.

[IrishJetdriver]

Determination and luck, and there had to be some jobs around.

2 years without a sniff then got direct entry 146 at Flybe in a weekend. 3hrs after job offer I was on the way to the crew hotel prior to starting the TR the next day. Whole class of 6 was the same. Email to boss in London saying I wouldn't be coming back.

Prior to that just called twice weekly to head of personnel as had his DD number. Got on 1st name terms, even just popped in on the way past which was a 400 mile round trip "pop in" but well worth it.

Got lucky with a jet command 1.5yrs before I could have expected it and then got lucky with Ryanair when they were paying for everything and got a direct entry command on the 73 even though I never flew one before.

The jobs had to be there for this to work though. if they're not there then it's tough. get your name & face known so when it does start to pick up then your name might spring to mind first. On top of that keep current. There's no point being top of the pile if you then make a horlicks of the interview or sim.

[Karel1]

thanks for your stories, it's interesting to hear the different ways you all got into aviation and the one thing all of you have in common is hard work and determination and maybe just that little bit of luck!!!

[Karel1]

Amazing story thanks for sharing it, sounds very close to home. I'm at about the stage where you were getting divorced, I hope I end up where you have. You worked hard and desrve it.

Good Luck

[juniour jetset]

My mate's story, Military though. Only started his multi engine training in mid 2005 and is now a captain on Tristars based at Brize. He certainly went from the training aircraft to the left hand seat of a wide bodied jet fairly quickly? Very calm and switched on guy.

[INNflight]

The imho truly amazing part is that "getting that first job" goes along with "how did you get your fATPL" in the question book.

No matter how many pilots you ask, for a thousand people you'll get a thousand possible ways to get it done. Very fascinating to see how people get into it and try to climb the ladder. Keep them coming everyone! :ok:

[Mrmoeller]

My story so far...

Civil pilot training 2003-2005. Hired by the school afterwards, initially office work but later on flying some sightseeing flights, photo flights and ferry flights. Eventually became an instructor at the same place and also started flying their taxiflights and scheduled flights on P68 and BN2B (great plane!!!)

In 2007 with about 700 hours (250 ME) got hired on a 20,8 tonne CS25 TP as an F/O WITHOUT paying anything. Sure it was 900 km from my kitchen but I was happy. About a year ago I changed seat the left one.

All good stuff..BUT - the cost of all this is time away from the real home (still 900km away) and whatever you leave behind several times a month.

Still climbing the ladder though and with a speed faster than I had hoped and wished for. (My initial goal was to be in a airline by the age of 30. I got the leftseat at 30)

Good luck!