Instructors with heavy feet

[vabsie]

Hi Again ..

As some of you might know I did my first solo about 2 weeks ago. Today, I managed to build on that with 3 solo take-offs and full-stop landings.

I have one "primary" instructor who's great. It's however totally understandble that he can't always (although he usually is) available due to personal commitments / holidays etc. This therefore gave me an opportunity to fly once with each of two other instructors (all good guys).

My question is this. When I'm asked to fly solo I find that using the rudder pedals is easy .. i.e. it does not take much effort to move them about. When I fly with an instructor (any of the ones so far) I find that it's MUCH harder.

In my mind, when the instructor says: "I have control", I usually let go of both the yoke and also take my feet off the pedals - Maybe I shouldn't?

I assume instructors therefore usually leave their feet on the pedals when they tell a student "You have control" ? Is it a safety thing?

I didn't ask this at the airfield this morning because I only really thought about it properly tonight ...

Keen to hear your thoughts thanks.

Vabsie

[chrisbl]

No we use them as foot rests. Any idea how much your ankles get tired holding your feet off the pedals.:)

[vabsie]

Hi ChrisBl ..

I did think that might have been the case .. hence the subject :)

Vabsie

[JUST-local]

chrisbl is right, it is hard work to keep your feet off the pedals for long periods of time.

I find it fairly easy when instructing on PA28, 172 etc. as there is pleanty of room by the rudder bar, the 152 or similar is a real pain (in the lower limb!). as there is no where to put your feet other than directly on the pedals.

I remember the same thing with some of my instructors, they did the same with me!
Now years later I try and keep well off the controls after I say "you have control".

Tell them you can not feel the aircraft only the pressure from them!
I would not be bothered if any of my students said this to me, give it a go.
What is the worst that can happen?

[foxmoth]

They probably do not even realise they are doing this. I fly Tiger Moths on mainly short Trial lessons so normally sort the rudders out, in the early days of this I then did a flight with a PPL, handed over control and did not even realise I was doing the rudder until I actually took my feet off and there was a large swing as a result! Now I make a positive effort to take my feet off when handing over control. Might be worth telling these instructors they are doing this.

[mad_jock]

tell them to get there feet off the sodding pedals.

I am now into day 30 with out touching the controls for the 90days I and i really hope I can beat my record of 100 days without touching anything for landing. That includes trial flights.

My mission really is to get them to trim properly and look out the sodding window.

If you do that you can get away without doing any real work with max 30 mins out of the whole ppl course with out any hands on.

[YakAngel]

Well mad jock I think you're severely limiting a student by using this teaching ethos. People also need DEMONSTRATION as well as explanation and practice when learning. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say and in the cockpit environment, demonstration = picture.

I also think the fact that you're ambition of some sort of personal record of teaching without touching the controls is just an accident waiting to happen.

To answer the original question, personally I rest my feet lightly on the rudder pedals. That way I'm not interfering and I have the benefit in that I can feel what the student is doing with them.

[mad_jock]

Nah yak are you sure its not your student that posting above.

Even lightly they feel different.

As for the rest you instruct your way and I will instruct mine. My way has worked for 20 plus PPL's and suits me and them fine.

There is a huge problem out there with instructors riding the controls and flying the plane for the student. I see it as theft

[Crash one]

I once had an extremely good looking female instructor in a 152 when the seat adjuster slipped & she found herself almost on her back, well out of reach of all controls! She did have the presence of mind not to grab the yoke! "I have control" while trying to help her to sort herself out.:O

[sandbagsteve]

I'm used to driving old cars, so maybe this is why I've never noticed my instructor's feet on the pedals, either that or he is very good at not making it obvious - even on landings I'm never really aware of any unannounced inputs. However, after only 5 hours in my logbook, it would be no surprise to feel a little rudder pursuasion, say, while we are about to touch down :)

Personally, I'd find it irritating to constantly feel any controls being driven for me while in normal flight... that's my job as a student. I'd sooner be told I'm hashing things up, so I can put it right, unless of course things are getting very big in the window, very fast :}

[Nashers]

i do agree with the heavy rudder due to the instructors feet. i only learnt about this on my first solo when i did a circut and then came to land. got the aircraft down fine, then hit the brakes as i normaly wood have and ended up pushing the rudder a bit on one side. i nearly ended up toppling the aircraft.

i did speak to my instructor about it however i found myself more conscious about the rudder when flying solo and just adjusted over the first few minutes of every flight to get use to it.

[vabsie]

Thanks for all the replies .. it's good to hear your viewpoint.

It's not a huge problem and it seems to vary a little between instructors. If my memory serves me right then it was the heaviest with the tallest instructor.

I guess I don't mind too much .. If it happens again / persists then I might just kindly ask them to keep this in mind, especially when I'm on my approach to land when I tend to use the rudder a little more.

sandbagsteve - 5 hours is a good chunk and I'm sure you would have learnt more than you think already so keep at it. Next time you do some internal checks while waiting for your instructor have a go at pushing the rudder pedals and you'll see what I mean.

Vabsie

[JohnRayner]

And now I know! Good thread this. I trained in a C-152, so I can see why it would be hard to keep your feet out of the way..

I sometimes wondered if it was my instructor forcing me to pay attention to my footwork by making the rudder less responsive.