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ORAC
7th Sep 2009, 15:48
StrategyPage: Japan Seeks A New Class Of Larger Carriers (http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnavai/articles/20090904.aspx)

September 4, 2009: Japan is now planning a second, larger class of 763 foot long, 25,000 ton aircraft carriers. How can that be? Japan's post-World War II constitution specifically forbids its navy (ah, make that, "Naval Self-Defense Force") from having aircraft carriers. Very simple, Japan has already built two "helicopter-carrying destroyers" that happen to just look like aircraft carriers. A class of "helicopter-carrying cruisers" would apparently keep the constitutional lawyers quiet.

Japan recently launched its second aircraft carrier ( the Ise) since World War II. This past March, it commissioned the first of these ships, the "helicopter-carrying destroyer" Hyuga (http://asiadefence.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/roks_dokdo_1.jpg). These are 610 foot long, 18,000 ton warships that operates up to 11 (mostly SH-60) helicopters from a full length flight deck. Although called a destroyer, it very much looks like an aircraft carrier. While its primary function is anti-submarine warfare, the Hyuga will also give Japan its first real power projection capability since 1945. The Hyuga is the largest warship built in Japan since World War II. The Japanese constitution forbids it to have aircraft carriers, which is the main reason it is called a destroyer. That, and the desire to not make the neighbors anxious. East Asian nations still have bad memories about the last time Japan had lots of aircraft carriers.

The Hyuga also has 16 Mk41 VLS (Vertical Launch System) cells for anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles. There are also two 20mm Phalanx anti-missile cannon and two triple 12.75-inch torpedo mounts. There is a crew of 350 and a top speed of about 60 kilometers. Vertical takeoff jets like the Harrier and F-35B could also operate from the Hyuga. A third Hyuga class ship is planned.

The last Japanese warship to be called the Hyuga was a World War II battleship that entered service in 1918, and was converted to a hybrid battleship/aircraft carrier in 1943. The new Hyuga will be used for peacekeeping missions as well, and for that role its many helicopters will be most useful. During World War II, there was also a Japanese battleships named Ise, which was the lead ship of a class of ships that also contained the Hyuga. Both were 35,000 ton warships, and both were sunk, in the same week, in late July 1945. The Ise was also rebuilt, during the war, as an aircraft carrier (actually a hybrid battleship/aircraft carrier.)

The Japanese are apparently quite pleased with their new carriers, and much relieved that there was not a worldwide uproar over how they circumvented their own constitution. The Japanese Navy is apparently back in the carrier business, 64 years after the last of their World War II carriers went to the bottom.

BEagle
7th Sep 2009, 16:39
Perhaps they might consider a goodwill tour of the Pacific with one of their new flat-tops? Visiting such places as a certain naval installation on Oahu.....:\? And then across the South China Sea to Singapore?

airborne_artist
7th Sep 2009, 17:55
Or they could meet up with the USN in mid-Pacific - say near Midway Island, perhaps? :ok:

chiglet
7th Sep 2009, 18:00
NO Arrester gear...
NO Catapult/Ski Jump...
NO Shars...
It's a car park.:ok:

GPMG
7th Sep 2009, 18:07
Ahh but it's Japanese isn't it, so it either turns into a 300ft tall flying, laser toteing robot. Or it's aircraft are Microscopic at 2cm wingspan, yet more capable than the F-22, it carries a wing of 12400 fighters (and that's just the lower deck).

Finnpog
7th Sep 2009, 20:37
They did make the I-400 submarine aircraft carrier (cunning chaps)...

glad rag
7th Sep 2009, 22:09
NO Arrester gear...
NO Catapult/Ski Jump...
NO Shars...
It's a car park.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

musssttt ressssisssttt.........:}

Razor61
7th Sep 2009, 22:15
Some Facts and pics of the class here:-
Hyuga Class Destoyer - Naval Technology (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/hyuga-class/)

GreenKnight121
7th Sep 2009, 22:45
Ummm... Razor61... Hyuga was only mentioned as a comparison... the article (and thread) are about Japan's planned NEW class which will be significantly larger than the Hyuga class.


And Strategypage has it wrong (as usual)...
Japan's constitution makes NO mention whatsoever of aircraft carriers!

Here is the only part of the Constitution which mentions military matters:
CHAPTER II: RENUNCIATION OF WAR

Article 9:

Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. 2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

THE CONSTITUTION OF JAPAN (http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Japan/English/english-Constitution.html)

welchbloke
7th Sep 2009, 22:51
So any suggestions for the new class name? I'd go with Taiho or Shokaku myself ;)

racedo
7th Sep 2009, 23:10
New class name

Sea Bed

Cos if they get belligerent thats where it will be

ORAC
8th Sep 2009, 08:02
Confirmation of new class: new helicopter carrier part of defense budget (http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20090901p2a00m0na012000c.html)

The Ministry of Defense released its 4.85-trillion-yen budget plan for the next fiscal year on Monday, including provisions for upgrading the nation's missile defense system and purchasing a new helicopter carrier..........

As well as missile defense, the ministry plans to purchase a new helicopter carrier for the Maritime Self-Defense Force, based on the Hyuga-class helicopter destroyer. The new 116.6-billion-yen carrier will be 25 percent longer than the Hyuga, capable of carrying nine helicopters that can conduct operations simultaneously. In addition, it will a have limited naval resupply capability, and as well as antisubmarine operations -- in light of the Chinese Navy's recent submarine construction. The new carrier will also be able to take part in disaster relief and U.N. peacekeeping activities.....

Double Zero
8th Sep 2009, 10:32
Since my last post was apparently deleted by the Mod's, I'll try a 'OOlite' version.

BTW Double Zero stands for Dastardly & Muttley's car...

We British of course used ' Through Deck Cruiser, ASW ' as a euphanism for small aircraft carrier a while ago.

I personally took pictures when a VIP bunch of Japanese expressed interest in the Sea Harrier & especially the Sea Eagle anti-ship
missile ( way above Exocet capabilities at that time ).

They then expressed serious interest in the Harrier II / AV-8B, which I would think only the 2+ with a bit of wiring & software would suit.

Still hardly a peace-keeping helicopter ship.

As Homer Simpson's dad put it, " I haven't been so relaxed since I was on lookout duty at Pearl Harbour " !

Due to the treatment of prisoners, men & women, I avoid buying anything made in Japan unless there's no choice.

Orange Poodle
8th Sep 2009, 16:55
Interesting - 116.6bn yen is £770m, which is significantly cheaper that the £3.9bn for QE and PoW, even taking size into account.

OP

Double Zero
8th Sep 2009, 19:43
If you think yen versus £, $,decency, and torture & rape is on your side, do please consider me your enemy.

pr00ne
8th Sep 2009, 20:46
Doublenuts,

Oh please grow up!

It was 70 years ago.

If the whole world took your narrow minded blinkered attitude to history then this country, thanks to the antics of our Empire building ancestors, would be the most isolated disliked nation on the planet.

Flyingblind
8th Sep 2009, 21:16
Looks like Carriers are the new black, what with the Brazilians, Chinese, Indians, French and now Japanese back in the club.

Interesting times.

Wheres BranchFanatic?

racedo
8th Sep 2009, 21:58
Looks like Carriers are the new black, what with the Brazilians, Chinese, Indians, French and now Japanese back in the club.


All these carriers floating around, seems like some people are preparing for a war.

althenick
8th Sep 2009, 22:21
Wonder when they'll get their first SSBN ;)

Double Zero
9th Sep 2009, 14:13
It seems they aleady have SSBN's;

and as for the childish mention a few posts ago attacking me, bring it on, let's talk in public !